Are emergency rooms supposed to be for emergencies only?

Sorry I haven't replied in a while. I want to say congragulations to HB on her most recent weigh in at 181. That's incredible. And I'm glad that you haven't hit a plateau either. That is encouraging news to me and, hopefully, I wont hit a plateau either in my own quest for weight loss. I just thought that plateaus were very common based on personal experience and past reading. I'm still struggling with the eating part. I was doing well for a few days until last night when I pigged out again. Seems like I do that whenever I have a stressful period and I need to find a better way of dealing with stress during my diet...

Anyway enough about me. I would like to call Weaselman out for his rather rude posts and his whopping generalizations. I am working in the orthopaedic field and have seen several docs who work their assess off even after residency. There is a whole spread of how hard doctors work with docs that like to work 20 hours a week and docs that work 80 hours or more with the trend being more toward the 80 hour side. I think that you are just projecting your frustration about your prior difficulty getting an appointment.

And as far as pain goes, there is a spectrum of how pain is perceived. In addition to the physical component, there is a huge physcologic component to pain as well that the medical community is still trying to figure out. I think when a person says she is in severe pain, this should not be dismissed by anyone unless there is a component of secondary gain and that person is faking the pain. The amount a pain that a person says she has must be taken at face value and I think that it is ok to seek whatever reasonable treatment is necessary to get the pain down to an acceptable level for age and medical condition and physicians should also not downplay how much pain a person is having. Unfortunately, this treatment is almost impossible to get without insurance as it may require extensive physical therapy, pain medicines, life changing back injection, and possible even surgery and this treatment costs A LOT of money. Also like I said that pain has a huge psychologic component as well and I think it is perfectly ok to use psychological means to deal with it such as the Katie Byron approach in addition to other techniques.

Bottom line, if HB is having severe pain than that is what she is having and we are no one to hell her how, where, and when to seek treatment. We are no one to tell her to suck it up. All we can tell her is that should try and find a nice balance between exercise, eating, and health. I think that some of the exercise is going to help with her pain and ultimately the weight loss should help also. It is nearly impossible to get someone with chronic pain to exercise and the fact that HB is still exercising is commendable.

Utlimately, rise or fall, no matter what happens, the bet must go on and I'm hoping that you prove me wrong and win this challenge. If I had the expendable money I would put it up to get you closer to your goal of $9000, but I hope that someone will step up. However, the feeling of success at meeting your goal and winning the battle against obesity after years of dieting and failing and finally making it will definately be a better feeling in the long run than getting the money.

Quote: QuadCore

Anyway enough about me. I would like to call Weaselman out for his rather rude posts

I am sorry if you found my posts rude. Really. I apologize.

Could you please explain though what exactly was it about them you found deserving of such label, so that I know how to not insult you in the future. Because frankly, I can't begin to imagine what it is that you have a problem with.

Quote:

and his whopping generalizations. I am working in the orthopaedic field and have seen several docs

Ah. So, how many docs do you think I have seen? I mean, if having seen "several" of them is not a "whopping generalization" ...

Quote:

I think that you are just projecting your frustration about your prior difficulty getting an appointment.

It's not "difficulty". First, it's more like "impossibility", and second it's not singular, but plural. This is a general rule, not a one off occurrence.
It is not "mine" either. Perhaps, you did not pay very close attention to what I wrote, but my own "difficulty" getting an appointment is but one example. My frustration is about the sorry state of the health care in the US, not one appointment I had several years ago.

Quote:

Bottom line, if HB is having severe pain than that is what she is having and we are no one to hell her how, where, and when to seek treatment.

Would you say it is also all right (morally, not legaly) for her to park in a handicapped spot while she is seeking that treatment "where and when" she wants?

Weasalman, I really don't want to get into an argument with you. You don't need to apologize to me since you haven't really insulted me. Perhaps I have insulted you by "calling you out" and referring to your posts as rude.

Your posts are directed mainly toward HB and my opinion is that they are rude and I'm sure she feels that way too. Just anytime you diminish someone's pain and suffering without really knowing much about them, there are people who would find that rude. I am going to quote you below and people can judge for themselves if they would see this as rude toward HB:

Quote: weaselman

I have seen people in severe pain, and trust me, they were in no condition to catch a cab and go to an ER for a portion of narcotics to take the edge off.

