Why is my Fico score so low?
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32 members have voted
The following is my Facebook post today, which I am interested to get thoughts on.
I just checked my Fico score and was unpleasantly surprised to see how low it is. If we assume scores are distributed on a uniform basis from 250 to 900, then that would mean 21% of people have a higher score. To put it in comparison to Texas Hold 'Em starting hands, my score is a Q-10 off-suit.
Maybe I should be thankful, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be a perfect 900. I absolutely loathe debt. Most bills I overpay and on my credit card I'm on auto-pay for the full balance. House payments I have always made on time and usually paid off well ahead of schedule.
On the plus side, I don't really care. I just feel insulted.
The question for the poll is what is your Fico score?
Quote: Wizard
The following is my Facebook post today, which I am interested to get thoughts on.
I just checked my Fico score and was unpleasantly surprised to see how low it is. If we assume scores are distributed on a uniform basis from 250 to 900, then that would mean 21% of people have a higher score. To put it in comparison to Texas Hold 'Em starting hands, my score is a Q-10 off-suit.
Maybe I should be thankful, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be a perfect 900. I absolutely loathe debt. Most bills I overpay and on my credit card I'm on auto-pay for the full balance. House payments I have always made on time and usually paid off well ahead of schedule.
On the plus side, I don't really care. I just feel insulted.
The question for the poll is what is your Fico score?
it's also how much credit you use compared to the overall credit you have.
ie: my FICO credit score as of 2 months ago is 825 out of 850, according to Capital One. (When did fico start using a 900 rating???)
like you, im debt free.
i have over a dozen credit cards, all with zero balance. I have maybe $100k worth of combined credit on those cards.
i use maybe $1k a month.
1k/100k = 1% usage.
the lower usage of your overall credit line, the higher your score.
also, length of credit card ownership helps too.
my oldest credit card is like 20 years old.
also, 6/2(2+1) = 6/2*3 = 9
but 20years ago, it would have been 6/6 = 1
Why did it change in that time???
I believe the current FICO scores max out at 850. Any FICO score over 740 will generally get you the best interest rates on future loans. My credit score usually hovers in the low 800's but recent late payments by my daughter on her student loan has lowered mine (I co-signed for her).
If you haven't tried CreditKarma, it is a great free site that will show you your scores and any derogatory remarks on your file. It will also warn you anytime new accounts are opened and any new negative remarks on the account.
https://www.fico.com/blogs/average-u-s-fico-score-hits-new-high
I find that the big drivers of score from my own historical experience:
1) Paying everything on time
2) Having a high Ratio of available credit to unused credit (so credit cards with a high limit but not very used).
3) never canceling a credit card
they also say:
Quote:Your Score is calculated using positive and negative information on your TransUnion® credit report. It summarizes your risk to lenders at a specific point in time. FICO® Scores consider the following 5 categories of information. The breakdown below illustrates the significance of these categories for the general population. Note, however, that your individual score may give some factors more or less importance based on the information in your credit report.
Payment history: 35%
Amount you owe: 30%
Length of credit history: 15%
New credit opened: 10%
Types of credit you have: 10%
they also show a chart indicating average scores increase with age alone, and I am getting a bit long in the tooth
As to the max score, What Is a Perfect Credit Score? gets into the 900. Briefly, my interpretation is there is a separate fico score for auto loans, that goes to 900.
As to canceling credit cards, yes, I do that sometimes. I have been known to take advantage of some promotion, use the card once, pay it off ASAP, never use it for about a year, and then cut it in half and send it to the company.
Currently I have one credit card with a $500 limit and another with $19,000. Strange.
Quote: WizardThanks for the great comments everybody.
As to the max score, What Is a Perfect Credit Score? gets into the 900. Briefly, my interpretation is there is a separate fico score for auto loans, that goes to 900.
As to canceling credit cards, yes, I do that sometimes. I have been known to take advantage of some promotion, use the card once, pay it off ASAP, never use it for about a year, and then cut it in half and send it to the company.
Currently I have one credit card with a $500 limit and another with $19,000. Strange.
I would suggest that you apply for more no annual fee credit cards. When they show up activate them and tuck them away to never be used. Or, just use them enough to achieve the signup bonus and then put them away.
Quote: WizardMaybe I should be thankful, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be a perfect 900. I absolutely loathe debt. Most bills I overpay and on my credit card I'm on auto-pay for the full balance. House payments I have always made on time and usually paid off well ahead of schedule.
I'm the same way, and mine is usually around 800. I am under the impression that it's not higher than that because I don't have debt - which means there is no evidence that if I did need to have debt for some reason, then I would be able to pay it off.
I bought a new car recently, and paid cash for it, but as part of the process, I had to put in a credit application - which ended up being turned down because I had a poor history of auto loans. In this case, "poor history of auto loans" means, "I haven't made car payments since 1988"; when I bought my first car in 1984, somehow I ended up with a 19%/year note, so ever since then, it has always been cash up front.
