Do you have a blacklist for live casinos, wizard?
This is only my opinion, perhaps the Wizard feels otherwise but if you are going to place a live casino on this list for one of the transgressions you mention you better come "correct" like with plenty of evidence in hand.
1) It is based strictly on policies that are either illegal or certainly questionable in most circumstances
2) It is not based on one person's experience, but rather a collection of experiences
3) Unless a special circumstance, it cannot reflect an entire chain of casinos (i.e. CET, Penn)
Unfortunately, I think this would prove to be a fruitless effort. Outside some loosely regulated jurisdictions, most casinos operate under strict guidelines where any of the above would call to question the right to operate a gaming license.
What might be more helpful would be a "greylist." This would be a list of casinos where people have had negative experiences with staff consistently, but not necessarily illegal. This could serve as more of a warning to patrons, kind of like Yelp! or Angie's List. I certainly have a few casinos that I would put on that list, but they aren't doing anything wrong...
Quote: TiltpoulI think the idea of a live casino "blacklist" is very intriguing, but there would have to be a few caveats:
1) It is based strictly on policies that are either illegal or certainly questionable in most circumstances
2) It is not based on one person's experience, but rather a collection of experiences
3) Unless a special circumstance, it cannot reflect an entire chain of casinos (i.e. CET, Penn)
Unfortunately, I think this would prove to be a fruitless effort. Outside some loosely regulated jurisdictions, most casinos operate under strict guidelines where any of the above would call to question the right to operate a gaming license.
What might be more helpful would be a "greylist." This would be a list of casinos where people have had negative experiences with staff consistently, but not necessarily illegal. This could serve as more of a warning to patrons, kind of like Yelp! or Angie's List. I certainly have a few casinos that I would put on that list, but they aren't doing anything wrong...
That brings up an intereting point.....can we create an Angies list for casinos? Is there one?
Quote: NeutrinoI just saw this in the general forums
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/17169-family-sues-harrahs-for-assault-using-security-video/4/#post332346
I would believe even without a blacklist, something like illegal assault is something that should be warned to the world.
There is nothing illegal about what happened in AC Harrah's.....yet.
EDIT: This just stands to my earlier post. If you accuse a casino of doing something illegal you had better have solid proof......and tbh this isn't a legal website, it is a gambling website.
You can absolutely have an opinion about an issue with a casino but your original transgressions seemed "intuitively" serious to me, is all and therefore I built my replies based thereon.
Quote: NeutrinoThat can't be true, I urge you once again to read the online casino blacklist. If you say the wiz isn't releasing a live casino blacklist because he doesn't want lawyers from live casinos up his butt, why was he ok to do it with online casinos?
Why did he release the blacklist for online casinos? What was the content of his discourse with them? What did he "accuse" them of doing?
If you come on here and say FOR EXAMPLE...."Harrah's Laughlin just stole my laptop out of my room, I saw the maid with it and they refuse to help me!!! Harrah's Laughlin is a thieving property".
What the Wizard had done was analyze each online casino for authenticity, accuracy, dependability and fairness. If any of the casinos had an issue with him he would merely show them the proof of his work.
Following from the example above. Do you have a conviction on Harrah's Laughlin to prove they are theives? Was there even a court case or was it simply your opinion?
Can you see how one can be defamation and the other a factual report?
Quote: NeutrinoWhy can't that be done in a similar manner with live casinos?
For example, both online and live casino slots are regulated. Yet, the wizard for example found a case where the supposedly "double up or none" in one online casino was actually around 35%, hence a cheat by system programming.
How do we know that doesn't happen at a live casino?
Because online casinos in far off places are unregulated (the ones he investigated). Live casinos are heavily regulated by the respective gaming commissions.
Most importantly the online casinos have the play logs readily available and can be analyzed. This is most definitely not the case with a live casino.
Otherwise I'm sure the Wizard can answer your questions. Perhaps I have tried to be too protective of the casinos. Maybe there is a way of doing this and you are right.
Thanks
Quote: NeutrinoThat can't be true, I urge you once again to read the online casino blacklist.?
I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand. Why in the world would the Wizard or anybody else put themselves at risk legally over a silly blacklist? They would have absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose.
Quote: Beethoven9thWhy in the world would the Wizard or anybody else put themselves at risk legally over a silly blacklist? They would have absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose.
whatever his reason is, he already done it for online casinos, so... the question here is more of "why not" than "why".
Quote: Beethoven9thI don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand. Why in the world would the Wizard or anybody else put themselves at risk legally over a silly blacklist? They would have absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose.