Quote: weaselman

I am sorry you do not feel great ... but trust me, if you can go to the gym, your pain isn't bad at all. .

Look, it may be that HB is exagerrating her pain and going to the ER more fequently that she should to get a narcotic fix, but neither you, me or really anyone on this forum have enough information to come to this conculsion.

And as far as parking in a handicap spot, I don't even understand that analogy compared to a person in severe pain going to the ER. One is legal the other one is not. As far as being moral, obviously it is immoral to do something illegal unless you are genuinenly trying to prevent yourself or someone else from getting hurt.

Where else are you supposed to go if you are in severe pain and don't have doctor because you are uninsured? That's what ER's and urgent care centers are there for. Obviously, it is a burden on the health care system if the individual can't pay, but this is all part of a larger unsolved health care problem that we are having...

Quote: weaselman

It's not "difficulty". First, it's more like "impossibility", and second it's not singular, but plural. This is a general rule, not a one off occurrence.
It is not "mine" either. Perhaps, you did not pay very close attention to what I wrote, but my own "difficulty" getting an appointment is but one example. My frustration is about the sorry state of the health care in the US, not one appointment I had several years ago.

I'm sorry that you have had an "impossile" time getting a timely appointment. But this may not necessarily be reflective of a doctors low work hours. It may also be an insurance issue as some doctors do not accept insurances that don't pay well. Also, it could be an issue of an overall shortage of doctors in your area in the specialty that you seek. Maybe your experience has been only with docs who work 3 days a week or low hours, but believe me, in gerenal, docs easily do a 40 hour work week and still many of them have appointments that are filled for weeks and months.

As an example, I needed to get my 5 month old son to see a dermatologist for an infected rash on his face. She was booked up for months, but when we told her our situation and what our pediatrician said about being seen soon, they gave us a 6:20AM appointment the next morning. So my experience and many others peoples experience is different than yours in that many of us see docs as working way longer hours that your posts would suggest.

But I do agree with you in the state of health care in the US needing much improvement. This country spends far more than any other country in the world on health care and we do not have the outcomes or satisfaction to show for all the money that is spent. But, that is a topic for another thread or another website for that matter....

Quote: QuadCore

Look, it may be that HB is exagerrating her pain and going to the ER more fequently that she should to get a narcotic fix, but neither you, me or really anyone on this forum have enough information to come to this conculsion.

She is not exaggerating. She really thinks her pain is severe, and unbearable, I am sure.
I am just saying that that is not how that term is usually used. People in severe pain are rolling on the floor gritting their teeth, not going to gyms or riding in cabs.

As I explained earlier, I don't want to belittle what she feels at all, just trying to put things in perspective for her to understand that millions of people actually live their lives for years with pain much worse that what she felt for the last week.

Believe it or not, my motives are kind. Personally, when I was in pain with my back, that I too was finding totally unbearable at first, I have found a lot of comfort in this realization, it made be able to sleep at night, and function almost normally through my every day routine. It is unbelievable what large component of pain is pure psychology. If you think your pain is the worst there can be, you can barely breeze, but if you realize, that it is not uncommon to have it much worse than you, and still be ok, the pain suddenly becomes much less debilitating.

Quote:

And as far as parking in a handicap spot, I don't even understand that analogy compared to a person in severe pain going to the ER. One is legal the other one is not.

I specifically explained that I was talking about moral aspect of it, not the legality of each action.
The analogy is that in both cases you choose to use a facility or a resource, intended to serve a disadvantaged class of people that you don't really belong to.

Quote:

As far as being moral, obviously it is immoral to do something illegal
unless you are genuinenly trying to prevent yourself or someone else from getting hurt.

Not sure I agree with the first part, but fine ...
So, suppose, you are in pain, and are trying to prevent yourself from getting hurt by an extended walk across a parking lot. Would you consider it moral to use a (last available) handicapped spot in that situation?

