NY Gambling News

As I stated in a seperate thread, NYS is currently considering allowing Class III gaming (other than tribal). Since I get somewhat of an inside scoop on such matters, I thought I'd forward anything I hear on down the line. This isn't Class III (info to come as it happens) but I thought it may be of interst to some.

Aqueduct's Racino abuzz with the sound of money as slots come to town
BY IRVING DEJOHN
DAILY NEWS WRITER
Wednesday, September 21st 2011, 4:00 AM

Michael Speller CEO/President World Resorts Casino, gave a tour of the still under construction Aqueduct Racino.
The company behind Aqueduct's racino took the wraps off its glitzy Vegas-like gaming hall with all the bells and whistles - but without the blackjack tables and show girls.
Reporters got a sneak peek of the Aqueduct facility from Resorts World New York yesterday, which is slated to open its doors to the public in late October.
The electronic gaming machines were illuminated and awaiting programing, creating a dizzying light show in anticipation of a swarm of gamblers. The ongoing construction left some of the screens with a fine layer of dust.
The initial opening, which is limited to only the first floor, will include 2,280 video lottery terminals and 219 electronic table game seats stretched over the 190,000-square-foot area. The second and third floors, which will open by the end of the year, remain mostly a skeleton filled with construction workers.
The swirling, multicolored rugs filled the expanse, adding a dizziness to the frenzy of the gaming floor, dubbed the Times Square Casino. The bright lights and sensory experience rival 42nd St.
Resorts World President Michael Speller said the advanced gaming technology won't be the only way to relax at the new Big A.
"It will match anything you can get in New York City," he said.
In the center of the Times Square Casino will be Bar 360, which will include a massive, 28-foot-wide-by-18-foot-high high-definition screen for watching sporting events, and just might be the "biggest in Queens," Speller said.
Vibrant decor is nothing without food to enjoy it with, so the racino will boast several food courts and a full Chinese bistro named Genting Palace, after its Malaysian-based parent company.
"We will serve food from all over the world," he said.
Speller also noted that the nearby subway station will get a face-lift, including a "skywalk" indoor bridge that will shelter gamers from the harsh weather as winter approaches.
The new look into the amenities at the Aqueduct comes at a time when the debate over legalizing table games is heating up.
Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver said he would be open to converting the racino into a full-fledged casino.
Speller said he'd be "very happy to participate" if the state ban is removed.

In your professional, non-binding, non-legal, shoot from the hip, opinion Face, do you think full class 3 will ever be a reality in non-tribal New York?

Quote: Ayecarumba

In your professional, non-binding, non-legal, shoot from the hip, opinion Face, do you think full class 3 will ever be a reality in non-tribal New York?

Well, the tribe certainly doesn't want it, which is so much fart in so much wind, really. NY's racino in Hamburg (just south of Buffalo) is in direct violation of the State/Nation Compact already, so any hump NYS has to cross with regards to Nation rights to gambling (if there is any) will be properly bulldozed just like all agreements before it. In any case, the casino I mentioned to begin this thread is near NYC. The State/Nation agreement only stretches to Rt 14, which runs north/south from Lake Ontario to the PA border and splits the Finger Lakes. So even if a higher court sides with the Nation, that would only exclude maybe 2/5ths of NYS.

As far as NYS's stance on it, I'm not really familiar with the law of why it's currently not allowed and who made the law. I know the people were very much against the Seneca's casinos in Buffalo especially, but that seemed to be half cultural / half economic. People were against "losing" a part of Buffalo (that land would become Seneca territory), and were against a casino possibly (probably?) suffocating the city's restaurant, hotels, and retail due to the Seneca's tax-free advantage. In other words, it didn't seem to be a moral issue like "gambling is wrong, shouldn't be here, whatever" but more of how it was coming about.

In my personal opinion being ignorant of NYS gaming law, I'd say sure. Gaming seems to be the new cash cow, and NYS is a financial mess. They've already "allowed" Class III in a tribal capacity, and they already have the infrastructure in their many Class II facilities. I'm actually surprised it's taken this long for the Class III idea to get started. Stay tuned...

I should also add that the Seneca Nation is currently attempting to open another Class III casino in the Catskills. I have nearly no information on it as of yet and am kind of perplexed on the issue as it stands, but I believe a land claim has been filed and the wheels are turning to get that idea up and running. For now it is but hopes and dreams, but as always I'll keep you posted.

I don't blame buffalo for not wanting Seneca to open a casino in the city. The area around Seneca Niagara's a complete "shithole" and the casino and the state should have agreed for some kind of economic rehabilitation to the area around the casino.

Isn't Turning Stone near Syracuse still technically illegal as litigation has been going on for as long as it has been open?

Quote: boymimbo

I don't blame buffalo for not wanting Seneca to open a casino in the city. The area around Seneca Niagara's a complete "shithole" and the casino and the state should have agreed for some kind of economic rehabilitation to the area around the casino.

They kind of did. I mean, the Nation was required to pay a percentage of the slot take to NYS. NYS was free to do with that money what it so chose to do, including rehabilitating piss poor NF and it's sadder cousin, Buffalo. But they didn't, because government, especially NYS's, isn't about making things better. Any improvement to these areas is going to have to come from somewhere else.

Quote: teddys

Isn't Turning Stone near Syracuse still technically illegal as litigation has been going on for as long as it has been open?

I'm not familiar with Turning Stone as that's the Oneida tribe. But to kind of speak on that point while also addressing boymimbo, the Seneca's operation is also in violation with State Compacts. The tribe no longer pays a dime to the state since the state violated the agreement by opening the Hamburg location. Truely, if you even want to witness the epitome of clusterfuck, you should delve into the world of State/Nation contracts. In the Seneca's case, NYS violated, so the tribe refused to pay. NYS continues to "charge" the Nation, although no funds exchange. The State also continues to bang on about the tobacco issue (a whole 'nuther level of cluster) and is currently going to great lengths to monkeywrench that operation, which could get the cig companies involved. The Nation also continues to "charge tolls" to every vehicle that crosses the reservation on I90, even though not a dollar of THAT money exchanges. So the fact that Turning Stone is in court with NYS neither surprises me, nor makes me think it's "illegal". As one who grew up in and knows only this way of life, it's just business as usual.

Quote: boymimbo

I don't blame buffalo for not wanting Seneca to open a casino in the city. The area around Seneca Niagara's a complete "shithole" and the casino and the state should have agreed for some kind of economic rehabilitation to the area around the casino.

The area was a shithole before the casino. It is slightly better now, but not much. I believe there actually has to be a proposition on the ballot for the voters in NY state to change the law to allow non Indian casinos to exist. I am not sure about the 'class' of the casino, because obviously 'racinos' already exist. Most of the local opposition to the Buffalo casino was based more on 'its bad for the local people, it won't bring in outside (tourist) money' argument.

Quote: Face

NY's racino in Hamburg (just south of Buffalo) is in direct violation of the State/Nation Compact already,

This is not true, the racino is not in violation of the compact. The compact deals with the issue of class III gaming. The "slot machines" at the racino are actually "video lottery terminals" and are considered class II gaming.

If you believe that the racino is in violation of the compact, then the the Seneca Nation of Indians is also in violation of the compact with their "Seneca Gaming and Entertainment" facilities in Salamanca and Irving, NY, which have the same types of class II gaming machines.

Quote: Fleaswatter

This is not true, the racino is not in violation of the compact. The compact deals with the issue of class III gaming. The "slot machines" at the racino are actually "video lottery terminals" and are considered class II gaming.

If you believe that the racino is in violation of the compact, then the the Seneca Nation of Indians is also in violation of the compact with their "Seneca Gaming and Entertainment" facilities in Salamanca and Irving, NY, which have the same types of class II gaming machines.

Negative. SG&E facilities are allowed within the area of exclusivity because they are also owned by the Seneca Nation and they exist on tribal land. If the Nation wanted to plop down another slot hall on their square mile in Oil Springs near Cuba Lake, they would be allowed to do that too.

And yes, the racino IS in violation. The Compact states that the Nation shall have total exclusivity with respect to the installation and operation of, and no person or entity other than the Nation shall be permitted to install or operate, Gaming Devices, including slot machines, within this geographic area. The ONLY exception is if the Tuscarora Indian Nation or Tonowanda Band of Senecas also decide to open a gaming facility.

That is straight from the several hundred page legally binding contract signed by the President of the Nation and the Governor of NY, of which I have a copy.

