USA Tipping and guilt tripping
Quote: petroglyphI was just having fun Ace, I will leave you be. Good luck at the tables.
Petroglyph - it was funny :-)
I'm not at the tables yet - Tuesday approaches
Here is Asia there is really a "no tipping" policy. So quite a culture shock for us.
I once took a taxi in Tokyo and gave the driver the equivalent of $20 for the fare of about $19.75. I thought nothing of it but before I could get out the driver call me and said here is your change.
If you land in Singapore Changi airport the tourism brochure would say tipping is illegal in the airport.
I once took a cab in Vegas from the strip to downtown. He was nice and chatty and as we approach downtown he ask me where I want to stop. I told him right here will do as I just want to walk around. So he drop me right at the junction. The fare was $15 and I gave him a $20 bill. As I was in a hurry to get out of that junction I did not realise that he handed me 5 $1 bills. He shot off without a saying anything or a thank you. It then dawn on me that he is upset he did not get his tip. Nobody tip the cabs here in Asia. Still in normal circumstances this being the US I would have tip him. But how much is enough. I have gave some fairly large tips before and still did not get a thank you in return.
Quote: Deck007But how much is enough. I have gave some fairly large tips before and still did not get a thank you in return.
And thus is the problem with tipping. In most cases it is no longer appreciated, as much as expected.
If 20%+ of people would NOT tip, then I not tip.
If I have spare brain power, then I run through 4 scenarios, to tip none, small, medium, large. And pick the scenario that is most advantage to me. For small tips, I don't spend the brain power.
Quote: kewljAnd thus is the problem with tipping. In most cases it is no longer appreciated, as much as expected.
I believe EvenBob has stated this over and over---Bob, care to remind us how the people "tippees" actually despise the "tippers"?
1) Big slot/ VP jack pot- The person paying you out probably makes less than $10 an hour. If you won $50,000 and gave $5,000 or even $500 that would really help out the person making that wage.
2) Table games- I believe it is best to tip small amounts or place bets for the dealer more often than just handing a bet. I even suggest betting the dealers tip on top of yours so the dealer does not have to take the bet+ winnings. I used to do this when I would play Dan's EZ Pai Gow Poker. A couple of bucks on top of my bet would always pay even money and it would add up eventually.
I have always felt that the dealers make more money than I do, but oh well that is gambling, paying for entertainment.
Quote: NicksGamingStuffHere are my thoughts again on this, especially after being out of the casino business for about 2 years now.
1) Big slot/ VP jack pot- The person paying you out probably makes less than $10 an hour. If you won $50,000 and gave $5,000 or even $500 that would really help out the person making that wage.
The person on the machine to the left of you is LOSING $X/hour. It would mean a lot more to give the $500 to the other player because they could use it a lot more (according to your logic). What does the person making $10/hour do to deserve the tip? Their job they're already being paid for? And yet you want to give them $500???
Quote: NicksGamingStuff2) Table games- I believe it is best to tip small amounts or place bets for the dealer more often than just handing a bet. I even suggest betting the dealers tip on top of yours so the dealer does not have to take the bet+ winnings. I used to do this when I would play Dan's EZ Pai Gow Poker. A couple of bucks on top of my bet would always pay even money and it would add up eventually.
I have always felt that the dealers make more money than I do, but oh well that is gambling, paying for entertainment.
Not all of us are paying for entertainment =p. Also, you're payment for the entertainment is the house edge mathematically built in to every single game. That's why even when they comp you, it's with your own loss or theoretically loss money.
All that being said, I generally tip blackjack dealers if they are better than average. To be better than average you must not give incorrect strategies, talk about the flow of the cards and how me sitting 1 hand out will make everyone lose, how the dealer has an 81% advantage on the first hand of the shoe, etc. If you don't even know your job then I'm certainly not going to tip you for it.
Quote: RomesThe person on the machine to the left of you is LOSING $X/hour. It would mean a lot more to give the $500 to the other player because they could use it a lot more (according to your logic). What does the person making $10/hour do to deserve the tip? Their job they're already being paid for? And yet you want to give them $500???
Not all of us are paying for entertainment =p. Also, you're payment for the entertainment is the house edge mathematically built in to every single game. That's why even when they comp you, it's with your own loss or theoretically loss money.