Quote:

Where else are you supposed to go if you are in severe pain and don't have doctor because you are uninsured?

Hmmm ... I don't know ... A church?

Quote:

That's what ER's and urgent care centers are there for.

No, not at all. ERs aren't charities for treating people who cannot afford a doctor.
They are there for helping people who will die or suffer a severe irreversible harm if they do not receive immediate medical attention.

Quote:

Obviously, it is a burden on the health care system if the individual can't pay, but this is all part of a larger unsolved health care problem that we are having...

Yes. And it has nothing to do with the issue at hand too.
My point is that ER is not the place to go for treatment of chronic pain. Whether you are insured or not is irrelevant to this discussion.

Quote: QuadCore

I'm sorry that you have had an "impossile" time getting a timely appointment.

I did not have an "impossible time". The time was fine (except for the fact that I was in constant pain of course). The "impossible" part about it was actually getting the appointment.

Quote:

But this may not necessarily be reflective of a doctors low work hours.

Yes, I know. It's just a "circumstantial evidence". I listed some more direct observations in the same post though.

Quote:

It may also be an insurance issue as some doctors do not accept insurances that don't pay well.

They have no problem accepting my insurance. Just not within a few months from the time I actually need it.
They were happy to schedule an appointment six months from then.

Quote:

Also, it could be an issue of an overall shortage of doctors in your area in the specialty that you seek.

It's not just one specialty. Getting pretty much any specialist appointment (except for, maybe, general surgery) has pretty much the same waiting times.
My area is hardly "middle of nowhere". It has several hospitals, considered some of the most prestigious institutions in the US by the doctors seeking employment there.

Quote:

Maybe your experience has been only with docs who work 3 days a week or low hours, but believe me, in gerenal, docs easily do a 40 hour work week and still many of them have appointments that are filled for weeks and months.

I can believe you that in your experience the latter is true. Kinda resent your "whopping" generalization though.

Quote:

As an example, I needed to get my 5 month old son to see a dermatologist for an infected rash on his face. She was booked up for months, but when we told her our situation and what our pediatrician said about being seen soon, they gave us a 6:20AM appointment the next morning.

That does not mean they are working "long hours" though, does it? "Early hours" yeah ... but "long"? I mean, think about it. How many patients do you think that dermatologist have?
Say, she is working 40 hours per week, 15 minutes per appointment - 160 different patients per week. In three months, that's almost 2000 people. Possible? I guess, if you live in a fairly large city really lucking dermatologists ... Likely? Doubt it.

Quote:

So my experience and many others peoples experience is different than yours in that many of us see docs as working way longer hours that your posts would suggest.

I don't know about "many other people" (I bet, there are even more people whose experience is different from yours ;)).
But your experience actually seems to be exactly the same as mine. You have to beg a doctor to see you unless your condition is insignificant enough to wait for a few months. It is your interpretation that is different, but that is because you simply assumed some (non-obvious) stuff about it, while I actually asked the real live people who know the answer.

Ok you're using the handicap analogy to say if is morally ok to use a resource that you are not entitled to even if is your last resort. I understand the concept, but I dont think this analogy applies to ERs because every person in America is entitled to this resource assuming that the person reasonably feels that they are having an emergency. I understand that the ER is not the best place to treat chronic pain, but the problem is when you have an episode of severe pain you don't know at that time if there not a serious underlying issue like cauda equina syndrome or something that can cause severe harm. You're just freaked out and want treatment and think that this time there may be something serious going on that can cause serious harm.

ERs are full of people who do not have an immediate need for care like sprained ankles, nosebleeds, fever. It's the ER docs job to figure out who needs immediate attention and who doesn't. A layperson doesn't know if he/she is in the process of suffering irreversible harm. I think your criteria for going to the ER is very strict. Many ERs would be out of business if they catered only to individuals who will die or suffer a severe irreversible harm. Plus I still don't get where you would go if you are uninsured and have severe debilitating pain. I guess you can go to a church and scream "O God!" repeatedly until the priest gets tired of you screaming and takes you to the ER himself. The best situation would be to try to get hooked up with a PCP, or back specialist or pain management specialist using state sponsored insurance or self pay or private insurance and hopefully that person will be able to help you and save you some trips to the ER. Of course, in the mean time you need to work on the psychological aspect of it too and hopefully that will make you feel better. However, this is probably the hardest part and takes the longest to do.

