Windows 8 Must Be Destroyed

Has anybody upgraded to 8.1 yet? I got a new laptop
yesterday and 8 sucks, I want to go to 8.1 because
it has a Start button.

I got an HP with 4 gigs of RAM and 320 HD. It's 15",
same as the one I bought in 2006 (yesterday) but is
thinner and lighter and cost $200 less. It's really fast,
but I don't like 8 at all.

Quote: Nareed

Here's my final word on the ill-conceived Windows 8/8.1 OS:

http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/189/7/#post5950

Final word? I'll believe that when I see it :p

Well that lasted one fricking day. Installed 8.1 yesterday, took hours,
and turned it on today and an error message pops up. Clicked on
'fix' and said 8.1 was corrupted and had to be uninstalled. An hour
later I had what came out of the box on Saturday, all my stuff was
gone. Screw 8.1, it wasn't any different except it had a start button,
big whup.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Final word? I'll believe that when I see it :p

When I say "Final Word" (all rights reserved), I mean it's my judgment and it won't change unless I am presented with very convincing and overwhelming evidence to the contrary (in this case the last doesn't apply). It does not mean it's my last word, or that I've got nothing more to say about it.

There's much more to be said about it. For example, we could call it W I N D O S. It's pronounced "windows" but it stands for: Windows 8(.1) Is Not a Desktop Operating System. Which may be seen as either childish or clever, depending largely on how you feel about puns.


BTW, you realize, I trust, I've applied the Bugs Bunny principle to Microsoft already?

I am the proud owner of a Windows 7 PC!!!!

Read all about ti here: http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/189/12/#post7466

But don't fret. I shall continue to agitate against Windows 8.(1) (it's all in the link).

Quote: Nareed

I am the proud owner of a Windows 7 PC!!!!

Read all about ti here: http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/189/12/#post7466

But don't fret. I shall continue to agitate against Windows 8.(1) (it's all in the link).

Nice! Glad you were able to avoid 8, and get a good deal on the machine to boot.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Nice! Glad you were able to avoid 8, and get a good deal on the machine to boot.

Thanks!

Now I can complain about the Windows 7 desktop ;)

I would second Windows 7 versus Window 8 or 8.1

Quote: avianrandy

I would second Windows 7 versus Window 8 or 8.1

I would second Windows 1 over Windows 8 (she exaggerated slightly).

I'm using the new PC right now. The screen is HUGE. And I'll definitely junk the bluetooth keyboard and replace it with my old, old, old HP keyboard I've kept through, now, four PCs.

My latest on windows 8(.1)(Update 1):

http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/189/19/#post9438

Quote: avianrandy

I would second Windows 7 versus Window 8 or 8.1

Certainly at least until Microsoft or someone else comes up with a usable to way to translate the all-important right-click functions to touch screens.

Quote: SanchoPanza

Certainly at least until Microsoft or someone else comes up with a usable to way to translate the all-important right-click functions to touch screens.

The "long tap" in Android devices works kind of like the right-click function of a mouse. the context menu you get depends on the OS, the program currently running, and even whether or not you have some connectivity available. And it doens't quite aork on all programs, but that's true of right-click in some programs as well.

That aside, I recommend even Windows Vista over Windows 8.

Why are you not using a Mac for intensive work?

Quote: aceofspades

Why are you not using a Mac for intensive work?

If you're asking me, because I don't use paperwights for work ;) Especially not such expensive ones.

Quote: Nareed

If you're asking me, because I don't use paperwights for work ;) Especially not such expensive ones.

Yes, I was asking you - as for me, I made the switch to Macs about 3 years ago and never looked back. No crashing, no viruses, no "Disk Cleanup" BS, no Norton Anti_Virus nonsense - the Mac works and works amazingly well

Quote: aceofspades

Yes, I was asking you - as for me, I made the switch to Macs about 3 years ago and never looked back. No crashing, no viruses, no "Disk Cleanup" BS, no Norton Anti_Virus nonsense - the Mac works and works amazingly well

I'd give you specifics about it, but the fact is I've never used a Mac in my life. (well, once, for about six minutes in 1986, or was it 87?)

From what little I've gathered, there is no taskbar, no start menu, there are "apps" pinned in the lower part of the screen, and there is no right mouse button (or scroll wheel as far as I know). Not ot mention I've heard something about "gestures" done with the mouse.

And from what I do kow the window controls (minimize, maximize and close) are color-coded rather than pictographic and on the left side. That alone would be a deal breaker. Come on, Am I going to ever make my right arm believe it needs to move the mouse left to shut down a window?

Now, if I'm down on Windows 8(.1) because it changed too much from what Windows has been since 1995, I don't seriously expect an even more different OS would be to my liking. What I've seen from Linux (mostly Mint) has been much more familiar than Windows 8(.1)

Besides there's the price. I think I can buy a Windows PC, a laptop and an Android 7" tablet for what I'd pay for one single Mac. (Actually I've no idea, I haven't priced a Mac).

Oh, I'm glad you found a machine you can work with, and if you like it that's great. But please don't start making a Mac pitch, or even try to explain how OS (cat name) works. It would be wasted on me.

Quote: Nareed

I'd give you specifics about it, but the fact is I've never used a Mac in my life. (well, once, for about six minutes in 1986, or was it 87?)

From what little I've gathered, there is no taskbar, no start menu, there are "apps" pinned in the lower part of the screen, and there is no right mouse button (or scroll wheel as far as I know). Not ot mention I've heard something about "gestures" done with the mouse.

And from what I do kow the window controls (minimize, maximize and close) are color-coded rather than pictographic and on the left side. That alone would be a deal breaker. Come on, Am I going to ever make my right arm believe it needs to move the mouse left to shut down a window?

Now, if I'm down on Windows 8(.1) because it changed too much from what Windows has been since 1995, I don't seriously expect an even more different OS would be to my liking. What I've seen from Linux (mostly Mint) has been much more familiar than Windows 8(.1)

Besides there's the price. I think I can buy a Windows PC, a laptop and an Android 7" tablet for what I'd pay for one single Mac. (Actually I've no idea, I haven't priced a Mac).

Oh, I'm glad you found a machine you can work with, and if you like it that's great. But please don't start making a Mac pitch, or even try to explain how OS (cat name) works. It would be wasted on me.

I will not become a Mac ad (but, FYI, they are over the cat names - the newest incarnation is Mavericks)

Quote: aceofspades

I will not become a Mac ad

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

Quote:

(but, FYI, they are over the cat names - the newest incarnation is Mavericks)

(Oh? they got rid of the best part?) ;)

Windows PCs provide lots of flexibility and customization (with both hardware and software)
Windows PCs offer support for cutting-edge hardware
Windows has more software available than any other platform
Windows offers great backwards-compatibility
Windows provides a great gaming experience thanks to great hardware support and lots of games
Windows offers better options for music production
Windows is the same platform most of the world uses

Quote: Nareed

Now, if I'm down on Windows 8(.1) because it changed too much from what Windows has been since 1995, I don't seriously expect an even more different OS would be to my liking. What I've seen from Linux (mostly Mint) has been much more familiar than Windows 8(.1)

But come to think of it, would any of the alleged(*) Mac benefits translate to running Win 7 in a virtual machine on a Mac? I still woulnd't buy a Mac, but now I'm curious.

Quote: EvenBob

Windows PCs provide lots of flexibility and customization (with both hardware and software)
Windows PCs offer support for cutting-edge hardware
Windows has more software available than any other platform
Windows offers great backwards-compatibility
Windows provides a great gaming experience thanks to great hardware support and lots of games
Windows offers better options for music production
Windows is the same platform most of the world uses

EvenBob would never use a Mac because Steve Jobs was a liberal hippy type. Just kidding.

Windows 8 hass been destroyed.

Or rather it's in the process of being consigned to the scrap heap of bad corporate decisions, along with the Edsel, New Coke Windows ME, Windows Vista (see a trend here?) and others less well-known like 8-track tapes, video discs, disc cameras (see another trend?) etc.

Word is later this month or next month there will be an Update 2 for Win8.1, then it dies (in about ten to fifteen years or so). Next comes "Threshold" which nearly everyone in the tech press online is calling Windows 9, with caveats that it may be called somehting else. The consensus, though, is that MS will name it somehting other than Windows 8.anything, as that brand is tarnished beyond any hope of recovery.

Win9, assuming it's called that, will have two interesting features. One, it will configure its own UI to touch-centric or mouse/keyboard-centric according to what's connected to the "device." This is a bit vague, and there are contradictory reports on whether Win9 tablets will even support any kind of desktop functionality (I think they should, as an option). Second, there will be a Start Menu (finally!!!!!!). It won't be the Win95/98/XP/Vista/7 menu, but at least one report indicates it will be very customizable.

What took so long?

The other feature much mentioned is that "Metro" apps will run in floating windows in the desktop. I care less about this, as my forays into Windows 8.1 left me feeling these apps are kind of useless on a desktop PC or a laptop.

The whole release should be available by Spring 2015.

What took so long?

Seriously, Win8 debuted late in 2012. It's been steadily failing since. Oh, well. I'll post some analysis later.

The one rumor worth paying attention to, or keepign in mind, is that upgrades to Win9 might be free for current Win8.1 and Win7 SP1 users.

Rumors on when a preview will be available, though, avry every other fraction of a second. If a preview is offered, I'll run it beforehand.

Win8 has got to be one of the worst programs they ever came out with, I spent the last two days trying to fix it once again.
I hate this operating system!

W8 is fine. Add ClassicShell or some other IU-modifying software that gives you a more traditional Windows feel and reap the benefits of the best memory management of any OS on the market. I add ClassicShell to W8 immediately upon start up, even before applying any Windows Updates. It seems to solve a lot of problems my users were having with the UI.

MS Office was perfected with the release of Office 97. Everything since then has been a move in the wrong direction. The advent of the ribbon toolbar was akin the the arrival of one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse and whatever they're selling today is a hollow shell of what MS Office should be.

My biggest complaint is the slow death of keyboard shortcuts.

Quote: superrick

Win8 has got to be one of the worst programs they ever came out with

You'll get no argument from me.

I'm mildly not-pesimistic about Windows9 (if they call it Windows9; me, I'd go back to using actual names like "Windows We're Very Sorry and We'll NEVER Mess With the Desktop EVER Again, EVER," though that would give marketing people the fits). I'm even planning on how to upgrade which machines to it. Though I still also plan someday soon to use the old Vista PC as a Linux testbed.

Quote: TerribleTom

W8 is fine.

There are no words.

Quote:

Add ClassicShell or some other IU-modifying software that gives you a more traditional Windows feel [..]

That helps, yes. A little. I had to do a great deal more to it just to be able to use it. I forget all I did, or how, but I disabled the lock screen, the mandatory log-in, and through some effort I made it almost impossible for the Metro/Modern/Windows Store/Whatever-it's-called interface to run at all.

"Of course that's just for starters"

Quote:

and reap the benefits of the best memory management of any OS on the market.

Oh, it is rather nice under the hood, at least at first. I can't recall a single PC which did not run fast when new, or when reformatted and re-set to "new" condition. I don't know how it works int he long term for Win8.

Quote:

MS Office was perfected with the release of Office 97.

Oh, but it has all the under the hood improvements, too. I'm not being sarcastic (really, I'm not). You get suhc things as smaller files, it runs faster since Office 2007 when the x was added to the file types.

Quote:

The advent of the ribbon toolbar was akin the the arrival of one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse and whatever they're selling today is a hollow shell of what MS Office should be.

I won't argue that. I can't. Except to say Win8 is the three other horsemen and their cousin Larry as well.

It's not so much that the ribbon is a bad idea (it is), but 1) that there is no option to hide it and use drop-down menus instead, and 2) MS changed the grouping of the various tools and commands, so one had no idea any more where anything could be found.

And to think MS is selling the subscription model of Office by saying updates will now be automatic!

That does it. Office 365 Must be Destroyed!

Quote:

My biggest complaint is the slow death of keyboard shortcuts.

In Office 2010 in Spanish they still work, sort of. Assuming this is even what you mean. If I type, sequentially, alt-e-u, I get the search function in Word (for some reason it's alt-e-b in Excel). Alt-e-z gets me the replace function. F2 still works in Excel, too.

I've yet to try Office 2013 or Office 365.

Word out on the tech press is that the last usage stats indicate a small loss inusage share for Win8. This reverses a months-long trend of small gains. but the curious thing is that XP usage rose by an even smaller amount.

Truth to tell XP is well past its expiration date. Some websites have trouble running on it, some programs won't run at all, or run slowly or badly, and there are security concerns, too. I still use it at work becasue that's what I was issued, and lately changing a PC takes a minor miracle or a major malfunction. But if I'd had it at home (I don't), I'd get it replaced pronto.

Or I'd want to.

Consider the progression:

XP to Vista was a bad idea on many levels. To begin with Vista wouldn't run on "good enough" XP systems. So you'd need to get a new PC. ON those where it did run, it ran very slow.

So XP to Win7, yes? Again, it wouldn't run on the "good enough" systems. That was a major issue MS did address with Win8 by making it run well on low end machines. Alas, nobody wants Windows 8.

XP to Windows 8, then. Please. We're having a serious conversation here.

Naturally some people did buy new PCs to run Win7. Some XP systems could be upgraded to Win7, too. That's how Win7 has become the dominant Windows OS today. But the plain fact is MS failed to provide a functional, economic alternative to XP for years. Those that were economical (ie not requiring new hardware) were not functional (meaning Win8), and those that were functional (meaning Win7) were not economical.

Having calmed down a bit from my peak of desperation induced by the combination of a clunky Vista PC and only Win8 alternatives, I can see Win8 as a "bold" experiment. Yet it's really odd a conservative company like MS would not take a few simple precautions, such as leaving the desktop largely untouched or at least having the option of an XP/Vista/7 desktop. come on, they did this in Win95 for DOS users. They did it in XP for Win95/98 and for DOS users. They even did it in Vista and Win7 for Win95/98/XP users.

This time they made it more difficult for prior Windows users, of any version, to 1) find the desktop and 2) use the desktop.

Worse yet, the M/M/WS/W interface (whatever it's called now) conferred no benefits at all to dekstop users. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. Not one. Not even to those with a touch screen PC. It's a tablet interface, not a PC one. I won't rehash all my arguments here, but I will ask a question:

What did they expect?

I'd really like to know.

I resisted moving away from XP until after the last minute - I just ordered 13 PCs yesterday that will mark the end of Windows XP for the company. At this point, I don't care if it's W7 or W8 so long as it's a Pro OS.

I hope that whatever UI designer came up with W8 has been fired and blacklisted.

Quote: TerribleTom

I resisted moving away from XP until after the last minute - I just ordered 13 PCs yesterday that will mark the end of Windows XP for the company.

The last minute either came in April or hasn't come yet. It definitely wasn't yesterday ;)

Quote:

At this point, I don't care if it's W7 or W8 so long as it's a Pro OS.

If it's Win8, here are some names to Google: Start8, Classic Shell. I preffer Start8, especially combined with Modern mix. they're worth less than $20 per PC.

Quote:

I hope that whatever UI designer came up with W8 has been fired and blacklisted.

Fired, yes. The man in charge was Steven(?) Sinofsky. He's gone from MS. The man in charge of the man in charge was CEO Steve Ballmer, who's also gone. Other people connected with the alleged OS were shuffled off to other parts of the company.

None, as far as I know, have been blacklisted.

If I wanted a tablet I would have went out and bought one, I wanted a PC that could run all of my programs without a problem!

Once again Microsoft, proved to the world that it didn't think before it acted. Businesses are still running Windows 7 for a very good reasons. I've had problems with Windows 8 sometimes taking days to repair it, no I'm not a computer geek, but I do know my way around them.

I've had to call for professional help twice now, my best buddy works in the IT department of Clark County, It's just very frustrating to go out and buy a new computer and you have no choice of what operating system is on, then finding out that the latest greatest operating system they came up with is just junk!

There is a big difference between a tablet and a PC, I don't want a tablet sitting on my desk, when I thought that I bought a PC!

Quote: superrick

Once again Microsoft, proved to the world that it didn't think before it acted.

It also failed to think while it was acting and after it had acted as well.

The many shortcomings of Win8 aside, who expects to sell hundreds of millions of copies of a completely different OS to an existing user base without as much as a tutorial or even a link to one? Seriously, all unsuspecting users got upon booting their brand new PC into an unfamiliar environment was "Touch Any Corner." I got more than that, albeit not much more, on my first Android tablet.

Next they tried incremental aid for using the system with a mouse and keyboard. IMO they fell far short. It will be interesting when Win9, or whatever it gets called(*), to learn when the decision was amde to put the start menu back in. Given how quickly dozens of third-party companies were able to rush theirs into amrket, it seems MS should ahve been able to do so for 8.1 or Update 1 easily (BTW Classic Shell existed since before Win8, for people who wanted the look/feel of XP more than that of Vista/7).

At least I learned something this time around. Pay attention to news about Windows' development and try the preview as soon as it's out.

Quote:

There is a big difference between a tablet and a PC,

To be fair, a great deal of the world, or the tech press at any rate, went slightly tablet-mad, or tablet-euphoric, for a while. Let alone articles praising Win8, there were serious pieces on how to create content on a tablet without a mouse or a keyboard. And I mean no kind of keyboard at all, not even the touch keyboard you find on phones and tablets. There were serious peices singing the praises of voice commands, gestures, track-pads, etc.

I'd like to know what they were smoking, and then I'd like to get a pound of it ;)

In the meantime the most useful feature of Microsoft's actual tablet, the Surface line, was the optional integral keyboard (with a touch-pad!) one could get for an outrageous sum (in my mind, keybaords are supposed to be cheap).

Think about it. After being told to use touch on the desktop, the premiere portable devices running Windows 8 loudly proclaimed the keyboard with touch pad as a selling point.

Not that they're wrong. A large(ish) tablet with a keyboard and touch apd, or a mouse even, is a perfectly good replacement for a laptop for some tasks. I'm even thinking about getting one myself. But then if keyboards and pointing devices are so great, why try to remove them from the desktop PC??? I mean, really WTF?

I hope all this gets well-documented to be used in business schools. Compared to Windows 8, New Coke was the best idea to come out of Atlanta in decades. At that New Coke failed msotly through bad (and I mean really bad) marketing. Win8 failed across the board.


(*) I still favor a change to a name rather than a number, but I'm at a loss for non-sarcastic options such as "Windows Longhorn," or suggesting they do Adnroid one better and use entrees: Windows Chicken Kiev.

Nareed what will you do once W8 is destroyed (assuming W9 is good)? Your life's mission will be complete.

Quote: AxelWolf

Nareed what will you do once W8 is destroyed (assuming W9 is good)? Your life's mission will be complete.

Did you not read the thread? I will advocate for the anhilation of rental software and a restoration of the drop down menu and keyboard shortcuts for Office.

I'l also likely rail against Android. I like it, but the way it works makes things a bit harder than they should be. I want easy access to my raw files, not filtered through a photo gallery, or Google Drive, or an office suite, or a podcast player, etc.

Take the other day, for instance. My podcast player, Dog Catcher, couldn't download a podcast from the History of Byzantium. I could download it via the web browser, but then I couldn't save it where Dog Catcher could play it. That's something so simple even Windows 8 can do it.

So there ;)

Quote: Nareed

I'l also likely rail against Android. I like it, but the way it works makes things a bit harder than they should be. I want easy access to my raw files, not filtered through a photo gallery, or Google Drive, or an office suite, or a podcast player, etc.

I'm a big Google/Android user and this is probably my biggest complaint. Not that Apple/iOS is much better...

Quote: Nareed

(*) I still favor a change to a name rather than a number, but I'm at a loss for non-sarcastic options such as "Windows Longhorn," or suggesting they do Adnroid one better and use entrees: Windows Chicken Kiev.

I have it!

Windows Pacifier

:)

It's really unfair to pile on when they've had such bad luck/lack of foresight with names lately. I mean, first "Metro" was taken away, then "Modern" didn't stick, then their one bright spot, Sky Drive, was yanked on such a flimsy pretext... And look at the results: the centerpiece interface of Win8 is nameless. The cloud portion is called One Drive, which sounds as much as an incomplete street address as a product name.

I would really like to make a sincerely helpful suggestion. And if I figure out how, I will.

Quote: TerribleTom

I'm a big Google/Android user and this is probably my biggest complaint. Not that Apple/iOS is much better...

The only complaint I have about android is the flash issues. I found a way around this so I'm good.

Progress of my campaign to exterminate Win8 in my life:

[x] Android phone

[x] Android tablet

[x] Legacy win7 netbook

[ ] Dual bootable linux/wincrap machine on my desktop*

*A few proprietary things still do require windows to run, though I don't have to boot into wincrap too often. Linux is sweet, and easy. And for an office suite including full featured word processor, spreadsheet, database, and other stuff I have happily been using Open Office for a long time on multiple platforms, like it much better than I ever did the equivalent MS pig, and it cost zero dollars.

Quote: TerribleTom

I'm a big Google/Android user and this is probably my biggest complaint.

It is my biggest, but there are others.

Quote:

Not that Apple/iOS is much better...

Thus far I only have one complaint about iOS: it's too EXPENSIVE. Were I to use it no doubt I'd come up with more.

Spekaing of Android, when I bought my Nexus 7 it had the first version of Jelly bean (I forget the number). All by itself, it upgraded to the final version. After that I turned off the auto-update option (and a good thing, too). Then a few weeks later a sticky notification came up urging me to update the OS to 4.4.2, or Kit Kat if you'd rather.

I haven't because 1) I wanted to at least wait for the bugs to be discovered and fixed first, 2) as I scanned the tech press for bug reports, I read up on Kit Kat and decided it didn't sound as if I'd like it.

However, the tablet's gotten a bit slow, a bit temperamental, and newer apps, or updated apps, sometimes do odd things. I still won't update because Android 5.0, code-named "L"(*), is coming up soon. I'll wait for that. My question is: can I restore an older version fo the OS after upgrading to a newer one? Without having to reinstall al the apps I have?



(*) I wonder what it will be named. The "k" was supposed to be "Key lime pie," but then Google made a deal with Nestle. So what candies, pastries or sweets begin with an L?

Thinking about getting a Surface Pro 3 - 256GB / Intel i7, 12" ($1500) should I wait till the new windows come out or are they always going to keep 8.1 on things like this? I was thinking about getting a laptop switch significantly less expensive but I have not see a 12" or anything as powerful.

They say its a quality replacement for a laptop(is it?). Will something like this run all the normal programs I can run on my laptop?

Quote: AxelWolf

Thinking about getting a Surface Pro 3 - 256GB / Intel i7, 12" ($1500) should I wait till the new windows come out or are they always going to keep 8.1 on things like this?

The latest rumor is Win9 will come out in April of next year. So first think about whether you want to wait that long. Currently the Win8.1 on a Surface does run both the touch and desktop interface.

How will Win9 operate on Surface is as yet a matter of conjecture based on what leaks there have been. In other words, until at least the preview for Win9 comes out and people run it on Surface, you won't really know much about it.

Quote:

I was thinking about getting a laptop switch significantly less expensive but I have not see a 12" or anything as powerful.

The Surface is not so much a tablet as a miniature PC. Before i found a Win7 PC, I even considered getting a Surface 2 Pro to use as a desktop/laptop combo.

Quote:

Will something like this run all the normal programs I can run on my laptop?

As is, yes.

Quote: Nareed

The latest rumor is Win9 will come out in April of next year. So first think about whether you want to wait that long. Currently the Win8.1 on a Surface does run both the touch and desktop interface.

How will Win9 operate on Surface is as yet a matter of conjecture based on what leaks there have been. In other words, until at least the preview for Win9 comes out and people run it on Surface, you won't really know much about it.



The Surface is not so much a tablet as a miniature PC. Before i found a Win7 PC, I even considered getting a Surface 2 Pro to use as a desktop/laptop combo.



As is, yes.

I'm looking to replace 2 devices, a tablet and a laptop, more so the laptop, so I'm glad its more of a miniature PC (I will miss my huge laptop screen 17") I want everything in one place. I'm wondering if they have 4g on the Surface? or am I still going to always find a wifi connection? I could connect to my phone I guess but then my phone will go dead even faster then it does allready.

Can I use the Google play store on this or am I stuck with the Microsoft app store?

I have a concern with the mouse pad it looks flimsy(probably lags) and that's what I use 99% of the time when using a laptop, I grip the front bottom of a laptop with my thumb for leverage, my middle finger on the pad for movement and my index finger on the buttons. I'm able to mimic the speed and accuracy of a mouse. I would be losing that and it might slow me down and seem strange to me. I find a mouse to be awkward and unconformable to use.

Here's a review of the Pro 3:

http://winsupersite.com/mobile-devices/microsoft-surface-pro-3-review

Just keep in mind the author is a Microsoft fan boy.

Quote: AxelWolf

I'm wondering if they have 4g on the Surface?

No idea.

Quote:

Can I use the Google play store on this or am I stuck with the Microsoft app store?

You're stuck with Microsoft. I don't know whether you could install Android in a partition. I don't know if you can even partition and boot separately from an SSD.

Quote:

I have a concern with the mouse pad it looks flimsy(probably lags) and that's what I use 99% of the time when using a laptop,

Try the demo machine at a store.

Speaking of killing technology, a few months ago my tablet lost its WiFi connection at work. It started displaying "Avoided Poor Internet Connection." I thought simply I'd been kicked out off the WiFi and did nothing.

However, last week I found every Android phone recently issued could easily connect to the corporate WiFi by just entering the right password. Furhter, two other tablets from other people could connect easily as well.

I tried then to use that password, and got "Avoided Poor Internet Connection."

<sigh>

I have looked the issue up online. Older versions of Android, apaprently, have the option to unchek a box marked "Avoid Poor Internet Connections." Mine doens't (the phone does, but not the tablet). The tablet can connect without trouble to every other WiFi in existence.At home, at Fremont St. in Vegas, at various airports,a t various restaurants, etc. It just refuses to connect at the office. Ironically this "poor itnernet connection" is also marked as being of "excelent" or "good" signal strength at all times.

Any notion what I can do? It's a Nexus 7 (2012 model) running Kit Kat 4.4.2

Thanks

Here's a shot of a leaked version of the upcoming Start Menu:

http://www.neowin.net/news/new-start-menu-leaks-in-windows-build-9788

Had Microsoft put something like this on Win8(.1) to begin with, they'd have spared themselves a lot of aggravation. Had thye put this in the 8.1 version, even, they'd ahve also spared themselves a lot of grief.

On the plus side, I've gained insight enough to state Nareed's First Law of Microsoft Windows Releases: Microsoft is perfectly capable of producing an improved Windows that people will like. They just need to crash and burn the company while riding the bad version first (see Vista and 8(.1) )

I note a bit of obsession with the proverbial color of the bikeshed here all around, but... isn't this whole new wave kind of defeating the initial purpose of a windowed GUI? You don't have to physically type your commands anymore as in the old days, but that was never really the problem, was it? It's now very difficult to multitask beyond a certain threshold, which was always the real advantage, not the ability to work with pictures rather than words.

I miss the Start menu - I miss being able to run through bookmarks in a list rather than having to wrestle with the Start screen, or have an endless taskbar - but what's more important to me is being able to window apps. Properly, not by moving the little bar over like you can now. I miss having Kindle open while playing poker, but that little sidebar is somewhere between too distracting and not distracting enough, erecting a nematic curtain of mutual isolation from whatever else I'm doing.

Also, I'm not really sure about memory management. I only really tax my system with games these days, but those definitely seem to be running much slower, on a system with a better processor, the same amount of RAM, and the same size hard drive. Might be the graphics card.

Well Ballmer is gone good riddance. That guy really took Microsoft to the dumpster. Hopefully Natya can bring back the spark for Microsoft. Just really sucks Windows 7 is going to lose support so soon so we are forced to Windows 9. Now hopefully Windows 9 doesn't become another disaster.

Quote: DMSCR

Hopefully Natya can bring back the spark for Microsoft.

Satya.

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Just really sucks Windows 7 is going to lose support so soon so we are forced to Windows 9.

Extended support ends until Jan. 2020. It may be extended further, as XP's was, but don't count on it. How XP fares, though, will tell you something of how Win7 will do once support runs out.

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Now hopefully Windows 9 doesn't become another disaster.

I plan to download the preview as soon as it's out. Form the leaks and credible rummors thus far, I'd say they're doing about 70% of things right, 5% wrong, and 25% to be determined (lock screen, cumpolsory log-in, cumpolsory MS account, etc).

MSFT better not screw things up with Win 9 because I am really considering going Apple as much I am annoyed by the possible switch. Never in a million years I would think about getting an Apple computer until I played around with Win 8.

From reading Satya's speeches and his approach with the future direction of MSFT he is correcting the mess that Ballmer made and hopefully this will reverse course for things.

Quote: DMSCR

MSFT better not screw things up with Win 9 because I am really considering going Apple as much I am annoyed by the possible switch. Never in a million years I would think about getting an Apple computer until I played around with Win 8.

I was so mad at Windows 8(.1) that I considered, and am still in fact considering, switching to Linux. Nothin will ever make me switch to Apple. I'd go into more detail, but the plain fact is I've no idea how any Apple OS works. I do know two things: 1) no start menu or taskbar, 2) the window controls are on the left.

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From reading Satya's speeches and his approach with the future direction of MSFT he is correcting the mess that Ballmer made and hopefully this will reverse course for things.

What I most like about the leaks and rumors I mentioned is they often contain words like "choice" and "customazible." Win8(.1) not only was terrible, but it offered just about zero choice or custom options in the desktop interface; at least without resorting to third-party software.