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P90
P90
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
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January 26th, 2012 at 11:11:07 AM permalink
Quote: minnesotajoe

Poker.. I actually do very well. Problem is.. ... OR after numerous winning sessions.. I end up playing.. getting sucked out on.. and tilt off the rest of my money..

Quote: minnesotajoe

Realistically... if I limited myself to one buy-in per day and I left after reaching 'x' goal, I would turn a profit..


Yeah, that's my problem too.

Just kidding. But it always works that way, you play, you win, then you lose. We naturally tend to attribute our wins to skill and our losses to bad luck or tilt. If you always win X amount and leave, you'll be a winner in every game.

You probably know it already, but even a player considerably above the rest can only turn a few BB per hour. Individual pots will be much more than that, and it seems like your expectation is more like doubling the stack each hour, then you lose and it's bad luck - except it's not, it's the same variance that lets you win much more than your actual advantage warrants.
While you would still turn a profit if you are above the game's level, if you left after winning your expectation, you'd have to leave on the first stolen round of blinds.
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dwheatley
dwheatley
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January 26th, 2012 at 11:22:01 AM permalink
I used to gamble a lot more than I do now. I have a series of suggestions, some of which have been mentioned above:

- Take up a hobby. I personally suggest modern board games, which for some strange reason scratches the same itch that gambling does for me. I find learning how to play games, maybe reading about strategies, actually playing the games, it's all like learning about new gambling games. It has been a great substitute for me. Find friends who play games, or join a board game club. Check out boardgamegeek.com to get started.

- Cancel your TV, replace it with Netflix. This way you CAN'T watch sports at home, and won't want to bet on it. Or, join centsports.com for no-impact betting

- Get further away from the casino (find another job, move, anything that makes it harder to go to the casino).

- When you do go, ALWAYS BET THE MINIMUM! Never press, never chase. Don't even take full odds in craps. Whatever you can do to lower the amount of money at risk. You will soon see something strange happen: gambling starts to matter a little less when there is less money at stake. Maybe you will even start to think it's dull.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
minnesotajoe
minnesotajoe
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January 26th, 2012 at 12:01:54 PM permalink
Thanks for all the feedback.

Like 'boymimbo' I too have never gambled so much where I could not make car payments/rent. So I do have sense of financial priorities. I do not borrow money to gamble. So I am set there. I don't put myself in situation where my liferoll is completely shot from gambling. Yes, I have gambled more than I planned on losing, but never to the point to destroy me financially.

I'm with 'Paigowdan' on not watching sports. I just do not have the interest in watching a game without action. I used to be able to watch teams such as: Southern Methodist, Troy, Central Florida, Louisiana Monroe, etc play entire game and sweat it. Without gambling, I do not watch sports. It doesn't appeal to me without action.... Ironically I strongly feel that sportbook will be the easiest one to stop betting. I genuinely have zero desire to bet sports.

GA... I am not sure why I really have gripe with them. I don't want to be surrounded by losing gamblers. I genuinely want to stop GAMBLING. It's not that I want to stop LOSING. Plus I think I'd feel like Dave Chappelle in 'Half Baked'. For those that have not seen the movie. He goes to a drug rehab center for his marijuana addiction. Then people addicted to meth, heroine, crack, pcp, etc make fun of him. Bob Saget, "Weed isn't an addiction. Have you ever sucked ----- for weed before?" Hilarious. I do not feel that people at the meeting will make fun at me... but rather... I am going to be at a place where people have lost fortunes, cars, families, careers... I got friends that if they lose 20$ at casino they are LIVID. Extremely upset over 20$. Whole time I am thinking, "I lost 1,200$ at baccarat in 7 hands without a winner"
-------
Slots/Video Poker - Only time I play them is when a girl I am dating tells me she wants to go to casino.
Sportbook - Already mentioned... have no desire. I will not bet the games.
Horseracing - Like sportbook, I lost interest. However, like slots, I am willing to go if a girl wants to go there as a night out. In that
case I will only bet 2$ Straight bets, (taken advice from another post) bet many 10cent superfecta bets for fun, and maybe throw in a 1$ extra box (I very rarely boxed exactas when I played).
Roulette - I do not play it
BINGO - I do not play it
Carnival Games in general - Very rare for me to play.
Baccarat - Once I would get stuck, I begin to HAMMER bets and bet beyond what I anticipated. Got to quit it.
Craps - If I got a 10$ Pass Line, I'm taking 50$ odds MINIMUM.. game too expensive. Can't afford it.
Blackjack - I would only play after winning at poker, bacc, or craps. Usually lost winnings.
//
Poker... This will be hardest one to break. Poker in it and of itself... no problem. However, whenever I win at poker, I find myself permitting myself to gamble on table games. Yes, I can go to casino, strictly bet poker exclusively then leave... but I don't want the temptations of other bets. Honestly, lets say that I am +5,000$ player poker over a period of time. Why wouldn't I permit myself to take 1,000$ to crap table and try to make a BIG score. Slippery slope.

Thanks Again All.
Also going to check out that book 'Doubling Down'
EvenBob
EvenBob
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January 26th, 2012 at 12:10:28 PM permalink
Sew all the pockets on your pants shut.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
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January 26th, 2012 at 12:43:50 PM permalink
I strongly believe you need to find something else to occupy your time. I think it is very common for people to just go back to what they know. When you are bored, you will start to think about things to do. You need that list to be bigger than just go to the casino. :)

While I haven't done this for gambling, with other things I've wanted to stop doing, I found it helpful to plan the next time I would do that. That next time became the reason I could tell myself why I shouldn't do it now. I was also very reasonable with my expectations. I didn't go from doing something 3 times a week to once every 2 months. I went from 3 times a week, to once a week, to once every 2 weeks. Unless you have a lot of outside pressure, I find it very hard to just stop something cold. Although in my situations I wasn't actually wanting to stop all the way, I simply wanted to stop doing it as much.


When you gamble, what do you enjoy about it? If the answer is something you can quantify, there may be a way of either altering how you gamble or even get the same results doing something else.


I've never been a big fan of GA or AA mainly because I don't believe cutting off completely is the best answer. I'm sure for some it may be the best or only answer. The self exclusion list to me is a last ditch effort since to me it is basically throwing in the towel on self control. Of course I could be wrong since I don't have first hand experience, it simply sounds like that is pushed fairly early on.



Obviously everything I said is most likely crap and take with many grains of salt.
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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January 26th, 2012 at 12:47:51 PM permalink
Taking the money from a game you win regularly at , and losing it on another game is just plain STUPID. And a sign you have a gambling problem. And a common failure among gamblers. Some of the best hustlers at pool I ever knew would dump all their winnings at gin or the horses. Makes no sense !
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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January 26th, 2012 at 12:48:54 PM permalink
Quote: minnesotajoe

GA... I am not sure why I really have gripe with them. I don't want to be surrounded by losing gamblers.



This sounds a lot like the old quip the drinker makes, "I can't be an alcoholic, I don't have time to go to all those meetings!"
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
boymimbo
boymimbo
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January 26th, 2012 at 12:57:18 PM permalink
Problem gamblers think that they are unique. Your problem isn't atypical at all. That's why GA might be helpful, as they are a community of people with gambling problems. You don't have to stay if the crowd isn't right for you.

Just stay away from the casinos and fill your life with other activities that you find entertainment and replace that rush of endorphins over a win or loss.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
marksolberg
marksolberg
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January 26th, 2012 at 1:01:04 PM permalink
Minnesota Joe,
I'm betting everyone on this forum can relate to what you are saying. I know I've lost more money than I ever meant to. I work in a casino and a lot of casino workers are gamblers. We commiserate with each other and tell our sad stories. Here's a few things that are common to the gamblers I know. First, we don't gamble to win money, we gamble for the rush of winning. Winning is very addictive. Even if you are ahead in a casino that doesn't mean you've won, few people have the discipline to leave ahead. Second, money loses its value in a casino. While you might seriously consider whether you want to plunk down $100 in a store to buy something you want, you won't think twice about losing that in a casino in a matter of minutes.

My best advice is this. Don't decide you're never going to gamble again. If you do, you're probably just lying to yourself. You should decide to not gamble for a certain amount of time, like a month or until your birthday or whatever. When that time comes make another decision to gamble or pick a new date to wait. The longer you go without gambling the less you desire to do it. If you falter and do gamble, just try again.

Mark
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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January 26th, 2012 at 1:20:10 PM permalink
" While you might seriously consider whether you want to plunk down $100 in a store to buy something you want, you won't think twice about losing that in a casino in a matter of minutes. "

That's why chips are used in table games. Easy to call a bet by just sliding that black chip in. Whole different story if you have to put in $100 cash. Sam Farah commented about WSOP final table, that is easy to push millions in chips around when you buy-in was a $40 satellite. In a strictly cash no limit game, Chris Moneymaker would be eaten alive.

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