Quote: weaselman

I can believe you that in your experience the latter is true. Kinda resent your "whopping" generalization though.

It's not a whopping gerneralization that the majority of docs work at least 40 hours per week. Most people would agree with that and you can look it up and find out for yourself too. You make a whooping generalization that docs work less that the average American based on the difficulty procuring an appointment in your area of the country.

Quote: weaselman

That does not mean they are working "long hours" though, does it? "Early hours" yeah ... but "long"? I mean, think about it. How many patients do you think that dermatologist have?
Say, she is working 40 hours per week, 15 minutes per appointment - 160 different patients per week. In three months, that's almost 2000 people. Possible? I guess, if you live in a fairly large city really lucking dermatologists ... Likely? Doubt it.

Doctor's do a lot more than see patients in clinic. They do minor procedures, dictate, take phone calls, etc

Quote: weaselman

But your experience actually seems to be exactly the same as mine. You have to beg a doctor to see you unless your condition is insignificant enough to wait for a few months. It is your interpretation that is different, but that is because you simply assumed some (non-obvious) stuff about it, while I actually asked the real live people who know the answer.

I did not beg anyone to see my son. I just asked and was told yes. If this doc could not accomodate me I would have gone somewhere else. And as far as asking a real live people, you can ask me. I am a MD and most of my colleague work longer hours than your post would suggest and SOOPOO can confirm this too

I really shouldn't have called you out for being rude. Seems like it has got you fired up

Quote: QuadCore

Ok you're using the handicap analogy to say if is morally ok to use a resource that you are not entitled to even if is your last resort.

If you think it is your last resort.

Quote:

I understand the concept, but I dont think this analogy applies to ERs because every person in America is entitled to this resource assuming that the person reasonably feels that they are having an emergency.

Legally, yes. Because legally ER is not able to refuse you service. But we are nto talking about legality, remember?

Quote:

I understand that the ER is not the best place to treat chronic pain

Only in the same sense as handicapped spot is not the best place to park unless you are disabled.
I mean, an ER doc can write you a script for pain killers just as well as your PCP could ... but, just like with handicapped spots, it is not about what they can do, it is what about they are not doing while they are helping you.

Quote:

but the problem is when you have an episode of severe pain you don't know at that time if there not a serious underlying issue like cauda equina syndrome or something that can cause severe harm.

Indeed. False alarms happen (and aren't morally reprehensible). But it does not have anything to do with the situation being discussed, so I am not sure why you are bringing it up.

Quote:

ERs are full of people who do not have an immediate need for care

And that is in your mind a perfectly good justification for adding one more? :)

Quote:

Many ERs would be out of business if they catered only to individuals who will die or suffer a severe irreversible harm.

Yeah, right. I am sure, it is especially helping those who go there because they can't afford to pay that's keeping them in business :)
ERs are almost never profitable. They exist because the government requires that hospitals have them.

Quote:

Plus I still don't get where you would go if you are uninsured and have severe debilitating pain.

What I don't get is why you keep bringing it up (especially, after having said yourself that the sorry state of US health care system, where a doctor will charge you hundreds of bucks for a stupid percoset prescription, simply because he can, and because you have nowhere else to go, and he knows it, is a topic for a different thread). To answer your question, I don't get it either. But, you would not only need to be uninsured, but, pretty much a street bum if you can't afford a couple of hundred bucks to get a doctor's appointment. And, if you are a street bum, trust me, you are no stranger to pain. Most likely, you won't go anywhere, and just wait for it (the pain) to go away. Many people, who are not street bums, and who even have great insurance, live with the pain every day. It is possible, albeit unpleasant.

Quote: QuadCore

It's not a whopping gerneralization that the majority of docs work at least 40 hours per week.

Sure it is. You said you've seen some docs who work a lot, and concluded from that that "in general the majority of doctors work at least 40 hours per week". If that's not "whopping", I don't know what is.

