darktin
darktin
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January 10th, 2024 at 4:25:54 PM permalink
My brother played someone's card on the slot machines. People gave him to play because he did favors for them. Some cards are for his Uber services that they pay him in freeplay. For example, a $25 Uber ride, they gave him $30 in freeplay. Win or lose is on him. So the security guy caught him playing those cards that were not his. They took him to the office. They found 40 cards on him. At first, they accused him of running points on those cards for casino benefits. Like the more he played the more points he gets on those cards for comp and so. I don't know how silly that accusation was if he gonna playing and lose hundred of dollars for a couple of points on the cards, it was never worth it. Then the security guys said he was money laundering, he was a fraud. The security guy called the police on him. After he explained that those cards were given to him, with the players permission to play because they also give him the pin to play. He did not steal anything from anyone. It was a deal between him and the players. It was their business. Not the casino business. But the casino security said, he cannot do that. It is illegal he said. So the security banned him for life at this Indian casino.

Before this I knew some people that also played card that were not their, they only got banned 24 hours. My brothers did the same thing, so he should only be banned 24 hours. This was too cruel that one security guy wrote the report up and banned him for life. Falsely accused him of money laundering, I felt the points on those cards that he played were withing the casino. The casino gave those points to the players. No money from outside was brought in, how can that be money laundering? Is there any case to sue that security guy for slander as in defamation? Sue him for discrimination? Same crime for some people that got banned 24 hours, while my brother got banned permanently. This was too harsh, it was the first offense, a warning will be nice stating that he cannot play other people' cards, but to be banned permanently by one security guy decision?

I saw one guy sat down to play baccarat, while another guy placed 1900 on the table to go to the restroom. When he got back he counted his money was only 1700. So he asked security to check the camera. End up that other guy took the 200 left and played blackjack.Once they found him, they just make him return the 200 and gave him a warning, no banned no nothing. I thought this was theft, should be a harsher punishment.

Anyone can give me advise on this situation? And how he can get himself unbanned from this casino. I tried to talk to the higher up management, but they just seems to go with the flow of that security guy's decision. Thanks for any advice.
ChumpChange
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January 10th, 2024 at 4:34:54 PM permalink
Time to stop treating these Player cards like play things. They've got points that are redeemable for things you would otherwise pay for, kind of like a credit card of sorts (it has a magnetic stripe). Keep it to yourself. Quit bogarting others' cards.
Dieter
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Dieter
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January 10th, 2024 at 7:25:34 PM permalink
What is the goal of the ban reversal?

I would expect to have every action I take on property closely scrutinized if I was allowed to return, certainly to the point of finding any player card I tried to use pinlocked.

You did suggest that friend drove for a carshare service. The casino might allow pickup and dropoff without hassle.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Zcore13
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January 10th, 2024 at 8:55:37 PM permalink
I dont see much of a chance of getting unbanned. Why should the casino unban? Your "friend" broke the rules. Ignorance of the rules doesn't usually work as a defense.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Gandler
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January 10th, 2024 at 9:12:01 PM permalink
Private businesses have a lot of discretion for banning people for various reasons (or no reasons.) Comparing punishments to what others allegedly received is not productive (and you don't truly know, you only know their version of the story.)

And, I just rescanned and saw tribal casino, just tell him to cut his losses. And, threatening to sue is not a great way to get unbanned anywhere. (Really, the only strategy is find somebody sympathetic in management and brown nose, write them how you are a big fan of the establishment and it was all a misunderstanding and you learned your lesson, and this may or may not work -for this case I would guess probably not-.) If management is a closed door, I would just forget it, you will get nowhere.

Free play and player card abuse is something many casinos care about, and getting caught using 40 different cards in one night is hard to recover from (regardless of how he came into possession.) I do not see this being recoverable, and I do not see any reasonable path forward, I would just let it go and find a new favorite casino (and tell him to stop accepting player cards as tips, I never even heard of this in casino heavy areas, it may be a normal thing in his region, but this seems odd to me, that this is so prevalent he can get over 40 per ride session by random tips -I can see 1 or 2 maybe if you do constant casino pickups all night-, so it would also not shock me if there is more to the story that he did not tell you....)
darktin
darktin
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January 11th, 2024 at 3:11:03 AM permalink
The city that we live in has three casinos, this one is the largest casino. We been living here and gamble here for over 20 years, so my brother and I are regular customers. The cards he collected is over a period of time, not just one night. He car-share a group of people, whom doesn't speak English from their place to casino every night. Each night maybe he gives ride around 3-4 people, so he would make 120 and more. The people are also his regular customers, they know him for years. So they trusted and gave him the cards. With the permanent ban, he cannot get onto the property. The casino say it will be trespassing. So he gonna take a huge financial hit to his daily life.

So after this event, he probably will not be able to have possession of other players' cards anymore. The other thing is the security guy called the tribal police on him. Is the security guy trying to get him on trial? If he is going to court, how does the law see this? I only see these are transactions agreed upon by him and his customers, no theft occurred. The casino has no business in this. This is a civil case. So firstly, I am just hoping he is not in trouble with the law.
billryan
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Dieter
January 11th, 2024 at 7:25:33 AM permalink
Keep the cards in your car and only bring in a couple at a time. I think most casino security is lazy and not all that bright. If they start backchecking you, they'll follow the tapes back to when you last entered the casino, not look for multiple entrees.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Talldude90
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January 11th, 2024 at 9:55:06 AM permalink
I can't speak to tribal law, but from my understanding free play has "no cash value", therefore there is no crime. I don't know about comp points, but I would also imagine that with the permission of the cardholder that it wouldn't be an issue there either. The casino has Policies/Terms/Conditions which speak to their internal rules. Internal rules do not laws make. Again I guess there could be some local tribal law. Nothing federal though, so as long as he stays off of tribal land (assuming [which I doubt] that there is a tribal law) then what are they gonna do? Point being breaking terms and conditions can easily get you kicked out / banned for life but it's not a crime or illegal. Kinda the same thing as going to an arcade and convincing others to buy more credits with you so everyone gets a better deal (20 coins for $5 or 100 coins for $20). The arcade doesn't want you to sit there and make a profit off of avoiding the rules of the system, but you've done nothing illegal and the worst they can do is kick you out / trespass you.
ChumpChange
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January 11th, 2024 at 10:56:30 AM permalink
I can bet they are gonna run his license plate and see him dropping people off and picking people up and put an end to that sooner or later. But once he steps in the doors where the security guard checks for IDs of everybody underage, they will likely flag him down as trespassed. If not, then they will will catch him again using someone else's card. So first off, return the cards to the people they belong to without using them and without stepping onto the property, or just mail them to Security/Player's Club Promotions at the casino. They will likely throw the cards away and reissue new cards to the patrons if they want a new card on their next visit. That's what happens to most lost & found cards on the floor.
AZDuffman
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SOOPOO
January 11th, 2024 at 12:37:55 PM permalink
Quote: darktin

They found 40 cards on him.



Do you, like, see the problem here?

We are not talking someone played their spouse's card by mistake. Or a jr playing his dad's card by mistake. We are talking the difference between a small bag of dope and 100 small bags. Find the former in your car and the cop may likely drop it on the ground, squish it with his foot, and tell you to be more careful next time. Find the later and the cop has to do something.

Same with the cards. 40! You are making them do something at that level.

Feeeplay is not supposed to be given away. Yes, it happens but is not supposed to. But at 40 you are talking organized fraud, not an accidental "I didn't know...."
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
rackuun
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March 9th, 2024 at 10:22:55 AM permalink
Quote: darktin

The city that we live in has three casinos, this one is the largest casino. We been living here and gamble here for over 20 years, so my brother and I are regular customers. The cards he collected is over a period of time, not just one night. He car-share a group of people, whom doesn't speak English from their place to casino every night. Each night maybe he gives ride around 3-4 people, so he would make 120 and more. The people are also his regular customers, they know him for years. So they trusted and gave him the cards. With the permanent ban, he cannot get onto the property. The casino say it will be trespassing. So he gonna take a huge financial hit to his daily life.

So after this event, he probably will not be able to have possession of other players' cards anymore. The other thing is the security guy called the tribal police on him. Is the security guy trying to get him on trial? If he is going to court, how does the law see this? I only see these are transactions agreed upon by him and his customers, no theft occurred. The casino has no business in this. This is a civil case. So firstly, I am just hoping he is not in trouble with the law.
link to original post



Tribes can ban people from the land for any reason, just like you can ban anyone from stepping foot on your own property. After 20 years of enriching the tribe, maybe it's time to double your money the Will Rogers way: fold it in half and put it in your back pocket.
DRich
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March 9th, 2024 at 1:02:55 PM permalink
Quote: darktin



Anyone can give me advise on this situation? And how he can get himself unbanned from this casino. I tried to talk to the higher up management, but they just seems to go with the flow of that security guy's decision. Thanks for any advice.



It would be very easy if he is willing to change his name.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Nathan
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March 9th, 2024 at 2:19:00 PM permalink
I remember a guy saying he lost $5,000 in a single Casino Session in a Cesar's Palace Casino or something similar in Las Vegas and put himself on the self exclusion program, for ONLY Las Vegas Cesar's Palace. He said something like,"In about a month, I had exactly $ 5,000 again and I went to Cesar's Palace in California and wanted to gamble there, but Cesar's Palace told me that the Las Vegas Cesar's Palace staff excluded me from EVERY Cesar's Palace Casinos in the COUNTRY. This wasn't what I asked Las Vegas Cesar's Palace Staff to do. I asked them to self exclude me from ONLY Las Vegas Cesar's Palace, not the entire COUNTRY. They did that without my knowledge or permission.. I had no idea a Casino Staff could exclude me from EVERY Casino with that same name in the entire COUNTRY, when I specifically wanted it to ONLY be Las Vegas Cesar's Palace. . I thought it was only going to be Las Vegas Cesar's Palace Casinos, not the entire COUNTRY. I regret self excluding, especially since I got the $5,000 back and I wonder if I could reverse my self exclusion. I, Nathan wonder if he has a valid case for reversing the self exclusion since he just wanted to be self excluded from just ONE State's Cesar's Palace, and not the ENTIRE Country, especially since they excluded him from EVERY Cesar's Palace without his permission or knowledge. 💡🤔
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
AitchTheLetter
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March 9th, 2024 at 7:44:30 PM permalink
Quote: Nathan

I remember a guy saying he lost $5,000 in a single Casino Session in a Cesar's Palace Casino or something similar in Las Vegas and put himself on the self exclusion program, for ONLY Las Vegas Cesar's Palace. He said something like,"In about a month, I had exactly $ 5,000 again and I went to Cesar's Palace in California and wanted to gamble there, but Cesar's Palace told me that the Las Vegas Cesar's Palace staff excluded me from EVERY Cesar's Palace Casinos in the COUNTRY. This wasn't what I asked Las Vegas Cesar's Palace Staff to do. I asked them to self exclude me from ONLY Las Vegas Cesar's Palace, not the entire COUNTRY. They did that without my knowledge or permission.. I had no idea a Casino Staff could exclude me from EVERY Casino with that same name in the entire COUNTRY, when I specifically wanted it to ONLY be Las Vegas Cesar's Palace. . I thought it was only going to be Las Vegas Cesar's Palace Casinos, not the entire COUNTRY. I regret self excluding, especially since I got the $5,000 back and I wonder if I could reverse my self exclusion. I, Nathan wonder if he has a valid case for reversing the self exclusion since he just wanted to be self excluded from just ONE State's Cesar's Palace, and not the ENTIRE Country, especially since they excluded him from EVERY Cesar's Palace without his permission or knowledge. 💡🤔
link to original post



I cannot speak to other companies but the casino I work at, operated by Penn Entertainment, has the policy of honoring self-exclusions made in a state that has a Penn owned/operated casino as part of our commitment to responsible gaming. Sounds like Cesar's Entertainment has the same or a similar policy though.

If they feel they can be responsible gaming then they should go through the steps to take themselves off the self-exclusion list in Vegas.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
Nathan
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March 10th, 2024 at 4:15:59 AM permalink
Quote: AitchTheLetter

Quote: Nathan

I remember a guy saying he lost $5,000 in a single Casino Session in a Cesar's Palace Casino or something similar in Las Vegas and put himself on the self exclusion program, for ONLY Las Vegas Cesar's Palace. He said something like,"In about a month, I had exactly $ 5,000 again and I went to Cesar's Palace in California and wanted to gamble there, but Cesar's Palace told me that the Las Vegas Cesar's Palace staff excluded me from EVERY Cesar's Palace Casinos in the COUNTRY. This wasn't what I asked Las Vegas Cesar's Palace Staff to do. I asked them to self exclude me from ONLY Las Vegas Cesar's Palace, not the entire COUNTRY. They did that without my knowledge or permission.. I had no idea a Casino Staff could exclude me from EVERY Casino with that same name in the entire COUNTRY, when I specifically wanted it to ONLY be Las Vegas Cesar's Palace. . I thought it was only going to be Las Vegas Cesar's Palace Casinos, not the entire COUNTRY. I regret self excluding, especially since I got the $5,000 back and I wonder if I could reverse my self exclusion. I, Nathan wonder if he has a valid case for reversing the self exclusion since he just wanted to be self excluded from just ONE State's Cesar's Palace, and not the ENTIRE Country, especially since they excluded him from EVERY Cesar's Palace without his permission or knowledge. 💡🤔
link to original post



I cannot speak to other companies but the casino I work at, operated by Penn Entertainment, has the policy of honoring self-exclusions made in a state that has a Penn owned/operated casino as part of our commitment to responsible gaming. Sounds like Cesar's Entertainment has the same or a similar policy though.

If they feel they can be responsible gaming then they should go through the steps to take themselves off the self-exclusion list in Vegas.
link to original post



I wonder if the paperwork he signed stated that the self exclusion was for EVERY Cesar's Palace in the ENTIRE Country, but he didn't know it when he signed it. I could see the guy not seeing that VERY important detail. I wonder if he could have it reversed once again since it seems he had no idea it would be the ENTIRE Country.

Edit. I just looked up Cesar's Palace Casino self exclusion policy and the self exclusion policy is indeed for ALL Cesar's Palace Casinos in the ENTIRE Country.
Last edited by: Nathan on Mar 10, 2024
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
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