All that being said, I generally tip blackjack dealers if they are better than average. To be better than average you must not give incorrect strategies, talk about the flow of the cards and how me sitting 1 hand out will make everyone lose, how the dealer has an 81% advantage on the first hand of the shoe, etc. If you don't even know your job then I'm certainly not going to tip you for it
What do you mean the person next to them could use the money better? Because they're gambling and expecting to lose?
So why ever tip? You're already paying for food at a restaurant...and the wait staff is already being paid! Just give some money to the people eating next to you, right?
Not sure what all the bitchings about. In other countries, people do tip, except it's done differently -- you're automatically charged a service fee or some sh*t. Not in Murca, it's just done differently.
Quote: supergrassIf 80%+ of people would tip in a given situation, then I tip also at the normal amount.
If 20%+ of people would NOT tip, then I not tip.
Do you take a polls of each situation?
Seems like this thread has taken a turn in the last few posts, towards tipping in a casino at casino games, as opposed to tipping in general. Just to be clear my previous comment about tips being expected rather than appreciated was in reference to tips in general, not specific to the casino environment.
I will not be intimidated into tipping, that pressure technic works in reverse with me.
I also [sorry for repeating] tip janitors who clean the restrooms when I run into them working, they have always seemed to genuinely appreciate it. Also, if the room cleaners do well, [leave the room clean, fresh linens, and not steal anything] we often leave them a tip also. Sometimes just half a sandwich, but we try to leave something.
I do not tip because "I am expected to".
Quote: NicksGamingStuff1) Big slot/ VP jack pot- The person paying you out probably makes less than $10 an hour. If you won $50,000 and gave $5,000 or even $500 that would really help out the person making that wage.
Maybe the casino could give them that $500 bonus when I win. After all, that's who the real winner was, not me or the employee.
Maybe that's why lotteries pay stores who sell winning tickets, so they don't expect me to tip. I can see a giant jug on the counter right now. Lottery winner tip jar.
Quote: NicksGamingStuff
1) Big slot/ VP jack pot- The person paying you out probably makes less than $10 an hour. If you won $50,000 and gave $5,000 or even $500 that would really help out the person making that wage.
What is wrong with you? Tip $5000 on a $50,000 win. That's insane. Did you put some expired milk on your cereal this morning?
The standard is 1%. On a $4000 Video poker Royal Flush, that's $40 buck. But 1% is about my total advantage for machine play, so I am giving away everything I, or my partner has worked hard for. And it is hard work, calculating just the right amount of machine play to generate certain amounts in mailer offers, which is where most of our machine play advantage comes from.
So, this year, we (meaning my partner, who handles all our machine play) dropped back to the 25 cent level to avoid any handpays and giving up the 1%. It also means we save time by avoiding the w-2's. Yeah...go ahead.....you can call me cheap. My job is to take from the rich (casino) and give to the poor (me). Oh, BTW, it means my partner has to work his little fingers to the bone, getting in all our play at the 25-cent level. I don't see him for hours on end. :)
I don't think a bribe is the right word to use. However, if I was dealing to a known tipper, I'd sure as hell pay more attention. Back when I was dealing, there was a very nice lady who tipped fairly generously and always say first base. She would never hit a H16 in any circumstance and verbally told dealers so. One day, she had a momentarily lapse in concentration and signaled for a hit on H16. I asked her, <name redacted>, you're hitting a 16? She immediately realized her mistake and waved it off, tipping me a little extra on the next hand for the courtesy. If you were a known stiff, I would have immediately plunked a card down on your hand after seeing the hit signal, regardless of your normal playing pattern. This was at a keep-your-own joint, where guest service usually far exceeds the lumps at a pool joint.Quote: aceofspadesI think tips at table games are akin to bribes - meaning...should an error or mistake occur, the dealer is more likely to lobby on your behalf if you have tipped them
There are many card counters that use tips to try to get the dealer to cut deeper into the deck. Dealers have procedures of where they are supposed to put the cut card. If you are giving them money in exchange for breaking those procedures, what else would you call it? While we are talking breaking house procedures as opposed to breaking the law, there still can be consequences, maybe not to you the player, but to the dealer. Maybe he/she gets fired.
In addition, when tipping is involved like that, the dealer now 'wants' you to win. he/she is likely to tip more when you are winning. So a few mistakes start going your way. Maybe on purpose, but maybe unintentional, maybe subconsciously. What is that going to look like to anyone objectively watching. It will look like collusion. Will be hard to prove, but that's what it will look like. Even a completely honest mistake in your favor will look like collusion, when financial gain is added to the mix.
In my opinion, tipping at the table should really not even be allowed, just to give the appearance of protecting the integrity of the game, which should be top priority to the casino, but isn't.
Quote: kewljBut 1% is about my total advantage for machine play, so I am giving away everything I, or my partner has worked hard for.
I agree with your general gambling related tipping philosophy. But this argument is just wrong. If you tip 1% on every royal jackpot, then assuming royals contribute about 2%, you are giving up about .02% edge on your overall play.
Quote: sabreI agree with your general gambling related tipping philosophy. But this argument is just wrong. If you tip 1% on every royal jackpot, then assuming royals contribute about 2%, you are giving up about .02% edge on your overall play.
Yeah, I thought about that after I posted it. Left it up anyway. :)
It's still the general point. My partner and I are in it for the money. We (mostly he), works hard for the very slim margin that we get after fighting through the variance. Why should we have to pay a "fee" in the form of a tip, when hitting that handpay... a hand pay and accompanying w-2 that we really would prefer not to get. It isn't like that hand pay is all profit or anything. It just is part of that 'tiniest' sliver of advantage that we work hard for.
Quote: kewljYeah, I thought about that after I posted it. Left it up anyway. :)
It's still the general point. My partner and I are in it for the money. We (mostly he), works hard for the very slim margin that we get after fighting through the variance. Why should we have to pay a "fee" in the form of a tip, when hitting that handpay... a hand pay and accompanying w-2 that we really would prefer not to get. It isn't like that hand pay is all profit or anything. It just is part of that 'tiniest' sliver of advantage that we work hard for.
IMO, you already tip plenty @ the food bank, when dealers and slot techs are feeding the poor then it could be re-considered? How's the leak?
Quote: petroglyphIMO, you already tip plenty @ the food bank, when dealers and slot techs are feeding the poor then it could be re-considered? How's the leak?
I have a company coming out Friday to take a look. I am sure THAT will go well. :/
I don't work (volunteer) at the food bank. I 'work' in the laundry of a homeless shelter, washing sheets and towel.
Quote: petroglyph@kewlj, that's what I meant, I didn't know the correct terms
You are very kind, petroglyph, but don't be so impressed with my volunteer activities. People that do that kind of thing, myself included, do so almost as much for themselves as for those they are attempting to help.
In my own case, I wash sheets and towels. So the homeless kids (and that is up to age 21 at the homeless shelter) have clean sheets to sleep on. How does that change their lives. Having a bed to sleep in and a room off the streets makes a difference, but do you think they really care about having clean sheets? No, it's just something that makes me feel good about myself, like I have done something good when I really haven't.
I have now begun tipping the regular dealer, and the break/relief dealer, and the new dealer, etc, so the by the hour thing is out the window. I tip, I want them to know I tip. I may very well be out of my mind ;-) 2F
Quote: kewljYou are very kind, petroglyph, but don't be so impressed with my volunteer activities. People that do that kind of thing, myself included, do so almost as much for themselves as for those they are attempting to help.
In my own case, I wash sheets and towels. So the homeless kids (and that is up to age 21 at the homeless shelter) have clean sheets to sleep on. How does that change their lives. Having a bed to sleep in and a room off the streets makes a difference, but do you think they really care about having clean sheets? No, it's just something that makes me feel good about myself, like I have done something good when I really haven't.
Don't short yourself,
Down in our psyche my belief is that the reason people give [any of us] is because it makes us feel good. That is why people ring the bell at the Salvation Army, Dr's without borders or any other group. I think I tip because I feel better doing it. My little tips don't change anyone's life but my own in how I feel about how I treat others. You have seen me post, that I tip janitors and not gnarly dealers. It's just how I feed my Kharma.
Maybe one in a dozen feel the bed is clean, we all need that feeling somewhere of safety and sanctuary. None of my business, but I admire your generosity.
Your gift to those people is precious. I have lived out of cars before.
My little tips doesn't change their lives, it changes mine.
Quote: petroglyphDon't short yourself,
Maybe one in a dozen feel the bed is clean, we all need that feeling somewhere of safety and sanctuary. None of my business, but I admire your generosity.
Your gift to those people is precious.
KJ, I agree with Petro 100% here, don't think what you do doesn't make a difference.
Quote: tringlomane
I bet Paigowdan wished he averaged $50/hr when dealing.
Are you kidding? I wish I'd win $50/hr when playing!
We got out to retrieve my bags from the back.
I handed the guy $25.00. As he reached in his pocket fishing for change I said, "No just keep the change." He took out a coin from his side pocket and rudely snapped it in my top pocket as he rudely said,"No you keep it you need it more than I do". I said, "excuse me, but I thought the meter said $20.58, exactly how much was it? He said it was $24.75 and then said something loud and angry in a different language.
I explained I though I was tipping him over $4, and had he found a nicer way to indicate he was being stiffed. I probably would've felt embarrassed and even tipped more, probably $9. But since he was such a jerk about it I sarcastically said, "have a wonderful night, I know I will"
I can't believe people feel entitled to my money, get a different job if you can't handle the stress of not getting good tips from everyone.
Quote: AxelWolf
Amazing how a system can make BOTH parties pissed off and angry.
Great system we have, huh?
Quote: AxelWolfThe other day I took a cab home. I glanced at the meter just before we stopped, I swore it said $20.58
We got out to retrieve my bags from the back.
I handed the guy $25.00. As he reached in his pocket fishing for change I said, "No just keep the change." He took out a coin from his side pocket and rudely snapped it in my top pocket as he rudely said,"No you keep it you need it more than I do". I said, "excuse me, but I thought the meter said $20.58, exactly how much was it? He said it was $24.75 and then said something loud and angry in a different language.
I explained I though I was tipping him over $4, and had he found a nicer way to indicate he was being stiffed. I probably would've felt embarrassed and even tipped more, probably $9. But since he was such a jerk about it I sarcastically said, "have a wonderful night, I know I will"
I can't believe people feel entitled to my money, get a different job if you can't handle the stress of not getting good tips from everyone.
Similar thing happened to me. I don't remember the amount exactly, think it said something like $14.75 or whatever right before the cab parked. I gave him a $20 and asked for $2 back and keep the change. Well apparently between it parking and me paying, it shot up to $17.xx. Didn't realize that until I was getting out or he went to reset the clock or whatever it was. He said something sorta half-rude, don't remember exactly.
Month or so later I took a cab home from the airport and almost the same thing happened. I feel like the cab drivers should say something like, "Your bill is $XXX dollars" especially if that happens frequently, where the meter jumps up a couple bucks at the end.
Playing craps with my brother the other day, some guy gets on a hot roll and we start winning. I'd been tipping throughout the roll, they probably made $50-60 from me (prob tipped $25 in action that won). I colored up, boss counts the chips and tells the dealer $520. I look at the chips the dealer cut out, it looked like $420. I ask the boss "is it five-twenty or four-twenty?" he says, "It's five". I said "it's five-twenty right?" He says, "It's five" while nodding his head towards the dealer, implying I should tip the $20 to the dealers.
1) which all people notices is the fare meter which increases as you drive or unfortunately, are stuck in traffic, but there is also
2) The additional fees line which many times is the fare line. In some towns, there is a fee for a pickup or dropoff at the airport, fees for tolls paid on the trip, fees for additional passengers (although I don't think that one applies to Vegas)
But you have to add those two up to get the full fare. I was recently in downtown Chicago taking one from my hotel to the restaurant me and my GF were gonna dine at. The fare went up $1 at the drop-off due to us having 2 passengers. On the way back I noticed the 2nd line, where it said Add'l $1.00.
Pay, and tip if you like, and then walk away.
If the driver assaults you a whole different set of legal precedents come into play.
A tip is a tip.
No tip is no tip.
Wear a different wig and add a mustache next time ;-)
Did someone say BONUS!!!? That's one of my favorite words along with DOUBLE.Quote: ahiromuAxel, perhaps you missed a "bonus"? A fee they tack on for picking someone up at the airport or other prime location.
Oh a -EV bonus for me.
Yeah I'm sure that's probably what happened. I'm usually very attentive to watching just as they hit the stop meter button, however I was texting at the time. I'm usually very attentive because I have had drivers try to pull fast ones on me in the past(I'm sorry to say... but IMO there's a disproportional amount of shady cabdrivers here in Vegas). I have nothing against cabdrivers.... my best friend is a cabbie ☺.
If you work in the service industry and depend on tips, being rude because of bad tips just gives people the motivation and justification to stiff. From now on unless I especially like the cabdriver for some reason(or shes hot, which is VERY unlikely), until I feel some cabdriver has made up for all the crappie cabbies, I'm only tipping $1 or $2 max.
That reminds me...
There used to be this really slimy AP hustler/ scuffler his name is lizard in which he embraces, so that should tell you something.
I hop in a cab downtown one night and notice the guy looks like this Lizard guy, but It seems unlikely. It's been a few years since I seen him slithering around any casinos. He notices its me and asks me what I have been up to and if I had any good plays. I just say, nothing much, just the same old, same old.
He begins telling me about all the big money he's making as a cab driver working with hookers and drug dealers by bringing them clients IIRC he was talking 7k + a month. No judgement on my part, but needless to say, I didn't have him drop me off at my home, but at the nearest casino.
Hmm..Quote: TwoFeathersATLYou makin' this too hard. Get out of cab (or Über), ask the price AT that time. Add tip, if you are a tipper.
Pay, and tip if you like, and then walk away.
If the driver assaults you a whole different set of legal precedents come into play.
A tip is a tip.
No tip is no tip.
Wear a different wig and add a mustache next time ;-)
If I become an Uber driver and I need an Uber ride and just drive myself will they pay me?
I'm sure someone has found a way to scam Uber.
How are credit card payments taken care of?
Quote: AxelWolfHmm..
If I become an Uber driver and I need an Uber ride and just drive myself will they pay me?
I'm sure someone has found a way to scam Uber.
How are credit card payments taken care of?
Yeah you can join under me, and you go out and recuit drivers so you get a cut of their profits. Its not a pyramid its a reverse funnel.
Quote: AxelWolfHmm..
If I become an Uber driver and I need an Uber ride and just drive myself will they pay me?
I'm sure someone has found a way to scam Uber.
How are credit card payments taken care of?
No. You'd basically be paying yourself and uber. If the ride costs $25, then you (passenger) gets billed for $25. Some % cut goes to the Uber company, and the rest goes into your (driver) account.
Next time you need a ride home, just uber-drive yourself home. It's like infinite money.
It wasn't a serious question. Everyone knows that if you were an Uber driver and give yourself an Uber ride you would disappear,explode or go back in time or something.Quote: RSNo. You'd basically be paying yourself and uber. If the ride costs $25, then you (passenger) gets billed for $25. Some % cut goes to the Uber company, and the rest goes into your (driver) account.
Next time you need a ride home, just uber-drive yourself home. It's like infinite money.
Quote: AxelWolfThe other day I took a cab home. I glanced at the meter just before we stopped, I swore it said $20.58
We got out to retrieve my bags from the back.
I handed the guy $25.00. As he reached in his pocket fishing for change I said, "No just keep the change." He took out a coin from his side pocket and rudely snapped it in my top pocket as he rudely said,"No you keep it you need it more than I do". I said, "excuse me, but I thought the meter said $20.58, exactly how much was it? He said it was $24.75 and then said something loud and angry in a different language.
I explained I though I was tipping him over $4, and had he found a nicer way to indicate he was being stiffed. I probably would've felt embarrassed and even tipped more, probably $9. But since he was such a jerk about it I sarcastically said, "have a wonderful night, I know I will"
I can't believe people feel entitled to my money, get a different job if you can't handle the stress of not getting good tips from everyone.
All I could think of after reading this was "Mr 20 cents" aka Patrick Kane and his taxi fare gone wild LOL