Quote:

Most people would agree with that and you can look it up and find out for yourself too.

No. Most people agree with me.

Quote:

I did not beg anyone to see my son. I just asked and was told yes.

You were actually told "no" when you asked. Until you begged ...

Quote:

If this doc could not accomodate me I would have gone somewhere else.

Yup. Been there :)
Good luck.

Quote:

I really shouldn't have called you out for being rude. Seems like it has got you fired up

And are you saying that when you were going to call me out you were expecting some kind of a different effect? :)
What do you think "call out" actually means? "Call" where? "Out" of where? For what purpose?

Quote: QuadCore

Bottom line, if HB is having severe pain than that is what she is having and we are no one to hell her how, where, and when to seek treatment. We are no one to tell her to suck it up.

Thank you for this. People are entitled to their opinions but I agree that weaselman does come off very negatively and not in a way where he's coming from a place of concern or compassion.

Quote: QuadCore

It is nearly impossible to get someone with chronic pain to exercise and the fact that HB is still exercising is commendable.

Although it is true over the first week and a half of being in pain I was still able to exercise with the same intensity I have not been able to do much cardio over the last week or so, only going once and just walking at a slow-moderate pace on the treadmill. Today, sadly, I had to call and cancel my counseling/therapy appointment because of the pain. Daily I've been calling and trying to see if I can get an appointment with my PCP so she can get me in to see someone about pain management but every day I call and there are no appointments available. My appointment with my back doctor is next Wednesday, a week from today, and sadly I may have to just lay around and wait until then. If that's the case I am worried because I am unable to work in the condition I am in and I have no money for groceries and no money for my upcoming rent that's due.

Quote: QuadCore

However, the feeling of success at meeting your goal and winning the battle against obesity after years of dieting and failing and finally making it will definately be a better feeling in the long run than getting the money.

To be honest with you I have been looking forward to my weigh-in date because I plan on going to a club that night and dancing and feeling great about my accomplishment. I did a lot of research online last night as far as Vegas clubs go and I can't wait to get all dressed up and glammed up and go show off my new body and just be in bliss. And although my body won't be in the exact shape I want it to be in at that point and there will be a lot of girls with "hotter" bodies than mine, it won't matter to me cuz that night is about letting my confidence shine through.

Quote: weaselman

I am sorry if you found my posts rude. Really. I apologize.

Could you please explain though what exactly was it about them you found deserving of such label, so that I know how to not insult you in the future. Because frankly, I can't begin to imagine what it is that you have a problem with.

I'm not sure if you're being serious here, because if you are then you are completely oblivious to the tone you portray. You come off as very negative and not nice, and yes, even rude. How can you honestly not see that? And this handicapped parking analogy you keep trying to make is not only getting tiresome but also isn't even an analogy and makes no sense.

Quote: QuadCore

Look, it may be that HB is exagerrating her pain and going to the ER more fequently that she should to get a narcotic fix, but neither you, me or really anyone on this forum have enough information to come to this conculsion.

Let me just say, even though I don't feel I should have to defend myself if someone really is accusing me of this, but I am not going to get a narcotic "fix". My weakness at the most is I like to drink alcohol but I've never liked taking drugs, I don't pop pills, I don't like smoking weed, I don't like hallucinogens, inhalants, etc. I don't go to the ER in pain to get high. And in fact I'm often surprised that I don't feel 'loopy' or "high" or anything like that when I do take these drugs for my pain. I'm told that that is because people who usually take it for recreation do so when they are in no pain to begin with and so it affects them differently. Honestly I don't like the narcotics I've been taking because of the side effects such as constipation, dry mouth, and sexual disfunction. So I'm not sure if anyone on here is thinking that that's why I've been going but if someone were to accuse me of that they'd be wasting their time making false accusations for no other reason than that you're bored and find it fun to meddle in my business.

And I had said earlier in the thread that I spent time with SOOPOO in April while I was in pain so you can ask him about my situation. When I was out there I was on a few medications for the moderate pain I was in then and even taking them as prescribed I was still having a hard time dealing with the pain. But not only that I had asked him if I could take it more frequently since it didn't seem to be helping in the dose that I was taking it and although he said no that it was prescribed for me to take it just as it was labeled that it was clear that the amounts I was taking was not enough because I was worried that drinking alcohol with the drugs would be bad but in fact it actually helped me.