I think the confusion starts with the existence of a blacklist for online casinos. It's written and maintained by the Wizard. What additional legal risk is there in maintaining a similar list for land-based casinos? Sure, the necessary data would be hard to come by. And, land-based casinos are regulated while online casinos are not, so many of the issues with online-casinos are not present in their brick-and-mortar siblings. But, I really don't see what legal issues come from pointing out publicly available info about B&M casino shenanigans. For example, a factual recounting of Revel's summer dealings is pretty damning. So is the Venetian's rigged giveaway from several years ago. So is the info about any number of casinos that intentionally mis-play card games (failing to pay the bonus on a folded UTH hand, requiring an "optional" bonus on TCP...)
Quote: Neutrinowhatever his reason is, he already done it for online casinos, so... the question here is more of "why not" than "why".
Nope, not at all. Most people have heard of MGM, Harrah's, etc. and know what to expect when they gamble at these places. But John Doe's Online Casino that just opened up last week? That's a different story.
Maybe it's a language thing, I don't know you or what nationality you are or whether English is your first language... But when you phrase a request "Well can't the Wizard at least do this." It comes across in a way you probably (I'd hope) don't intend it to.
Quote: NeutrinoIn your logic it's like going to MGM/harrahs expecting them to be fair because they have a big name, and get cheated.
So far, you're the only one here who's paranoid about getting cheated by MGM & Harrah's.
+1Quote: michael99000These posts are almost taking a tone as though the Wizard owes it to you that he do this, or that he's obligated to just because he did something else similar.
That's exactly the impression I got too.
Quote: NeutrinoIt's ok man, I wouldn't say you're too protective of the casinos (unless you own one... then it's different xD). You just seem to be really firm on your belief that casinos are heavily regulated, therefore they can't get away with illegal things.
And perhaps I'm too paranoid. I just turned 21 recently and started to take researching gambling seriously. Unfortunately for me one of the first things i read was http://www.thebeargrowls.com/. I believe that site to be quite biased against the casinos especially since nobody else seem to have as much problems as people of that site did with the casinos. Despite realizing it was probably extreme cases, I think it had quite a psychological impact on me to create my paranoia.
Which was why I wanted to hear the wiz's opinion on it, since he did a really excellent job with the online blacklist. Unfortunately he doesn't have one.
Perhaps the truth is somewhere in between? I don't think any police/gaming regulation is 100% non-corrupt, but yet, I still believe they are probably good casinos and regulations out there.
Here is my point. In your OP you did not only mention the legality of games or the fariness of the odds they pay or the randomness of their games, you mentioned Assault, no honoring payouts, illegal detainment, affiliation with gangs and so on and so forth.........
Those things mentioned fall well outside of the scope of a gaming mathematician or game analyst.
That was moreover my point.........
Quote: NeutrinoSo I'm guess you're the sort of player that plays -EV for entertainment?
In other words i'm saying anyone serious about gambling for profit would care about this more than you do
Anyone serious about gambling for profit already has access to this info and doesn't need the Wizard to make a public "blacklist".
Quote: NeutrinoProbably you're right, I just started researching and have a long ways to go.
That's fair enough. Anyway, there's lots of great info on these forums, and I'm sure you'll find the type of info you're looking for. Good luck at the tables too!
It would be near-professional suicide for the Wiz to publicize an endorsed/avoid list. He's more like Consumer Reports, and this site is the raw data collector of thousands of people's experiences. He needs to remain independent and autonomous to do his job, which he's previously described as a player advocate for fair and open gaming.
Quote: WizardNo white- or blacklist of land casinos from me. I certainly like some more than others but they are all a shade of grey.
Geez, Neutrino... The Wiz ANSWERED your question in the above post.
Quote: BuzzardI read somewhere that The Venetian is Mike's favorite casino. Seems he once spent a lot of time there.
I've read that he works with them (it's on the hotel review here. Classy to put it on there to avoid any aspersions of doubt), but I've never heard favorite.
Quote: geoffI've read that he works with them (it's on the hotel review here. Classy to put it on there to avoid any aspersions of doubt), but I've never heard favorite.
He used to be employed by The Venetian and it did not end as well as it could have.
Quote: Mission146He used to be employed by The Venetian and it did not end as well as it could have.
Is there a story with this?
Quote: NeutrinoIs there a story with this?
Wizard's blog post about it.
There weren't a lot of details because of the confidentiality agreement he signed. It was all very mysterious considering the Wizard's respected position and accomplishments in the world of gaming math.
Quote: AcesAndEightsWizard's blog post about it.
There weren't a lot of details because of the confidentiality agreement he signed. It was all very mysterious considering the Wizard's respected position and accomplishments in the world of gaming math.
Was wondering, and perhaps the Wiz could comment. Was the confidenciality clause to run in perpetiuty or was it only for a period of time such as a non-compete?
You are better off anyway. What if they made you move to Macau?!!??!?!?!?