Quote: Face

The new look into the amenities at the Aqueduct comes at a time when the debate over legalizing table games is heating up.
Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver said he would be open to converting the racino into a full-fledged casino.
Speller said he'd be "very happy to participate" if the state ban is removed.

Pennsylvania was initially very adverse to creating a casino culture. They just wanted slot machines because they were tired of seeing money go out of state. The tax structure on the slots was set so that the state would collect the majority of the money. In exchange the casinos were guaranteed by law not to have a second casino within 15 miles, and the total number in the state was limited so that everyone had almost no competition.

Well the casinos started complaining that they weren't making enough money. In some cases the casino reneged on their contract to build hotels, shopping and other amentities. Finally the state (in exchange for a heft initial fee of $150 million) agreed to let them install table games at a much lower tax rate. Now 1/3 of the after tax revenue comes from table games, even though they only bring in 1/5 of the gross revenue.

I don't think PA is worried much about Aqueduct. But NJ which should take another large blow to coin machines will probably suffer more. Initially the peopl inChinatown will take a 90 minute bus ride to play table games in PA, vs. a 45 minute bus and subway ride to Queens.

" That is straight from the several hundred page legally binding contract signed by the President of the Nation and the Governor of NY, of which I have a copy. "

That settles it for me, Every Indian knows the white man ALWAYS honors his treaties !

You are wrong. The compact only deals with the issue of class III gaming. This is straight from the gaming compact which I also have a copy of and anyone with a computer can read and download it from the Seneca Nation of Indians website. Here is the link: http://www.sni.org/Government/GamingCompact.aspx

I qoute form the compact: "NOW, THEREFORE, the Nation and the state, consistent with the Memoramdum of Understanding between the State Governor and the President of the Seneca Nation of Indians executed on June 20th 2001, and in consideration of the undertakings and agreements hereinafter set forth, hereby enter this Class III Gaming Compact."


The "slot machines" located at the racinos are not class III gaming machines, they are video lottery terminals (VLT's).

Why did the phrase " white man speak with a forked tongue" come to mind after reading the above ??

Quote: buzzpaff

Why did the phrase " white man speak with a forked tongue" come to mind after reading the above ??

If you were referring to my post, I do not understand why you said this.

When it comes to "class III slot machines" and "video lottery ternimals", while they look very similiar, there are significient differences in both the way they operate and are regulated by federal and state government.

Quote: Fleaswatter

You are wrong. The compact only deals with the issue of class III gaming. This is straight from the gaming compact which I also have a copy of and anyone with a computer can read and download it from the Seneca Nation of Indians website. Here is the link: http://www.sni.org/Government/GamingCompact.aspx

I qoute form the compact: "NOW, THEREFORE, the Nation and the state, consistent with the Memoramdum of Understanding between the State Governor and the President of the Seneca Nation of Indians executed on June 20th 2001, and in consideration of the undertakings and agreements hereinafter set forth, hereby enter this Class III Gaming Compact."


The "slot machines" located at the racinos are not class III gaming machines, they are video lottery terminals (VLT's).

I'm no lawyer, but I still disagree. Yes, this is a "Class III Gaming Compact". Yours is a little harder to navigate, but the 14th page after the Table of Contents, Item 12.a.1 is where I quoted the exclusivity clause. The phrase "total exclusivity with respect to the installation and operation of... Gaming Devices, including slot machines" does not define said non-permitted games as Class II or III, it just says, "Gaming Devices, including slot machines". While Class II video lottery terminals may not be "Slot Machines', they are certainly a Gaming Device, which is why I interpreted them as "illegal" and stated it as such.

To a normal (See: non-lawyer) person, this just seems obvious. Of course, when speaking lawyer, what seems obvious can in fact be the exact opposite. In any case, I feel further debate between ourselves would result in the same "yeah-huh" "nuh-uh" debate currently occuring between the State and Nation, and not really applicable to this thread. So, for the sake of integrity, I'll recant my earlier statement of it being illegal and adjust it to "I and the Nation THINK Hamburg is in violation, while the State does not. This issue is still being debated in a court of law."

Quote: Face

The State/Nation agreement only stretches to Rt 17, which runs north/south from Lake Ontario to the PA border and splits the Finger Lakes.