Quote: weaselman

As I explained earlier, I don't want to belittle what she feels at all, just trying to put things in perspective for her to understand that millions of people actually live their lives for years with pain much worse that what she felt for the last week.

You don't know the pain that I'm experiencing so you can't make that assessment. And severe pain is a 7,8,9 or 10 on a scale from 0 to 10. It's not just a 10 that's considered severe. And every time I've gone to the ER it's only when it's gotten worse that it's now severe.

Quote: weaselman

Believe it or not, my motives are kind.

You honestly don't come off that way at all.

Quote: HotBlonde

I'm not sure if you're being serious here, because if you are then you are completely oblivious to the tone you portray. You come off as very negative and not nice, and yes, even rude. How can you honestly not see that?

I can see that I am coming off (to you) as "negative". I know by now that you are calling "negative" anyone who ever tries to point out a remote possibility that you could sometimes be kinda sorta not exactly right.
So, that does not surprise me.
But "rude"? Really?

Quote:

And this handicapped parking analogy you keep trying to make is not only getting tiresome but also isn't even an analogy and makes no sense.

Now, this was rude in my book. If you want to argue, make an argument, if you can't, don't.
You don't get to just arrogantly label someone else's point like it is unworthy of your valuable attention. That's rude and unbecoming.

Quote:

You don't know the pain that I'm experiencing so you can't make that assessment.

Yes, actually, I can. As I told you before, I know back pain better than I would like to, and I can tell you authoritatively, if your pain was only moderately bad by the standards of those people I mentioned in the paragraph you quoted, you would not be riding cabs and going to the gym. You would not be sleeping at night, and dread the mere idea of having to get into a car.

Quote:

And severe pain is a 7,8,9 or 10 on a scale from 0 to 10. It's not just a 10 that's considered severe.

Yes. If you were at 10, you'd be barely conscious, we are not talking about that kind of pain.
What I am describing to you, isn't really a 7 either ... probably, more like 5 or 6.

Quote: HotBlonde

People are entitled to their opinions but I agree that weaselman does come off very negatively and not in a way where he's coming from a place of concern or compassion.

Oh, pay no attention to mkl jr. You'll run across his type all over the internet. He's just interedted in winning the argument, as he conceives the argument to be. Most likely he doens't even care about what's being argued. Just block him and spare yourself the grief.

Quote:

If that's the case I am worried because I am unable to work in the condition I am in and I have no money for groceries and no money for my upcoming rent that's due.

That sounds a lot more serious than what you've been posting about lately. I hope there's someone nearby who can give you a hand. Also, I've no idea what the situation is in claifornia, but can you get some sort of worker's comp or disability because you're not able to work? You should look into it.

Quote: weaselman

As I told you before, I know back pain better than I would like to, and I can tell you authoritatively, if your pain was only moderately bad by the standards of those people I mentioned in the paragraph you quoted, you would not be riding cabs and going to the gym. You would not be sleeping at night, and dread the mere idea of having to get into a car.

It's like you read what you want in this thread. You think I sat comfortably and peacefully in the back of the cab on the way to the hospital? I was in a ton of pain, bent over and moaning the entire time. I don't need to be incapacitated in order to qualify to go to the ER. And, AGAIN, I had said that the days that I went to the gym my pain was under control at that time. I don't go to the gym when I am in severe pain, I usually don't do anything when I'm in severe pain other than lay in bed because that's about all I can do. And my pain isn't constant. It comes and goes. I can wake up and it can be at a 6, I can take pills and make it go down to a 4, it can go up higher and down lower and back and forth throughout the day and throughout each week. When it shoots up to the point that I can't handle it on my own then I go to get help. Luckily I'm not in a 7 or above each and every day but unfortunately I have been there and it's not easy to deal with. But I don't think you're in a position to tell me how I should deal with my pain. I am doing what I need to do. Do you think I actually like going to the ER? Don't you think there are THOUSANDS of other things I could be doing with my time? And after my April to May pain situation I was in I was practically fine until about 2 and half weeks ago when it started up again. And I continued to follow my program and go to the gym because I wasn't gonna let the pain stop me. But when that pain went from mild to moderate to severe then the pain does actually get in my way whether I like it or not. I love going to the gym and I love following my program. I need to work too, I'm not liking that this is affecting my income. So instead of doing what it is I usually do I sometimes, like today and the last few days, have got to lay in bed to keep the pain level low and spend my time online to keep myself occupied because there is nothing else I can do. And I've been trying to do my physical therapy each day as well if I can. But as of yesterday doing this seemed to just inflame the situation so I have to back off and give my body a rest.

Quote: HotBlonde

It's like you read what you want in this thread. You think I sat comfortably and peacefully in the back of the cab on the way to the hospital?

No, it's like you read what you want :) Where do you think I said that?

Quote:

I don't need to be incapacitated in order to qualify to go to the ER.

That depends on what you mean by "qualify".

Quote: HotBlonde

And I had said earlier in the thread that I spent time with SOOPOO in April while I was in pain so you can ask him about my situation. When I was out there I was on a few medications for the moderate pain I was in then and even taking them as prescribed I was still having a hard time dealing with the pain. But not only that I had asked him if I could take it more frequently since it didn't seem to be helping in the dose that I was taking it and although he said no that it was prescribed for me to take it just as it was labeled that it was clear that the amounts I was taking was not enough because I was worried that drinking alcohol with the drugs would be bad but in fact it actually helped me.

As I told HB at the time, I was not her doctor and wasn't going to get involved with her doctor's dosing decisions. Alcohol is a potent pain killer, and as long as the side effects from combining alcohol with narcotics doesn't kill you, yes, it will make you feel better.
Of course I can't tell how much pain HB was in, but I can tell you she appeared to be in a lot of pain, constantly trying to find a position that would be comfortable for her.
As far as the main question of this thread, ERs might have been originally designed to take care of emergencies only, but now they are clearly the non emergent care providers for the poor and uninsured, those that have absolutely no plan to ever pay for their care. Seriously, who else would take care of the patient walking in the door saying... I'm in pain, I want you to take care of me, I want you to write me narcotic prescriptions, I want you to arrange specialist consultations, I want you to order and perform tests, I want to have appointments that fit my calendar, and, oh yeah, I will not pay you!
As a FORMER pain management doctor, I can tell you how time consuming ONE chronic pain patient is.

Quote: SOOPOO

As a FORMER pain management doctor,
.

I have been in pain from time to time, and when the
subject comes up with my doctor, he acts like I asked
to borrow money from him. He gets very defensive.
I noticed awhile back he got a negative review online
from one of his patients. I told him about it and he
got really angry. He said he gets so many patients that
all want him to give them narcotics, and they flip out
when he won't do it. He says its way way worse now
than it was 25 years ago and doctors are fed up with
the junkie mentality that seems to be taking over.

Weaselman, the way you dissect every argument is wierd to me and I know you are going to dissect this one as well. I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but, dude, you're way out there in left field. The reason I called you out for being rude on the HB challenge thread is because I thought you were spreading negativity on the HB thread and talking about what HB should do with HER life from YOUR moral point of view. I think what's moral varies widely between person to person. You may think it is immoral for an uninsured person, who is making a reasonable attempt to get a doctor's appointment and who is willing to pay for her care, to go to the ER for an acute exacerbation of her chronic pain. Other people may not see things from that moral point of view and feel that an ER should be more open to various problems. That's why we have laws because people have different moral view points (ex. the law against parking in handicap spots). If this democracy works correctly, then the moral viewpoints of the majority will be reflected in law as long as it does not violate the constitution.

Then you go talking about how you would rate HB's pain. What?! Who gave you the right to judge someones pain level without ever even laying eyes on her. I'm calling BS on that one.

