BenJammin
BenJammin
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April 11th, 2010 at 8:37:09 AM permalink
I've been reading the Wizard's casino reviews, which are very interesting. One thing I've seemed to notice is that casinos seem to be tightening up on their comps for play.

So, my question is: Which casinos in Las Vegas are still generous to mid and high level players as far as comping the rooms and food.

Seems to me, especially downtown, they smart thing to do would be to reward players more than anybody as far as paying the room charges with the level of play You are talking about in your reviews. I mean $175 a pass with a line bet on every decision, at the Fitz? They ought to roll out the red carpet and bring out a brass band.
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FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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April 11th, 2010 at 9:16:22 AM permalink
Quote: BenJammin

I mean $175 a pass with a line bet on every decision, at the Fitz? They ought to roll out the red carpet and bring out a brass band.


If the line bet is five dollars and odds are 3x4x5x, how do you arrive at 175 for an average bet?

I would imagine the casino would not rent that brass band but would instead use the money for their long-term gamblers with the higher levels of card use.

As to some places being stingy, well perhaps so but allowing considerable time to elapse prior to approaching a host might give their computers time to catch up with the gambler's play.
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 11th, 2010 at 9:50:15 AM permalink
Quote: BenJammin

I mean $175 a pass with a line bet on every decision, at the Fitz? They ought to roll out the red carpet and bring out a brass band.



Sorry if I didn't make my point clear in my Fitz review. I made a $10 don't pass or don't come bet on every roll, and backed up each one with $60 on the odds. They put me down for an average bet of $175, which is about right. They rate on the odds at the Fitz, which lowers the points earned per dollar bet.

The answer to the question about who is generous comping medium to high level players is a major thrust of my reviews.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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April 11th, 2010 at 8:16:14 PM permalink
Harrah's has taken a few shots from different posters, but I feel I have gotten more than a fair shake (in Vegas, that is. In Tunica,MS I feel they are very stingy).
I play $10 PL, with full odds (which don't count). I will then place $34 to $80 inside, and will press every other roll or so. I will also tip the dealers quite frequently, and I will only play where I am staying. I will play for long stretches of time, sometimes playing right into the next morning if the dice are cooperative. I generally am rated around $170 avg bet, which is probably on the higher side of my actual play. I have never gotten Diamond in a Day (3,500 pts), but I have racked up 3,000 points in a day 3 times (RIO twice, Paris once).

My average trip to Vegas is 5 days, 3x a year, and I have not paid for a room since 2007. Granted, I have had a good run, getting a lot of playing time on a limited bank roll, which has helped give me long hours of play. I tip minimum of 25% on all bills. (I think it helps give the host a reason to stretch the amount they give you.)

RIO has been the most generous. I paid for our group's meal at Voodoo Steak Lounge ($350), and RIO picked up that plus another $100 in poolside liquor. I also had another $200 or so in food comp'd that trip. And, as a bonus, I won $3600 the last hour before we left, on a single hot roll.
Paris has comp'd me quite a bit in food each trip, and one trip when we had 7 people in our group, they comp'd us a limo to the airport, although we didn't know it was a comp at the time.

The last trip we stayed at Ceasar's, but that was a mistake. I don't play high enough to be there (I'd say you need to be in the $500 avg bet range to get much attention). Late in the trip I broke my rule and played in Paris, but I got a terrible rating for my play there too. It was almost like they knew I was not staying there this time.

To net it out, I feel the important factors for getting comp'd are:
1. Play where you stay.
2. Tip the dealers (the Pit needs to see you are doing it).
3. Discussing your rating with the Pit may sometimes get you a bit of improvement.
4. Bet within your bankroll, and be willing to play 6-8 hours a day to get extra credit.
5. Tip generously on charges going against your room. You will have to pay for all tips, but I believe the host will be more favorable with you, if you have been sweet with the staff.


Be aware that you may end up spending more on tips and added time on games, trying to get comp'd, than what the comps are actually worth. In other words, you are once again playing another negative expectation game.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 11th, 2010 at 9:00:50 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

5. Tip generously on charges going against your room. You will have to pay for all tips, but I believe the host will be more favorable with you, if you have been sweet with the staff.



Good post, thanks.

I assume you're saying to write the tip on the bill, as opposed to tipping in cash. I've always heard that the waitstaff prefer to be tipped in cash, because somehow the casino will report the non-cash tips to the IRS. So I usually follow that, and tip in cash. However, if it makes me look like stingy tipper when it comes to check out time, I'll reconsider doing that.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
FleaStiff
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April 12th, 2010 at 5:25:53 AM permalink
>Play where you stay.
Agreed. You can charge things there more easily. If you want to take a short nap such as after a large meal its easier. If you have a favorite place that you want to play... make your room reservation there.
>Tip the dealers (the Pit needs to see you are doing it).
Well, Floor or Pit or whatever. Yes. It has to happen and it also has to be noticed as having happened. The crew is happy. The Box will know what is going on. Somebody will be more likely to get that information into the computer. Its nice when the dealers realize that you are aware they work on tips, but when that Floor realizes that you are tipping then it can get into the computer as a favorable "plus". It certainly will never hurt you.
>Discussing your rating with the Pit may sometimes get you a bit of improvement.
I've heard about this but never done it. Its probably just as well since I can't even figure out what is meant by average bet. I wouldn't know if their records were correct or not, since my betting is often erratic.
>Bet within your bankroll, and be willing to play 6-8 hours a day to get extra credit.
Yes. The casino often considers TIME at the table to be the major factor. Its really significant when their "meter" trips over to 4.00 hours. That seems to be a biggie! No one should ever really play for comps but it would seem foolish to walk away from a craps table just prior to that meter turning over.
>Tip generously on charges going against your room.
>You will have to pay for all tips, but I believe the host will be more favorable with you ... .
Places like The Venetian will list your tips separately but will pick them up as well, so you don't have to pay the tips, but I would be both reasonable and generous with tips. Some places do only comp the actual charge but not the tip. Being generous is good because it demonstrates that you have additional discretionary funds and that means the casino will want to keep you happy. It makes them think that your happiness is a good investment for them.
mantic59
mantic59
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April 12th, 2010 at 7:47:51 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

>Tip the dealers (the Pit needs to see you are doing it).
Well, Floor or Pit or whatever. Yes. It has to happen and it also has to be noticed as having happened. The crew is happy. The Box will know what is going on. Somebody will be more likely to get that information into the computer. Its nice when the dealers realize that you are aware they work on tips, but when that Floor realizes that you are tipping then it can get into the computer as a favorable "plus". It certainly will never hurt you.


Wait, what? Someone keys into the tracking system that a player is "nice" or "tips well" or some other non-action-related info? Don't take this comment as snarky but...why should they care (in terms of being rated)?

(For the record, I always try to be pleasant and engaging to the dealer, tipping with "dealer plays" action during a session with a final toke as I get up from the table. BTW, T minus 30 days to Vegas!)
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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April 12th, 2010 at 7:59:27 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Good post, thanks.

I assume you're saying to write the tip on the bill, as opposed to tipping in cash. I've always heard that the waitstaff prefer to be tipped in cash, because somehow the casino will report the non-cash tips to the IRS. So I usually follow that, and tip in cash. However, if it makes me look like stingy tipper when it comes to check out time, I'll reconsider doing that.



Interesting point Wizzard. In restaurants I have been told if you leave no tip on a credit card, the IRS 'assumes' cash tip, and the wait staff has to pay as if it was 10%. I usually do 12% on cc and some cash as a GIFT to my new friend.

I have never considered the effects on the servers in Vegas when all of the tip goes on the room charge. That does make for a new dilemma. High tip on room charge makes me look like a good guy to the host, but 10% on room charge and 15% in cash makes me look like a good guy to the server.......
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
boymimbo
boymimbo
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April 12th, 2010 at 8:10:10 AM permalink
Old player systems probably only kept track of the player, money in, money out, and the average bet. It would be up to the pit boss to determine the discretionary comp based on tipping.

In today's world, Player tracking systems by Konami and Bally are much more sophisticated in that the quality of the player is tracked. For example, at the Paris, they record the clothes that you have on to quickly recognize you in case you move. At the Wynn, they haev your scanned driver's license picture that comes up when your card is scanned. So tips are probably recorded if the pit sees you do it.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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April 12th, 2010 at 8:48:47 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff


I've heard about this but never done it. Its probably just as well since I can't even figure out what is meant by average bet. I wouldn't know if their records were correct or not, since my betting is often erratic.



This one is not real easy to pull off. For craps, I have found it works best to strike up conversations with the box and the Pit whenever there is a bit of a lull. Connecting with people usually makes them want to help you. Anything that is non work related. Then when you leave you can ask what they recorded for length of time and avg bet size. This answer should be straight-forward and fairly exact. If you know you got there at 9:00 PM, and it is 12:30 AM, and they have you logged for 3 hours, ask why it isn't 3.5 hours. I've had the box tell me he docked me .5 hours because there were a number of rolls I did not play at all (cold table, or perhaps some severe drunks played for a bit and I decided to only watch.) If your avg bet sounds low, ask how they calculated that. ALWAYS ALWAYS be polite. I don't know if they can do much to change your rating for the session just played, but it can help your next session. I have had the box tell me on my second session that he was being generous to make up for what I felt was a low rating earlier by him.
Don't be afraid to ask a few questions. You need to ask specific questions, and you likely won't get real solid answers. You'll get some semi-vague responses, but usually you will get at least one nugget of information. Do it enough times, and you can start to piece together the nuggets.

I missed another tip. I 'think' it works better if you can start betting high, and then back down if you need to.
In other words, if on a decent table, I am comfortable betting $10 PL / 50 odds, and Placing $80 inside (25,30,25), I will try and start that way, and hope to at least break even on the first couple of shooters. If the box gets in his/her mind you are betting quarters, they won't bother to drop you down, if the table gets cold and you bet $34 inside for a few shooters. So you get full credit for betting quarters the whole time.
OTOH, if you start out betting $34 inside, and you do that for the first few shooters, and they get you recorded as $34, then when you do go to $80, you won't get credit for it. You will have to bet at the higher limit for quite a while before they will change your rating. This is all IMO, YMMV (your mileage may vary).

Quote: FleaStiff

>You will have to pay for all tips, but I believe the host will be more favorable with you ... .
Places like The Venetian will list your tips separately but will pick them up as well, so you don't have to pay the tips, but I would be both reasonable and generous with tips. Some places do only comp the actual charge but not the tip. Being generous is good because it demonstrates that you have additional discretionary funds and that means the casino will want to keep you happy. It makes them think that your happiness is a good investment for them.



This is very interesting about the Venetian. It was explained to me by a Host, they would not comp the tips, since tips are considered compensation. If they comp'd the tips, then in effect, the casino was paying the compensation, and as a corporation, they would then need to pay the FICA, SS, and employment taxes that go along with employee compensation, not to mention any retirement or 401K implications. I have no idea if this is acutally true. It certainly sounded plausible enough to me. It would be easy enough to track, and Venetian may just feel this is an additional benefit that their guests deserve. It would seem to set them apart from most other casinos.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!

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