State Route 17, a k a the Southern Tier Expressway (and rumored to be soon designated I-86) runs several hundred miles east-west, from the New Jersey border to Barcelona on the shore of Lake Erie. Perhaps you mean U.S. 11 or its latter-day reincaranation, I-81.

Quote: SanchoPanza

State Route 17, a k a the Southern Tier Expressway (and rumored to be soon designated I-86) runs several hundred miles east-west, from the New Jersey border to Barcelona on the shore of Lake Erie. Perhaps you mean U.S. 11 or its latter-day reincaranation, I-81.

Not 11, but thank you, it was an error. 17's right outside my office so it musta slipped in subconsciously. State Rt 14 is the correct border.

Quote: Face

I'm no lawyer, but I still disagree. Yes, this is a "Class III Gaming Compact". Yours is a little harder to navigate, but the 14th page after the Table of Contents, Item 12.a.1 is where I quoted the exclusivity clause. The phrase "total exclusivity with respect to the installation and operation of... Gaming Devices, including slot machines" does not define said non-permitted games as Class II or III, it just says, "Gaming Devices, including slot machines". While Class II video lottery terminals may not be "Slot Machines', they are certainly a Gaming Device, which is why I interpreted them as "illegal" and stated it as such.

To a normal (See: non-lawyer) person, this just seems obvious. Of course, when speaking lawyer, what seems obvious can in fact be the exact opposite. In any case, I feel further debate between ourselves would result in the same "yeah-huh" "nuh-uh" debate currently occuring between the State and Nation, and not really applicable to this thread. So, for the sake of integrity, I'll recant my earlier statement of it being illegal and adjust it to "I and the Nation THINK Hamburg is in violation, while the State does not. This issue is still being debated in a court of law."

I appreciate your answer and concur that further dabate would not result in anything productive. Eventually this will be decided by arbitration or maybe the courts.

Quote: boymimbo

I don't blame buffalo for not wanting Seneca to open a casino in the city. The area around Seneca Niagara's a complete "shithole" and the casino and the state should have agreed for some kind of economic rehabilitation to the area around the casino.

As dumpy as it is, it is still nicer than when I lived in WNY 6 years ago. I still find the whole thing a joke and think NY would be smart to let anyone bid for casino licenses. You can bet Steve Wynn would have a nicer facility instead of trying to milk an out-of-date convention center for the last nickel.

" When it comes to "class III slot machines" and "video lottery ternimals", while they look very similiar, there are significient differences in both the way they operate and are regulated by federal and state government. "

Sort of like putting a bra on a bull and calling it a cow. I bet Sitting Bull wishes he had enforced his immigration laws more strictly.

Daily News seems to be complaining about honesty...

Daily News complains that Aqueduct is marketing itself as a casino rather than some euphemism or as a Video Lottery parlor.

"They're proudly calling it a full-fledged gaming parlor - in a state where the Constitution supposedly bans casino gambling.

"The gambling options lying in wait" .... interesting terminology there! Gambling as some predator lying in wait for the unwary despite all the publicity, bright lights and open use of the term casino.

"will offer electronic baccarat, roulette, craps and sic bo run by computers. The baccarat tables feature real cards dealt by robots." ... Robots? So no longer is it a digital image of a stylized human being its now an actual robot?

Governor has floated the idea of asking voters to ratify a constitutional amendment legalizing casinos.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2011/09/25/2011-09-25_nys_dicey_proposition.html#ixzz1Z3QL1ssw

I looked up that robot thing and its a pair of glass enclosed robotic arms manipulating playing cards. Seems silly but I guess the dealer never makes mistakes or seeks a raise. Eight betting positions. I think I'd prefer a live dealer though.

Non-tippers of course will love the robot.

I personally would prefer a live dealer. Or if none is available, Dan Lubin.

Face:

I have a question about the Tribal compact boundary(ies).... is Route 17 (AKA I-86) the sole NW/SE boundary, or does something like I-84 also come into play?

The reason I ask, is that there were many top-name casino hotels built around Ellenville back in the late 50's/ Early 60's. AFAIK, these were "ready to go" casino, that merely did not have the equipment installed. Was any legal respect given to that situation?, thanks.

N&B

Quote: NandB

Face:

I have a question about the Tribal compact boundary(ies).... is Route 17 (AKA I-86) the sole NW/SE boundary, or does something like I-84 also come into play?