Quote: ThatDonGuyI'm the same way, and mine is usually around 800. I am under the impression that it's not higher than that because I don't have debt - which means there is no evidence that if I did need to have debt for some reason, then I would be able to pay it off.
I bought a new car recently, and paid cash for it, but as part of the process, I had to put in a credit application - which ended up being turned down because I had a poor history of auto loans. In this case, "poor history of auto loans" means, "I haven't made car payments since 1988"; when I bought my first car in 1984, somehow I ended up with a 19%/year note, so ever since then, it has always been cash up front.
I don't know your exact situation, but it is generally not the best to pay cash for the car. Many manufacturers offer a 0% loan for 60 months and by financing it you can get a better price on the car as the dealer makes a few hundred dollars for selling the loan. When I can I finance the car and pay it off when the first bill comes. I am an ardent believer in saving every dollar possible when buying a car and if the dealer can make a couple hundred dollars off me from selling the loan, then I expect to get the car for a couple hundred dollars less and it didn't cost me anything to finance.
Quote: from the pollIn applying for credit, do casinos check it?
Casinos do not check with the regular credit bureaus normally and perhaps close to never . They have their own credit bureau. If you do not have a record with that, they call your bank, and possibly always call your bank when you renew or whatever.
If you are interested and missed some blogs on the subject, I will create a new blog listing them.
Yeah, what positively or adversely affects your FICO score is often counterintuitive. When I sold my house a few years ago, my credit score took an immediate 50 point hit because I no longer had a mortgage. I would think that demonstrating the ability to pay off my debts would be a good thing, but I was penalized for it.Quote: billryanI pity those who worship at Fair Isaacs altar. Personally, I'd rather deal with a person who doesn't borrow money than a person with an extensive history of paying back money they borrowed, which is all your FICO score is. It doesn't take into account your wealth,just how good you are at borrowing money and paying it back. I like people who don't borrow. I realize it's a quaint idea.
I currently have a 797 and got my 540 up to over 700 without paying a single debt that was owed. I spent hundreds of hours researching how to do it
Anyways, the quick answer is your score is suffering because you dont have debt. Banks dont really want to lend to you because they cant make money off of you. If you have a certain mix of debt you will be over 800 because you pay on time and they think they can make money off of you.
The entire FICO thing is a game. Play it right and you can live debt free with a high score. Play it wrong and you will suffer. Maybe after work I can post a little more.
Quote: WizardThanks for the great comments everybody.
As to the max score, What Is a Perfect Credit Score? gets into the 900. Briefly, my interpretation is there is a separate fico score for auto loans, that goes to 900.
As to canceling credit cards, yes, I do that sometimes. I have been known to take advantage of some promotion, use the card once, pay it off ASAP, never use it for about a year, and then cut it in half and send it to the company.
Currently I have one credit card with a $500 limit and another with $19,000. Strange.
Sorry if this is repetitive, but I have been in credit 16 years as of this week and people outside of it always misunderstand how FICO works.
First, correct that auto loans use a different model. 850 is a "perfect" FICO, and you are not getting that--more on that later. Auto lenders need to know how people handle fixed term debt not revolving debt. The average person in financial distress blows off credit cards first, mortgage or rent second. and car payment last. Auto lenders need to account for this.
As others pointed out, FICO is a bell curve. And to go from 680-700 is easier than from 700-720. Falling works the same. You will not get a perfect score as they make it impossible. If you "fix" one thing it hurts another. Say you cancel a credit card to lower potential debt, it shortens your total age of credit. I have seen wealthy celeb credit reports do not get "perfect." Above 780 quit bothering gaming the system and find a new hobby as it does not matter, you are in the top few %.
On the bottom, oh my. Once I had a co-worker call in and ask about getting a guy some kind of exemption. He had like a 510. I told her I would not bother to ask, she pressed and I said, "Imagine the whole USA is 100 people in a room. 98 are less risk than he is."
As to your limits, that is lender policies. Capital One is known for not giving high limits but will issue several different cards. The good banks will give higher limits.
Quote: GWAEI was I had the time to give a dissertation on the subject. I like to think that I am an expert on the subject. In 2008 I had a 540 credit score due to being an idiot when I closed a business in 2004. Hint: when you are a sole proprietorship, that does not mean you can walk away from bills.
I currently have a 797 and got my 540 up to over 700 without paying a single debt that was owed. I spent hundreds of hours researching how to do it
An interesting thing here is bankruptcy and how to handle it. Most people will hold out as long as possible and get tons of "lates" on their report. A smart lawyer will tell you that if it is going to happen just file and get it over with as then you just have one "BANKRUPTCY" derog and not 20 "LATES."
Yes, crazy, but that is they system.
My wife's is 950 or whatever the
highest score possible is. Of
which she is disproportionally
proud.. Show off.
Quote: odiousgambitCasinos do not check with the regular credit bureaus normally and perhaps close to never.
This delusion must be smashed. ALL the major casinos pull credit as part of granting credit lines.
Read this post and my blog on casino credit carefully:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/gambling-with-an-edge/33213-parttime-ap-prospects/13/#post726731
My FICO score varies between 750 and 850, and all it takes to bring it down is charging a bunch (like 10K or 20K) on a revolving credit card like Visa or Master Card. I tend to charge a lot on my credit cards that give me a full 2% cash rebate. As soon as I pay the card(s) off, my credit score shoots back up. I pay off all of my credit cards in full each month, but sometimes charge as much as $50K on just one or two cards in a month. There is a time lag of weeks before the credit bureau reflects the balance but also unfortunately a time lag of weeks before the bureau reflects that it is paid off.
This is one advantage of AMEX - as long as you pay it off in full having a large balance on it doesn't seem to affect your credit one way or another, even temporarily but with set credit line cards like VISA and Master Card, any balance you have on the cards does affect your credit, especially if that balance reflects over 40% of the credit line.
In general, if you care about the "snapshot" of your FICO score at that moment, and wish to use a credit card to make a large purchase, try to use one with a high line, where the % of use remains as low as possible. Max out any credit card, let alone more than one, and your credit score will plummet until the card(s) are paid off.
By the way, getting a credit card and never using it will result in its eventual closure.
Quote: MDawgThis delusion must be smashed. ALL the major casinos pull credit as part of granting credit lines.
Try and get a job or rent an
apartment without them
checking your credit rating.
Last year the local quickie
mart had a help wanted
sign up forever. The manager
told me nobody passed the
FICO check, they all had bad
credit. This chain had learned
the hard way that bad credit
usually means roaming fingers
in the till.
Quote: billryanI pity those who worship at Fair Isaacs altar. Personally, I'd rather deal with a person who doesn't borrow money than a person with an extensive history of paying back money they borrowed, which is all your FICO score is. It doesn't take into account your wealth,just how good you are at borrowing money and paying it back. I like people who don't borrow. I realize it's a quaint idea.
I consider people who don't borrow at 0% interest and no fees to be fools.
Quote: MDawg
This is one advantage of AMEX - as long as you pay it off in full having a large balance on it doesn't seem to affect your credit one way or another, even temporarily but with set credit line cards like VISA and Master Card, any balance you have on the cards does affect your credit, especially if that balance reflects over 40% of the credit line.
In general, if you care about the "snapshot" of your FICO score at that moment, and wish to use a credit card to make a large purchase, try to use one with a high line, where the % of use remains as low as possible. Max out any credit card, let alone more than one, and your credit score will plummet until the card(s) are paid off.
By the way, getting a credit card and never using it will result in its eventual closure.
I use my Amex exclusively for day to day purchases. The Amex is not considered a revolving credit card.
I have many credit cards that haven't been used in 15 years and are still open. About 5 years ago I went to make a major purchase at Sears. I pulled out my Sears card and the cashier laughed. It didn't have a chip or a mag stripe it was so old. With that card you still needed to use an old knuckle-cruncher with carbon paper.
Quote: MDawgThis delusion must be smashed. ALL the major casinos pull credit as part of granting credit lines.
Did you read the comments at your own blog post?
I learned from you that there is a credit bureau for casino credit. I eventually requested and got my own individual credit report, you are correct that they are required to give it to you and is generally under the *same rules* as the well known credit companies like Equifax.
However, it is *not* the same credit bureau system as consumer credit!! In other words, the ones used to get your credit cleared for buying a car or getting a credit card. Importantly, I believe you normally get no record of inquiry at all. Not just "no hard pull" but no record at all at the regular, non-casino credit bureaus [ I have checked this - in my case no record - there could be exceptions]
PS: I imagine an exception might be where someone asks for the ability to get very large markers indeed. Also, if you fail to pay your markers off, this might eventually ruin your credit generally.
I did Credit Karma recently and was pleasantly surprised how high my credit score actually was, considering I really only started using a credit card over the last five or six years. I have never never bought anything on credit before that, not even a car. I never really paid attention to my debt to credit ratio on that card I didn't even have auto-pay set up. I'm sure I forgot to pay it off more than a few times. Before that, I would pay everything in cash or just use the debit card. Once the local car rentals made it difficult to use your debit card I broke down and got a credit card because I had to(FYI, I don't think I've used a personal check in over 20 years).Quote: DRichMy first question is how much revolving credit do you have? Personally, I have lots of credit cards because I try to AP all of the good airline offers. I keep about 20 credit cards in my safe (thankfully, none have a balance unless it is a 0% introductory offer). I just replaced the flooring in my house and put it all on a 0% card so that is the one card with a balance. Keeping a balance on your accounts actually helps the score a little as long as the ratio is less tan 10%.
I believe the current FICO scores max out at 850. Any FICO score over 740 will generally get you the best interest rates on future loans. My credit score usually hovers in the low 800's but recent late payments by my daughter on her student loan has lowered mine (I co-signed for her).
If you haven't tried CreditKarma, it is a great free site that will show you your scores and any derogatory remarks on your file. It will also warn you anytime new accounts are opened and any new negative remarks on the account.
I recently got another credit card but it didn't show up on credit karma for about 2 or 3 months. I didn't get any kind of alert from credit karma and I have no idea why it took so long for my CC it to even show up in your system.
What's the best value credit card to get that gives you free stuff or whatever? The last CC gave me like $150 with no annual fees. I'm sure I can do better than that.
Quote: AZDuffmanAn interesting thing here is bankruptcy and how to handle it. Most people will hold out as long as possible and get tons of "lates" on their report. A smart lawyer will tell you that if it is going to happen just file and get it over with as then you just have one "BANKRUPTCY" derog and not 20 "LATES."
Yes, crazy, but that is they system.
That is so true. You can have 20 cards all go late and pay them all off. Your report will still show recent lates for 12 months. It will take 3 years for the lates to not matter as much and 3.5 more years for them to fall off. If you would have filed BK then your score would have only sucked for 12-18 months.
However you can get car loans and home loans with lates that are over 12 months old but good luck with a BK
There are multiple credit score models. Whenever you go to somewhere like credit karma they give you a generic model which is not accurate. Some credit cards like Citi will give you a free FICO but they are giving you a model that goes to 900 which scores things differently. They put more weight on certain categories which are more important to them. If you go for a home loan they will use another model that goes to 850 that puts more weight on different things than a cc cares about. Then there is a FICO that car lenders use that also goes to 850 but uses a different method to get the number.
All of these are fair isaac so they are called FICO. You never know which one they are using. You also dont know if they are only using 1 of the 3 bureaus or all 3 combined.
Now when you go to get car insurance or home owners they will use a credit score but it is not a FICO. It is just a credit score. They have their own models to figure out your score
Quote: GWAE
Now when you go to get car insurance or home owners they will use a credit score but it is not a FICO. It is just a credit score. They have their own models to figure out your score
Last time I went for car insurance the agent said they used a blend of MVR and credit, lower numbers being better. For those that doubt it, there is absolutely correlation between good credit and safer drivers.
i did that.Quote: DRichI consider people who don't borrow at 0% interest and no fees to be fools.
took a hit on my credit rating.
my car/home insurance bill went up because rates were based on credit rating.
thats what they said when i called them to ask why my rates went up so much compared to previous years.
Quote: 100xOddsi did that.
took a hit on my credit rating.
my car/home insurance bill went up because rates were based on credit rating.
thats what they said when i called them to ask why my rates went up so much compared to previous years.
Some insurances will pull your credit every year at renewal and will adjust based on score. I don't think it happens that often though. More likely though your rates went up because of the clause in many home owners plans that have a % increase every year. My Allstate policy is like that. I believe it is 6% every year no matter what. Makes no sense why they do that because in 10 years it will be a ridiculous rate and force me to shop around.
I would have 2 cards, one for online and gas stations, and another for larger purchases. Don't like to have a high limit card online to get stolen from. Nowadays cards can be stolen by rando phones at the checkout lines in the local Wal-Mart. Gotta order some Lock Wallets with additional protective sleeves. I also need to learn how to use a phone to pay the fast food bill at the fast food kiosk at the mall.
Quote: Wizard
The following is my Facebook post today, which I am interested to get thoughts on.
I just checked my Fico score and was unpleasantly surprised to see how low it is. If we assume scores are distributed on a uniform basis from 250 to 900, then that would mean 21% of people have a higher score. To put it in comparison to Texas Hold 'Em starting hands, my score is a Q-10 off-suit.
Maybe I should be thankful, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be a perfect 900. I absolutely loathe debt. Most bills I overpay and on my credit card I'm on auto-pay for the full balance. House payments I have always made on time and usually paid off well ahead of schedule.
On the plus side, I don't really care. I just feel insulted.
The question for the poll is what is your Fico score?
Honestly not having debt can put you at a disadvantage.
Bill payments don't matter (as long as you do not get put in collections)....
One factor is active accounts, if you don't have many credit cards (and lines of credit) that ironically can harm you. If you keep a small balance (even just a few dollars) on several cards every month that would probably increase your score.
But, I would not worry about feeling insulted about an arbitrary score that lenders use to measure you, especially if you have no intentions for applying for credit.
Credit score does not really matter for casino credit if that is your fear (as long as it is not beyond horrendous)....
Quote: odiousgambitDid you read the comments at your own blog post?
I learned from you that there is a credit bureau for casino credit. I eventually requested and got my own individual credit report, you are correct that they are required to give it to you and is generally under the *same rules* as the well known credit companies like Equifax.
However, it is *not* the same credit bureau system as consumer credit!! In other words, the ones used to get your credit cleared for buying a car or getting a credit card. Importantly, I believe you normally get no record of inquiry at all. Not just "no hard pull" but no record at all at the regular, non-casino credit bureaus [ I have checked this - in my case no record - there could be exceptions]
PS: I imagine an exception might be where someone asks for the ability to get very large markers indeed. Also, if you fail to pay your markers off, this might eventually ruin your credit generally.
Odious it's like you're trying to school the Pope on Catholicism, I know everything there is to know about casino credit. Yes there are separate bureaus that the casinos use to decide whether to issue credit, but yes they also run your personal credit. It's like you're running off on part of what I said, without considering all of it. Worse, your "I imagine" conjectures are either wrong or not so relevant.
Read this post completely please:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/gambling-with-an-edge/33213-parttime-ap-prospects/13/#post726731
THEN go apply for casino credit at Caesar's, Cosmopolitan, Wynn, M Resort, Treasure Island, Hard Rock, Palms, Golden Nugget, etc. and find the hard pull of the personal credit on your Experian, then come back and let the Pope of Casino Credit know what you found out. Thanks!
P.S. When the Hard Rock
https://www.nccreports.com/application/?hardrocklasvegas
states on the H.R. Vegas credit line application that:
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BY APPLYING, WE WILL PULL A CREDIT REPORT?
they refer to a hard pull of your Experian. They are not warning you about a casino credit bureau!
Quote: MDawgQuote: odiousgambitDid you read the comments at your own blog post?
I learned from you that there is a credit bureau for casino credit. I eventually requested and got my own individual credit report, you are correct that they are required to give it to you and is generally under the *same rules* as the well known credit companies like Equifax.
However, it is *not* the same credit bureau system as consumer credit!! In other words, the ones used to get your credit cleared for buying a car or getting a credit card. Importantly, I believe you normally get no record of inquiry at all. Not just "no hard pull" but no record at all at the regular, non-casino credit bureaus [ I have checked this - in my case no record - there could be exceptions]
PS: I imagine an exception might be where someone asks for the ability to get very large markers indeed. Also, if you fail to pay your markers off, this might eventually ruin your credit generally.
Odious it's like you're trying to school the Pope on Catholicism, I know everything there is to know about casino credit. Yes there are separate bureaus that the casinos use to decide whether to issue credit, but yes they also run your personal credit. It's like you're running off half baked on part of what I said, without considering all of it. Worse, your "I imagine" conjectures are either wrong or irrelevant.
Read this post completely please:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/gambling-with-an-edge/33213-parttime-ap-prospects/13/#post726731
THEN go apply for casino credit at Caesar's, Cosmopolitan, Wynn, M Resort, Treasure Island, Hard Rock, Golden Nugget, etc. and find the hard pull of the personal credit on your Experian, then come back and let the Pope of Casino Credit know what you found out. Thanks!
P.S. When the Hard Rock
https://www.nccreports.com/application/?hardrocklasvegas
states on the H.R. Vegas credit line application that:
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BY APPLYING, WE WILL PULL A CREDIT REPORT?
they refer to a hard pull of your Experian. They are not warning you about a casino credit bureau! Please don't be obtuse.
I have never had a casino credit check reflected on my regular credit reports.
You aren’t responsible for fraudulent charges on your credit card. And most credit cards are very good about spotting fraudulent charges and shutting them down. Just periodically check your card statements, or better yet download the card app so you get a pop up on your smart phone every time it gets used.Quote: ChumpChangeMaybe 750 is an A+ and everything above that is "extra credit."
I would have 2 cards, one for online and gas stations, and another for larger purchases. Don't like to have a high limit card online to get stolen from. Nowadays cards can be stolen by rando phones at the checkout lines in the local Wal-Mart. Gotta order some Lock Wallets with additional protective sleeves. I also need to learn how to use a phone to pay the fast food bill at the fast food kiosk at the mall.
All the major casinos will run your personal credit before granting a credit line. As far as the riff raff casinos for the penny ante players, I couldn't say.
Quote: DRichQuote: MDawgQuote: odiousgambitDid you read the comments at your own blog post?
I learned from you that there is a credit bureau for casino credit. I eventually requested and got my own individual credit report, you are correct that they are required to give it to you and is generally under the *same rules* as the well known credit companies like Equifax.
However, it is *not* the same credit bureau system as consumer credit!! In other words, the ones used to get your credit cleared for buying a car or getting a credit card. Importantly, I believe you normally get no record of inquiry at all. Not just "no hard pull" but no record at all at the regular, non-casino credit bureaus [ I have checked this - in my case no record - there could be exceptions]
PS: I imagine an exception might be where someone asks for the ability to get very large markers indeed. Also, if you fail to pay your markers off, this might eventually ruin your credit generally.
Odious it's like you're trying to school the Pope on Catholicism, I know everything there is to know about casino credit. Yes there are separate bureaus that the casinos use to decide whether to issue credit, but yes they also run your personal credit. It's like you're running off half baked on part of what I said, without considering all of it. Worse, your "I imagine" conjectures are either wrong or irrelevant.
Read this post completely please:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/gambling-with-an-edge/33213-parttime-ap-prospects/13/#post726731
THEN go apply for casino credit at Caesar's, Cosmopolitan, Wynn, M Resort, Treasure Island, Hard Rock, Golden Nugget, etc. and find the hard pull of the personal credit on your Experian, then come back and let the Pope of Casino Credit know what you found out. Thanks!
P.S. When the Hard Rock
https://www.nccreports.com/application/?hardrocklasvegas
states on the H.R. Vegas credit line application that:
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BY APPLYING, WE WILL PULL A CREDIT REPORT?
they refer to a hard pull of your Experian. They are not warning you about a casino credit bureau! Please don't be obtuse.
I have never had a casino credit check reflected on my regular credit reports.
Generally a hard inquiry is only done your very first time applying for credit. So if that was years ago, and you have been a consistently good player (pay back whatever you owe), you likley will not have another hard inquiry and will continue to be granted your standard credit line.
Quote: GandlerGenerally a hard inquiry is only done your very first time applying for credit. So if that was years ago, and you have been a consistently good player (pay back whatever you owe), you likley will not have another hard inquiry and will continue to be granted your standard credit line.
Correct, although the casinos reserve the right to run your credit again at any time, and sometimes do. I have had this happen to me with at least one casino years after I was granted a line.
But you are right, more likely once you are established all they may occasionally keep an eye on are your bank account balances. This, they seem to do without letting you know, at least once a year, and also anytime you ask for a temporary (TTO) or permanent line increase. I've had casino shift managers look at my bank balances when I start playing with my line at a casino where I haven't played in a while. All this makes sense, after all, I'd do some research on a customer too if I hadn't seen him in a while, or once in a while just because.
Quote: MDawgCorrect, although the casinos reserve the right to run your credit again at any time, and sometimes do. I have had this happen to me with at least one casino years after I was granted a line.
But you are right, more likely once you are established all they may occasionally keep an eye on are your bank account balances. This, they seem to do without letting you know, at least once a year, and also anytime you ask for a temporary (TTO) or permanent line increase. I've had casino shift managers look at my bank balances when I start playing with my line at a casino where I haven't played in a while. All this makes sense, after all, I'd do some research on a customer too if I hadn't seen him in a while, or once in a while just because.
Yes checking account checks are pretty standard.
But, it is always good to read contracts because unexpected hard inquiries are never fun. Many companies will only do such if you want to increase your credit line or make some sort of change.
My insurance agent told me I had good credit that would help my insurance costs. I said, "oh you can see my credit score in there? " She said," no ,not really, but kina, we use a totally different number system." I can't remember exactly what she said, but it was something that went up to 70. She went on to tell me that the average here in Vegas was low like 35.Quote: AZDuffmanLast time I went for car insurance the agent said they used a blend of MVR and credit, lower numbers being better. For those that doubt it, there is absolutely correlation between good credit and safer drivers.
So there are at least two of us who can say that!Quote: DRichI have never had a casino credit check reflected on my regular credit reports.
I did say I can't be sure if other people don't experience the same thing I have, and there's no point in saying you are mistaken or a liar or whatever when it simply may be your experience has been different than mine.Quote: MDawgOdious it's like you're trying to school the Pope on Catholicism, I know everything there is to know about casino credit. Yes there are separate bureaus that the casinos use to decide whether to issue credit, but yes they also run your personal credit. It's like you're running off on part of what I said, without considering all of it.
Now, I have given you some dap on this too: I did learn a lot from what you have posted
The thing is, I approached getting casino credit very cautiously when I had reason to get it for myself. I wondered if an inquiry from a casino is a good thing to have on your personal credit report if you will be trying to buy a car or refinance a house etc. So I waited until I knew I wasn't going to be applying for those types of things before I applied for casino credit at MGM [Gold Strike in Tunica]; since then, 4 other casinos. So even though I didn't need to apply for new credit otherwise, I've been relieved to see that there has been no record of all the casino credit applications when I do my free credit report checks. When I've posted about it here, I wanted to share that information. Maybe it's good that you are countering that you can't count on this.
You certainly document that they can check with the 3 majors if they want to when you sign on the dotted line. Also, I've never checked with Experian specifically, I'll have to do that if I am due for a free one.Quote:Read this post completely please:
The card stopped working one day and I figured it was the chip or magnetic strip thing. I only used the card when I travel for expenses and whatnot, but I just didn't have very many different expences since then, so didn't really bother to get a new card with a working chip/magnetic strip (or so I thought that was the issue).
They lowered the credit on that card from $3,500 to $500. My other two cards I have $15k and $20k limits.
Darn banksters; scoundrels -- all of them!!!
Quote: AxelWolfMy insurance agent told me I had good credit that would help my insurance costs. I said, "oh you can see my credit score in there? " She said," no ,not really, but kina, we use a totally different number system." I can't remember exactly what she said, but it was something that went up to 70. She went on to tell me that the average here in Vegas was low like 35.
Mine said something like that I forget the exact numbers but I do remember that lower was better and when he ran it he called back in minutes and said my score was the best he had seen in some time and it was better than his. When I was at the military bank the CEO said the insurance arm was just starting to use credit scores in their underwriting. This was 2006ish. The idea then was both new and controversial. Critics said it "hurt the poor" but he was really right.
For those that do not work in credit the term for the rating is "character." It is one of the "Five Cs" that they use to make credit decisions. And while people think it is "unfair" to use a credit rating for things unrelated to credit, you might be amazed at how well it does correlate to the rest of someone's life. The person who is haphazard in paying their bills tends to carry that in most things they do. They are less careful drivers. They call off work more. They are one of those people who has a life that is just a mess.
Quote: Gandler
Honestly not having debt can put you at a disadvantage.
Bill payments don't matter (as long as you do not get put in collections)....
One factor is active accounts, if you don't have many credit cards (and lines of credit) that ironically can harm you. If you keep a small balance (even just a few dollars) on several cards every month that would probably increase your score.
Right. It is like a large corporation. With the exception of places like Apple that are loaded with cash, corporations need to borrow all the time. In 2008 an issue was that credit had so tightened that healthy companies that took short-term debt (days to weeks) to meet payroll and other hiccups in the cash flow could not do so.
What happens is say GM has to meet payroll every two weeks. But their cash comes in uneven, as their sales skew to end of month, every month. To meet that off-cycle payroll they will go to the markets and write some commercial paper. Because they have regular clients this is usually easy as they pay well time after time. They are known.
Now imagine a company that does not borrow much. They do not have regular buyers. Traders do not know them, do not know how well they pay. They have a harder time.
Same with a individual person.
What I've yet to meet is a person who got rich by manipulating credit card offerings. On the other hand, I know( through Financial Peace University) literally hundreds who tried to play the " six months same as cash" game who ended up bankrupt or paying 29% default rates.
As a new business owner, I have lots of headaches and things to worry about. Fortunately, Fair Isaac isn't one of them.
Others may have different priorities and different values. Calling someone a fool for refusing to borrow money seems more than a bit bizarre, to me.
In High School, a girl I had a crush on used to work in the Lay Away Department at JC Penny. The place was huge. People would put a deposit down and pay a weekly sum until the item was paid off and then pick up the item. I don't believe they charged interest. I bought my first tv that way. A massive 27 inch black and white one.
Do stores still offer these?
Quote: billryanSomeone claimed not having debt puts you at a disadvantage. Really? Sounds like a fun game to play. I've been involved in my own finances for about forty years and seen a few friends get uber rich and a few who seemed allergic to money.
What I've yet to meet is a person who got rich by manipulating credit card offerings. On the other hand, I know( through Financial Peace University) literally hundreds who tried to play the " six months same as cash" game who ended up bankrupt or paying 29% default rates.
You are confusing "not having credit" with "not having debt." There are lots of reasons a person needs to borrow money. I am finishing a house flip, I needed to borrow a ton to do that. It will easily pay for my next car and then some. Since I do not need a car for 5 years, I will invest in stocks then buy a nicer car, though still not a new one.
Six months same as cash? Lets see. Assuming I cannot get a discount for paying cash I can cash some investment in and take a tax hit, or just ride out the six months. Same for a low interest car loan. If I am getting 5-6% in yield why would I not take out a 3% car loan?
Dave Ramsey gives solid advice, but his advice is the 101 course. When you know what you are doing and do it right debt and credit are tools you use same as a mechanic uses his Snap-On combination wrenches.
Quote: AxelWolfI did Credit Karma recently and was pleasantly surprised how high my credit score actually was, considering I really only started using a credit card over the last five or six years. I have never never bought anything on credit before that, not even a car. I never really paid attention to my debt to credit ratio on that card I didn't even have auto-pay set up. I'm sure I forgot to pay it off more than a few times. Before that, I would pay everything in cash or just use the debit card. Once the local car rentals made it difficult to use your debit card I broke down and got a credit card because I had to(FYI, I don't think I've used a personal check in over 20 years).
I recently got another credit card but it didn't show up on credit karma for about 2 or 3 months. I didn't get any kind of alert from credit karma and I have no idea why it took so long for my CC it to even show up in your system.
What's the best value credit card to get that gives you free stuff or whatever? The last CC gave me like $150 with no annual fees. I'm sure I can do better than that.
Quote: Wallet Hub (a good site for CC questions in general)There are several Chase $500 bonus offers, including 50,000 points for spending $4,000 in the first 3 months with a Chase Sapphire Reserve card. That’s worth $500 in cash back or $750 in travel. Chase Sapphire Preferred offers 60,000 pointswith the same spending requirement as the Reserve card. But its points are worth a total of $600 in cash back or $750 toward travel. Both Sapphire cards require excellent credit.
There are also several Chase business cards with bonus offers worth at least $500. The Ink Business Cash and Ink Business Unlimited cards offer $500 cash back for spending $3,000 in the first 3 months. The Ink Business Preferred card offers 80,000 points for spending $5,000 in the first 3 months. That’s worth $800 in cash or $1,000 in travel. All three business cards require good credit.
Quote: billryanSomeone claimed not having debt puts you at a disadvantage. Really? Sounds like a fun game to play. I've been involved in my own finances for about forty years and seen a few friends get uber rich and a few who seemed allergic to money.
What I've yet to meet is a person who got rich by manipulating credit card offerings. On the other hand, I know( through Financial Peace University) literally hundreds who tried to play the " six months same as cash" game who ended up bankrupt or paying 29% default rates.
As a new business owner, I have lots of headaches and things to worry about. Fortunately, Fair Isaac isn't one of them.
Others may have different priorities and different values. Calling someone a fool for refusing to borrow money seems more than a bit bizarre, to me.
In High School, a girl I had a crush on used to work in the Lay Away Department at JC Penny. The place was huge. People would put a deposit down and pay a weekly sum until the item was paid off and then pick up the item. I don't believe they charged interest. I bought my first tv that way. A massive 27 inch black and white one.
Do stores still offer these?
You took what I said massively out of context...
This post is clearly about FICO scores not having any debt (active accounts, credit history, etc....) does lower your score... In which case not having "debt" can put you at a score disadvantage. Nothing about this statement should be controversial...
I actually agree that living debt free is ideal, but the post was about why somebody would have a lower FICO score. (And active accounts are a FICO factor....)
I never called anyone a fool for not wanting to borrow money (or any other reason), you took one (partial) sentence "Not having debt can actually put you at a disadvantage..." and twisted it to sound like I was encouraging people to rack up debt.....
This is the textbook defintion of selective quotations and skewing context....
But, yes many stores still do lay aways (which are generally not a credit reporting event since you do not take the item until it is 100% paid off, and if you miss a payment they simply restock the item, it is just a deal to slowly pay towards an item you want).
Quote: DRichI consider people who don't borrow at 0% interest and no fees to be fools.
Nuff Said.
Quote: billryan
Others may have different priorities and different values. Calling someone a fool for refusing to borrow money seems more than a bit bizarre, to me.
We definitely have different priorities. I just put $15,000 of tile floors in my house and put it on a 0% card. I expect that I can make at least 3% of that investing the money while paying off the credit card. That $450 is a lot of money for me.
Quote: odiousgambit
You certainly document that they can check with the 3 majors if they want to when you sign on the dotted line. Also, I've never checked with Experian specifically, I'll have to do that if I am due for a free one.
When you apply for casino credit with any casino that partners with Visua Limits LLC (NCC Reports), which includes in Vegas: Caesar's, Cosmopolitan, Wynn, M Resort, Treasure Island, Hard Rock, Palms, Golden Nugget, etc. they do not run your credit "with the 3 majors" - who said that? again, you're running with something in your head, not with what I posted, they run your personal credit with EXPERIAN.
I can't believe that you've made so many posts about how you think they've never run your credit and you haven't even checked Experian, which is the one that they DO run.
Again, you need to check your Experian after applying for a credit line with a casino that partners with Visua Limits LLC (NCC Reports), which in Vegas represents almost all of them. Then, you will see the inquiry there.
As far as riff raff casinos for penny ante players, who knows, but all the major casinos definitely run your personal credit before issuing a credit line. If you've seen your Central Credit or Visua Limits LLC (NCC Reports) report, you will know that it pertains only to casino credit which could be a blank page if this is your first time applying for casino credit, so OBVIOUSLY the casino also needs to verify that you're not a deadbeat with your real world debt before giving you a credit line. I mean, you could be a bankrupt and the casino credit agency wouldn't even know about it, they have to run personal credit to find out about all that.
Visua Limits LLC (NCC Reports) definitely does pull the Experian, I have a number of hard pulls on my Experian credit from when I got new casino credit lines in 2018 and 2019.
