Gambling terminology

1: ROULETTE
On the American roulette layout (containing the single zero) the punter has an option of placing chips on '1st Four' covering the numbers 0,1,2,3. The punter also has an option of placing chips on '1st Dozen' covering the numbers 1-12. How can this be? Surely if the 1st Four covers 0,1,2,3 then the 1st Dozen should cover numbers 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11. The other option is that 1st Four should cover the numbers 1.2.3.4 with the Zero as a separate entity. Did the inventor of the game make an error with his/her terminology?

2: BLACKJACK
On many blackjack tables it clearly states on the layout: 'Dealer must draw to 16 and stand on 17'
If the dealer is drawing 'to' 16 this clearly implies that when the the dealer's cards reach the total of 16 he/she must stand on 16 (and should therefore be paying out winning bets to all players that are still alive in the round with totals of 17 or more... and standing off with people that sat on totals of 16). The wording on the blackjack table at the moment reads that the dealer must stand on 16 AND 17. Surely the terminology on the table should read 'Dealer must draw to 17 and stand on 17' (standing or hitting soft 17 for dealers on different tables is irrelevant to my point). Do I have a case here next time I'm playing demanding that I get paid on my hand of 17,18,19,20 or 21 as soon as the dealer reaches the total of 16? A legal loophole? The rule is clearly stated on the layout. Just wondering!

Quote: WinningWays

1: ROULETTE
On the American roulette layout (containing the single zero) the punter has an option of placing chips on '1st Four' covering the numbers 0,1,2,3. The punter also has an option of placing chips on '1st Dozen' covering the numbers 1-12. How can this be? Surely if the 1st Four covers 0,1,2,3 then the 1st Dozen should cover numbers 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11. The other option is that 1st Four should cover the numbers 1.2.3.4 with the Zero as a separate entity. Did the inventor of the game make an error with his/her terminology?

The "First Four" is another name for Zero Corner. The terminology for the 1st 12 does not apply to this as on the roulette layout 0 falls outside the layout, hence why bets on the dozen lose when zero hits. I think (dont know for sure) that first four comes from this layout position. Of course, this all depends on if you classify zero as a number, or the absence of numbers but that is a bit metaphysical for these purposes.

Quote: WinningWays

2: BLACKJACK
On many blackjack tables it clearly states on the layout: 'Dealer must draw to 16 and stand on 17'
If the dealer is drawing 'to' 16 this clearly implies that when the the dealer's cards reach the total of 16 he/she must stand on 16 (and should therefore be paying out winning bets to all players that are still alive in the round with totals of 17 or more... and standing off with people that sat on totals of 16). The wording on the blackjack table at the moment reads that the dealer must stand on 16 AND 17. Surely the terminology on the table should read 'Dealer must draw to 17 and stand on 17' (standing or hitting soft 17 for dealers on different tables is irrelevant to my point). Do I have a case here next time I'm playing demanding that I get paid on my hand of 17,18,19,20 or 21 as soon as the dealer reaches the total of 16? A legal loophole? The rule is clearly stated on the layout. Just wondering!

You have no case as the writing on a table that states drawing to 16 uses old fashioned terms, but is implicit that the dealer must stand on 17. The drawing to refers to taking another card. I guess it might need updating linguistically but is still valid.

Nice try, but you're not going to get far with those arguments.



1 - Roulette.

American Roulette has 0 and 00. It's European Roulette that has only 0.

The "First" in the First Four, refers to the betting positions, while the "First", "Second" and "Third" Dozens refers to the numbers 1-36. Both are obvious by the position of the betting area.

Placing chips in the same position as First Four on an American Roulette table is a bet for the "First Five" - which, because it doesn't divide easily, has a higher house advantage than any other bet on the Roulette table.

Also, although there is a betting position, there is no printing on the table to indicate "First Four" (or first five), so there is no confusion introduced by the First Dozen.


2 - BJ

It a matter of semantics. Or Linguistics. Or Mathematics.

I suppose if you use math, then you might be right.

Technically, the discplaimer should say: "Dealer must draw with totals of 16 or less, and stand with totals of 17 or more" but that's just too wordy.

Any reasonably experienced BJ player would also understand that the entire purpose of the disclaimer is to indicate if the dealer hits or stands on soft 17.