The reason I ask, is that there were many top-name casino hotels built around Ellenville back in the late 50's/ Early 60's. AFAIK, these were "ready to go" casino, that merely did not have the equipment installed. Was any legal respect given to that situation?, thanks.

N&B

The I-86 was an error on my part. The correct border is Rt 14. Rt 14 runs north/south between the Finger Lakes from Lake Ontario to the PA border, so as far as my non-lawyer mind can comprehend it, that would mean everything from mid-Finger Lakes to the west would be "protected" from having a NY casino operating. However, as has been pointed out, NY currently operates a Class II racino in Hamburg, which is about 20 minutes south of Seneca Niagara, 25 minutes north of SG&E in Irving, and 40 minutes north of Seneca Allegany. In other words, it's smack dab in the middle of the tribal operation.

I've not heard of these Ellenville places, nor have I even heard of a town called Ellenville. But, and this again is my totally non-lawyer opinion, if they fell in this area I'd assume it was prohibited, but as has been proven that really doesn't mean all that much.

My reference to Ellenville is more appropriately called the "Catskill" area Hotel/Resorts built in the 50's/60's. These are East of the Finger Lakes Region, between the the small cities of Kingston, and Port Jervis, NY. Some of these also were planned a little West of there in Monticello/Liberty NY. Last I knew and saw, this area has fallen on hard-times.

N&B

Ah, 10-4. To answer your question acurately, then no. Everything east of Finger Lakes doesn't fall under this "protection". However you may have seen earlier this thread about Nation talks considering opening a casino in the Catskill area. Maybe those old ready-to-go sites are part of their plan? And how would the Compact "protection" look with a tribal casino down yonder? I've no answers for these questions. Not yet, at least.

Quote: Face

As I stated in a separate thread, NYS is currently considering allowing Class III gaming (other than tribal)...

Movies such as Rounders depicted high stakes poker as being all over town in NYC. I know that decades ago (prior to Atlantic City) a full fledged casino opened in the Chelsea area of Manhattan but undercover cops soon infiltrated it and the cops shut it down with all those hip, trendy yuppies spending a night in the clink. For years a Rabbi ran a religious school in Brooklyn that involved Blackjack and Craps as well as Poker. He finally got shut down when the cops found he had no credentials as a Rabbi.

Do you know the current situation as to gambling in NYC? Does Off Track Betting still take the fleas away from serious bookies and lead housewives into debt? Are there upscale games available or is it simply cheaper to go to Atlantic City rather than risk an illegal casino? Are the slots and slot look-a likes drawing the Retirees only?

Robot baccarat in Cambodia. The machine allows some game parlors to skirt a law that says no live table games can be dealt near the capital city.

Quote: FleaStiff

Does Off Track Betting still take the fleas away from serious bookies and lead housewives into debt?

There is no more Offtrack Betting. It went broke a while ago.

BY Jerry Bossert
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
Friday, February 25th 2011, 5:58 PM
Related News
OTB boss making $125G for nothing

It appears New York City-Off Track Betting wasn't the only bookmaker that lost money. So did Suffolk County OTB.

On Thursday, officials at Suffolk OTB met to decide if the broke bookmaker should file for Chapter 9 Bankruptcy protection with a decision expected to be announced next week.

"Nine months ago, I released a report showing that the financial condition of the state's Off Track Betting Corporations outside of New York City had substantially deteriorated over the past five years," said State Comptroller Tom DiNapoli. "I recommended several changes to keep these operations afloat, but they went unheeded."

New York Racing Association President and CEO Charles Hayward announced that Suffolk OTB owes the NYRA $1 million during a Feb. 7 Senate hearing held by Senator John J. Bonacic.

"First New York City OTB failed, and now Suffolk County Regional Off Track Betting Corp. is on the verge of filing for bankruptcy protection. Others will follow," DiNapoli warned.

NYCOTB filed for bankruptcy in Dec. 2009 before closing for good on Dec. 8 of last year. nydailynews

SR 14 runs from Lake Ontario(Sodus Point) South, through Lyons, Geneva, Watkins Glen to Horseheads. That's where it intersects with the Southern Tier Expressway SR 17. That sounds like the Eastern border of the compact area.

My Dad frequents the Racino at Finger Lakes Race Track in Canandaigua, a few miles south of the Thruway exit for Canandaigua.

Quote: ten2win

SR 14 runs from Lake Ontario(Sodus Point) South, through Lyons, Geneva, Watkins Glen to Horseheads. That's where it intersects with the Southern Tier Expressway SR 17. That sounds like the Eastern border of the compact area.

My Dad frequents the Racino at Finger Lakes Race Track in Canandaigua, a few mile south of the Thruway exit for Canandaigua.

Yup, that's the one. Runs along the western border of Seneca Lake bewteen Seneca and Keuka. SR17 (I-86) has no bearing though, Rt 14 runs into PA and the "compact area" extends there as well.

Early line on new Aqueduct racino revenues: New York State hits the jackpot Glitzy gaming hub rakes in $14 million in first 10 days

BY IRVING DEJOHN
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Originally Published: Wednesday, November 9 2011, 6:00 PM

The newly opened Aqueduct racino has kicked off its first 10 days in Queens with a hot hand, recently released figures show.

The South Ozone Park gaming hub raked in more than $14 million in revenue, according to figures released by the New York Lottery.

“These results are simply amazing. They far exceeded our expectations,” said Gordon Medenica, Lottery director.

Of that profit, 44% goes into a state education fund and 31% goes back to racino operator Resorts World New York.

The remaining 25% is distributed to the New York Racing Association and the casino vendors.

“Money is being spent in-state. That’s just a great change for New York,” Medenica said.

Michael Speller, president of Resorts World, said racino officials are “fully aware the results will stabilize” and credited their 1,200-person staff.

In its infancy, the Queens attraction’s returns are already rivaling the more established Empire City in Yonkers.

Empire City and Aqueduct revenues both topped $10 million in the week ending Nov. 5, with Empire City edging out it’s Queens counterpart by a slim margin,

according to weekly tallies compiled by the Lottery.

“I think there’s a lot of untapped demand for gaming facilities in the New York market,” Medenica said.

Lottery officials said they see the two as “anchors” for gaming in the state, with Aqueduct pulling from the south and Yonkers pulling from the north.

Earlier this week racino officials announced that they were adding 150 more jobs to address demand.

“We have said from the beginning that we will continue to look for opportunities to create even more jobs and are thrilled to be able to do that so soon after our first

phase of opening,” Speller said.

Thus far, the only hiccup with the new glitzy gaming hub has been traffic congestion, said Betty Braton, chairwoman of Community Board 10.

“Most concerns that have been expressed to me deal with the traffic,” she said. “It’s difficult to judge by two weekends.”

The second half of the Aqueduct racino, which will include a second floor of gaming tailored to high rollers, is set to open in late December.

idejohn@nydailynews.com

Man got lucky at Seneca Niagra Casino.

Won over five grand. Went to casino bar. Met a woman. No rooms available at casino. Went to hotel across the street with her. Awoke at 11:00am. She was gone. Anyone want to hazard a guess about whether his winnings were still in the room?

Quote: FleaStiff

Man got lucky at Seneca Niagra Casino.

Won over five grand. Went to casino bar. Met a woman. No rooms available at casino. Went to hotel across the street with her. Awoke at 11:00am. She was gone. Anyone want to hazard a guess about whether his winnings were still in the room?

So now this woman is all over the casino's security cameras, and is the prime suspect in a $5,000 robbery. What a dummy.

But if you think about it, that guy got laid for free, so good for him, I guess....

He was charged for the room and if I were the desk clerk I'd charge him for not being checked out on time if the cops needed to send a fingerprint technician to the room and the hotel had to clean up print powder.

He was so blotto he couldn't remember a name or a description beyond 'willing female'. Lots of hookers wear wigs. She will just stay away for awhile and wear a different wig/hairstyle/color.

Even if she gets convicted she and her boyfriend/pimp have his cash and he sure ain't getting a cent of it back, never.

Got laid? Probably. Or did he pass out first?

Quote: FleaStiff

He was charged for the room and if I were the desk clerk I'd charge him for not being checked out on time if the cops needed to send a fingerprint technician to the room and the hotel had to clean up print powder.

He was so blotto he couldn't remember a name or a description beyond 'willing female'. Lots of hookers wear wigs. She will just stay away for awhile and wear a different wig/hairstyle/color.

Even if she gets convicted she and her boyfriend/pimp have his cash and he sure ain't getting a cent of it back, never.

Got laid? