Dealer not busting on 22!
June 27th, 2012 at 8:59:42 AM
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Hello all,
I'm a Blackjack dealer from Crown Casino in Melbourne, Australia and for a few months now a new variant of Blackjack has spread like wildfire throughout the casino called "Blackjack Plus". Basically the rules of the game are as follows:
- 6 decks
- No hole card
- Dealer stands on soft 17
- Double allowed on any two or three card total, including soft totals
- Double after split allowed
- Can split only twice
- When splitting Aces one card only
- No surrender/forfeit
- 21/Blackjack paid out straight away regardless of dealers card
- Natural Blackjack pays 3 to 2
- If player has 5 cards under 21, paid straight away
- When dealer has 22 all bets are standoff/push
My question is how does the standoff/push on 22 affect the game in terms of players odds and house edge? What would the basic strategy chart for such a game look like?
I've done a bit of researching and the only other instance where I seem to find a 22 push rule is in "Blackjack Switch" however I'd imagine the strategy used there wouldn't be applied here?
What do others think of this variant? Your thoughts are appreciated in advance!
I'm a Blackjack dealer from Crown Casino in Melbourne, Australia and for a few months now a new variant of Blackjack has spread like wildfire throughout the casino called "Blackjack Plus". Basically the rules of the game are as follows:
- 6 decks
- No hole card
- Dealer stands on soft 17
- Double allowed on any two or three card total, including soft totals
- Double after split allowed
- Can split only twice
- When splitting Aces one card only
- No surrender/forfeit
- 21/Blackjack paid out straight away regardless of dealers card
- Natural Blackjack pays 3 to 2
- If player has 5 cards under 21, paid straight away
- When dealer has 22 all bets are standoff/push
My question is how does the standoff/push on 22 affect the game in terms of players odds and house edge? What would the basic strategy chart for such a game look like?
I've done a bit of researching and the only other instance where I seem to find a 22 push rule is in "Blackjack Switch" however I'd imagine the strategy used there wouldn't be applied here?
What do others think of this variant? Your thoughts are appreciated in advance!
June 27th, 2012 at 9:18:15 AM
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The answe to your questions can be found here: https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/rule-variations/
June 27th, 2012 at 10:59:31 AM
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You will note that at least in the US (and potentially internationally), this rule is patent protected and not available for anyone to use.
The intellectual property owner is a member of the forum and I am sure will be interested to learn that his rule is being rapidly adapted in Australia.
The intellectual property owner is a member of the forum and I am sure will be interested to learn that his rule is being rapidly adapted in Australia.
June 27th, 2012 at 12:28:40 PM
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This "push 22" BJ rule was discussed on some LinkedIn forums, with some Australians commenting "it IS patented?? Didn't know that, didn't think it was...it was such a good idea, how could it be patented?...(huh!)....We're just using it...hmmm..." Then Switch chimed in....
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
June 27th, 2012 at 1:49:21 PM
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Well as far as I know, only Melbourne and possibly Perth have adapted this rule.
You're quite right of course, a quick Google search confirmed it is indeed patented. I would bet that only a select few here would even know this as well.
It's actually quite interesting reading through the patent, as it describes that the layout desirably should be marked with areas for players to bet on dealer getting 22, which is not the case in Australia. The layout is standard and there is no indication, apart from the detail in the table sign that suggests there even is a push 22 rule... hmmm...
It would be interesting to know what the owners thoughts are as well.
You're quite right of course, a quick Google search confirmed it is indeed patented. I would bet that only a select few here would even know this as well.
It's actually quite interesting reading through the patent, as it describes that the layout desirably should be marked with areas for players to bet on dealer getting 22, which is not the case in Australia. The layout is standard and there is no indication, apart from the detail in the table sign that suggests there even is a push 22 rule... hmmm...
It would be interesting to know what the owners thoughts are as well.
June 27th, 2012 at 2:13:18 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 27th, 2012 at 2:25:14 PM
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What is a typical payout of the "Dealer 22" push side bet?
June 27th, 2012 at 3:16:18 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesA horrible game.
Indeed. The house edge is somewhere around 4.75%. The house edge on single-deck 6:5 is 1.2%, making this game about 4 times worse.
June 27th, 2012 at 3:44:18 PM
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Quote: PokeraddictWhat is a typical payout of the "Dealer 22" push side bet?
Unsure, we don't have such a bet here. I tried looking it up too but I couldn't find it.
June 27th, 2012 at 3:49:20 PM
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Quote: JBIndeed. The house edge is somewhere around 4.75%. The house edge on single-deck 6:5 is 1.2%, making this game about 4 times worse.
WOW! I surely didn't expect it to be that much haha that is incredible.
Thank you for the insight!
June 27th, 2012 at 4:04:37 PM
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Quote: JBIndeed. The house edge is somewhere around 4.75%. The house edge on single-deck 6:5 is 1.2%, making this game about 4 times worse.
"Blackjack Plus" must mean Blackjack plus more than 4% on the house edge. Har har.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
June 27th, 2012 at 4:50:30 PM
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Hey, not a big deal ! The blackjack AP guys will STILL make a killing......I think?
Ken
Ken
June 27th, 2012 at 5:00:28 PM
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Quote: AcesAndEights"Blackjack Plus" must mean Blackjack plus more than 4% on the house edge.
Well, from the casino's perspective, isn't it?
I've heard of "Blackjack Plus" before though.
They could at least give players the courtesy of resplits, full choice on split aces, surrender and rescue, 2-1 for suited BJ, but I guess they figured "hey, if anyone's playing this, he'll play it anyway".
I do have a question though. By "when dealer has 22 all bets are standoff/push" do you mean that all non-busted hands push, or that busted hands also push? In the latter (highly unlikely) case it's not quite as bad.
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June 27th, 2012 at 5:15:25 PM
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Quote: mrjjjHey, not a big deal ! The blackjack AP guys will STILL make a killing......I think?
Ken
Nope- highly unlikely any counting scenario will be able to dent a game with that house edge. However, the game is still slightly better than 00 roulette.... (Just teasing, Ken)
June 27th, 2012 at 5:32:12 PM
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Quote: P90
I do have a question though. By "when dealer has 22 all bets are standoff/push" do you mean that all non-busted hands push, or that busted hands also push? In the latter (highly unlikely) case it's not quite as bad.
All non-busted hands are pushed.
June 27th, 2012 at 5:35:16 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 27th, 2012 at 5:37:36 PM
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Quote: blackjack171Well as far as I know, only Melbourne and possibly Perth have adapted this rule.
You're quite right of course, a quick Google search confirmed it is indeed patented. I would bet that only a select few here would even know this as well.
It's actually quite interesting reading through the patent, as it describes that the layout desirably should be marked with areas for players to bet on dealer getting 22, which is not the case in Australia. The layout is standard and there is no indication, apart from the detail in the table sign that suggests there even is a push 22 rule... hmmm...
It would be interesting to know what the owners thoughts are as well.
The 'Push 22' is protected in the US. The designers of the 'Blackjack Plus' game certainly copied the 'Push 22' concept as they had exposure to 'Blackjack Switch' before they came up with their game. 'Blackjack Switch' has not taken off as well as expected in the Australian market but there will be a drive to install 'Free Bet' Blackjack over there in the near future.
'Blackjack Plus' is a very high house edge game and, in my opinion, will lose any popularity with the players in the long run. In fact I was under the impression that the game wasn't doing that well.
Shuffle Master are the exclusive distributors for my 'Push 22' games in Australia so I'm sure that they are keeping an eye on developements over there.
June 27th, 2012 at 5:41:56 PM
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With all due respect to Switch, I have a hard time swallowing the fact that someone can "own" a casino rule, especially something as broad as push 22. There is a lot of crazy intellectual property stuff going on though. I have heard stories of cases where Monsanto claims they own the IP on certain strains of corn. The wind carries the seeds to a farmers field and he gets sued for stealing intellectual property...just crazy.
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June 27th, 2012 at 5:42:52 PM
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Quote: PokeraddictWhat is a typical payout of the "Dealer 22" push side bet?
There is both a standard and progressive payout bet for the 'Dealer 22'. I have worked in conjunction with Shuffle Master to devise both sets of wagers.
The 'Progressive' will go live at Binions in the near future and will be used to link up more than 1 type of 'Push 22' game. The jackpot is expected to be hit around the $100K mark so it will be attractive to players without venturing into the realm of 'near-impossibility'.
June 27th, 2012 at 5:51:31 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 27th, 2012 at 7:51:09 PM
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Quote: bigfoot66With all due respect to Switch, I have a hard time swallowing the fact that someone can "own" a casino rule, especially something as broad as push 22.
This is a very interesting comment....the Push 22 Rule is not some act of nature that was out there before Switch created it.
What about owning something like "Queen High Pai Gow hand for the dealer pushes all bets" or in baccarat "Banker three card 7 winning hand pushes". These are the essence of PaiGowDan's EZ Pai Gow Poker and the Talisman Group that own EZ Baccarat.
What is it about Push 22 that is so broad to make is unimaginable that someone would own it?
June 28th, 2012 at 8:08:02 AM
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Quote: Switch'Blackjack Switch' has not taken off as well as expected in the Australian market but there will be a drive to install 'Free Bet' Blackjack over there in the near future.
'Blackjack Plus' is a very high house edge game and, in my opinion, will lose any popularity with the players in the long run. In fact I was under the impression that the game wasn't doing that well.
"Free Bet Blackjack" ey... will have to keep an eye out for that one.
Well I heard off the grapevine that average players over here preferred it the most over other variants which is why it has basically taken over all other forms of blackjack throughout the main casino leaving your average player without much of a choice but to play it really, unless of course they move into the premium areas, where the variant isn't offered.
From a dealers point of view though, I do hear consistent mumblings and rumblings about it because it's an absolutely unheard of rule in Australia. Most people here assume the casino themselves invented it haha.