Also, how do you know ER's don't make money? where are you getting that one from? I suspect this varies from hospital to hospital, but every hospital will make a strong attempt to make sure that their ER does make money and lots of it. They do not just treat the uninsured, and they do try to find ways for these uninsured to get some form of state sponsored insurance

And then you go about stating that I said some thing that I never said. Where did you get all that stuff from in your quote below. I said that the US healthcare system needs improvement. I said nothing about doctors charging for Percocet prescriptions blah blah. What? Now you're making up stuff about what I said. I think this stems from your general dislike of doctors from your experience and is not at all reflective of the entire US health care system.

Quote: weaselman

(especially, after having said yourself that the sorry state of US health care system, where a doctor will charge you hundreds of bucks for a stupid percoset prescription, simply because he can, and because you have nowhere else to go, and he knows it, is a topic for a different thread)

Finally, you keep defending your perspective that doctor's don't work even work that hard and that is why it is so difficult for you and others you know to find a timely appointment? For me and many others, it is obvious that the majority of doctors work at least many hours as the average Americans if not more. It is not a whopping generalization. I actually challenge you to this point. We can post a yes/no poll on this very forum "Do the majority of practicing medical doctors work at least 40 hours a week?" Whoever wins this vote has to publically and explicitly state on this forum that they were wrong in this matter and then keep there mouth shut on this and the HB thread until the weigh in regarding all matters regardless except posts to encourage and sympathize with HB.

PS do not try to dissect this thread with a million quotes.

Quote: QuadCore

Weaselman, the way you dissect every argument is wierd to me and I know you are going to dissect this one as well. I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but, dude, you're way out there in left field. The reason I called you out for being rude on the HB challenge thread is because I thought you were spreading negativity on the HB thread and talking about what HB should do with HER life from YOUR moral point of view. I think what's moral varies widely between person to person. You may think it is immoral for an uninsured person, who is making a reasonable attempt to get a doctor's appointment and who is willing to pay for her care, to go to the ER for an acute exacerbation of her chronic pain. Other people may not see things from that moral point of view and feel that an ER should be more open to various problems. That's why we have laws because people have different moral view points (ex. the law against parking in handicap spots). If this democracy works correctly, then the moral viewpoints of the majority will be reflected in law as long as it does not violate the constitution.

Then you go talking about how you would rate HB's pain. What?! Who gave you the right to judge someones pain level without ever even laying eyes on her. I'm calling BS on that one.

Also, how do you know ER's don't make money? where are you getting that one from? I suspect this varies from hospital to hospital, but every hospital will make a strong attempt to make sure that their ER does make money and lots of it. They do not just treat the uninsured, and they do try to find ways for these uninsured to get some form of state sponsored insurance
O
And then you go about stating that I said some thing that I never said. Where did you get all that stuff from in your quote below. I said that the US healthcare system needs improvement. I said nothing about doctors charging for Percocet prescriptions blah blah. What? Now you're making up stuff about what I said. I think this stems from your general dislike of doctors from your experience and is not at all reflective of the entire US health care system.



Finally, you keep defending your perspective that doctor's don't work even work that hard and that is why it is so difficult for you and others you know to find a timely appointment? For me and many others, it is obvious that the majority of doctors work at least many hours as the average Americans if not more. It is not a whopping generalization. I actually challenge you to this point. We can post a yes/no poll on this very forum "Do the majority of practicing medical doctors work at least 40 hours a week?" Whoever wins this vote has to publically and explicitly state on this forum that they were wrong in this matter and then keep there mouth shut on this and the HB thread until the weigh in regarding all matters regardless except posts to encourage and sympathize with HB.

PS do not try to dissect this thread with a million quotes.

Your wish is my command :) If you don't want me to explore the many weaknesses of your position by responding to your arguments "dissect the thread with million quotes", fine. But don't expect me to read your wall of text in that case. You are not that intersecting.

Ok fair enough but what about the challenge I posed about doctors working 40 hours per week...

Quote: QuadCore

Ok fair enough but what about the challenge I posed about doctors working 40 hours per week...

Don't know. Haven't read it, remember?

Ok friend have a good life :)

Quote: QuadCore

Ok friend have a good life :)

Quad- do I remember correctly... are you a doctor?

Yes I'm a resident currently doing a research year.