Twirdman
Twirdman
Joined: Jun 5, 2013
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 1004
March 22nd, 2014 at 5:53:07 AM permalink
Quote: pew

It's not about what I believe, it's about what God says. Maybe you can't grasp the concept due to a closed mind.



Again how do you know what God says other than the bible. The bible has many cases of atrocities being committed. God often times called for the wholesale slaughter of an entire people. I mean these people say they are doing exactly what god commanded why is your interpretation any more valid than theirs? For instance take the passage "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" Now this could be interpreted figuratively which is arguably how it should be and it refers to ideological upheaval and familial divisions caused by religious difference in family others have taken a literal interpretation of it as a call to arms in a fight against what the church says is evil. So if you take it figuratively what evidence do you have that that is how God intended it to be taken. Also it needs to be more than personal revelations since many of these people who have advocated violence also had personal revelations of God commanding them to for instance bomb an abortion clinic or do any manner of atrocities.

Again it is one thing to argue that the good religion, any religion, does outweighs the bad it is quite another to say that any religion has caused no ill. In every religion you look you have people committing horrible acts and you may say they are perverting a message of peace and love but what makes your interpretation of the bible any more valid than theirs.
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
  • Threads: 51
  • Posts: 3259
March 22nd, 2014 at 6:17:25 AM permalink
Quote: pew

It's not about what I believe, it's about what God says. Maybe you can't grasp the concept due to a closed mind.

You get to pick and choose your Gods so yes, it's about what YOU believe.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
Sabretom2
Sabretom2
Joined: Mar 3, 2013
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 718
March 22nd, 2014 at 7:46:33 AM permalink
It really doesn't matter how much y'all mock what others believe, it won't fill that hole in your own lives.
Twirdman
Twirdman
Joined: Jun 5, 2013
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 1004
March 22nd, 2014 at 7:48:55 AM permalink
Quote: Sabretom2

It really doesn't matter how much y'all mock what others believe, it won't fill that whole in your own lives.



Take it you meant hole and I'm pretty fulfilled actually. I mean an invisible friend is nice when you are a child but not so needed when you are an adult.
Sabretom2
Sabretom2
Joined: Mar 3, 2013
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 718
March 22nd, 2014 at 7:55:09 AM permalink
Fixed it, thanks.
Sabretom2
Sabretom2
Joined: Mar 3, 2013
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 718
March 22nd, 2014 at 7:56:49 AM permalink
Quote: Twirdman

Take it you meant hole and I'm pretty fulfilled actually. I mean an invisible friend is nice when you are a child but not so needed when you are an adult.



So why mock?
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 790
March 22nd, 2014 at 8:16:13 AM permalink
Quote: Twirdman

So if you take it figuratively what evidence do you have that that is how God intended it to be taken. Also it needs to be more than personal revelations since many of these people who have advocated violence also had personal revelations of God commanding them to for instance bomb an abortion clinic or do any manner of atrocities.

Again it is one thing to argue that the good religion, any religion, does outweighs the bad it is quite another to say that any religion has caused no ill. In every religion you look you have people committing horrible acts and you may say they are perverting a message of peace and love but what makes your interpretation of the bible any more valid than theirs.



I think at the top of page six on this thread I tried to answer a similar question. Twirdman is giving the perfect reason for why we need a Magisterium or an authoritative voice to help us to understand the Bible.

True story: I was invited to attend a large meeting between Jews and Muslims. The event was to have a few keynote speakers and then small group discussions between members of both religions. I was a small group leader to try and keep the discussion helpful and moving forward. Anyway, the Muslim keynote speaker said much to my surprise that more than anything else Islam needs a Pope! What he was getting at is there is no one to authoritatively say this is what the Koran means or to say that if you believe it means this or that you are not Muslim and are using your own personal interpretation.
Twirdman
Twirdman
Joined: Jun 5, 2013
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 1004
March 22nd, 2014 at 8:20:52 AM permalink
Quote: Sabretom2

So why mock?



Because religion causes a lot of harm in the world and I'm not sure the goods outweigh the bads. Especially given a significant portion of the populations outright rejection of science which holds us back from further progressing.

Quote: frgamble

I think at the top of page six on this thread I tried to answer a similar question. Twirdman is giving the perfect reason for why we need a Magisterium or an authoritative voice to help us to understand the Bible.



Well then you are still left with the problem religious authorities have condoned acts of extraordinary violence and they were listening to what the authority said the bible said so clearly Christian and yet they committed heinous acts. You cannot simply say that Christians, Muslims, or a host of other religions do not have violent past or presents just because you don't agree with what they are doing.
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 790
March 22nd, 2014 at 9:05:19 AM permalink
Quote: teliot


You seem to be hinting at the "ghost in the machine" argument for god. G in the thing we don't know yet. And since we can't know everything, g must be somewhere.



Actually I was trying to determine if you are a fanatical science "nut". You know there are fanatical religious nuts - people who think the Bible is to be taken literally word for word, that the earth was created 6,000 years ago, dragons existed with men, that no unbelievers will get to heaven, etc. Well there are also fanatical science nuts who make science into a religion; they think that all our problems can be solved through technology, that nothing that can't be seen or observed exists, that all knowledge must come from the scientific method, that science can answer all and every question including philosophical and theological ones, etc. So I'll ask again do you think science has any limits?

Quote:


Religion isn't silly, it's the stuff that religious people believe that's silly. Religion is harmful and dangerous. I'm opposed to dangerous things. Cancer is a biological outgrowth, like red hair. Some parts of biology are good, others not so good.



First of all let me make it clear that I believe your biological explanation of religion is ridiculous. However, suspending my disbelief for a moment and assuming your theory why can you call religion "not so good". (Let's also ignore the fact that in a purposeless universe without God the very idea of good or bad can't be consistently applied) Yes, cancer is harmful and dangerous but if it is just the result of biological forces than can we say it is evil or bad? Its unfortunate and ugly, but it's not something that can be controlled, changed, or chosen. You already said you would not hate someone who had red hair, nor would you hate someone who was born with a homosexual inclination, so why do you dislike religious people so much? You just don't like the stuff of religion, but if that is an outgrowth of biological architecture of our brain how can you put a negative judgment on it? What if God forbid you were born or developed religious ideas because of some chemical imbalance?
teliot
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 42
  • Posts: 2371
March 22nd, 2014 at 9:23:13 AM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

So I'll ask again do you think science has any limits?

I answered that. Look up the incompleteness theorem I referenced. As for "science nuts," I would rather try and figure out answers than invent answers. When a question arises, like the origin of the universe, I am overjoyed that there are dedicated professionals with intellectual curiosity who spend years searching for the answer. Then, when they actually do answer the question they have been working on, the joy is overwhelming. New truths have not been invented or made up, they have been discovered. Such was the case this week with the proof of gravitational waves. Apparently, you are satisfied just making stuff up, or believing previously made up stuff. I find that sad.

I am happy to be able to use a computer, whose parts rely on a deep understanding of quantum mechanics, or a cell phone, whose antenna uses the geometry of fractals. The various massive structures of belief that are called religions are each based on a collection of anecdotes. None has yet to produce a single useful tool to benefit mankind.
End of the world website: www.climatecasino.net

  • Jump to: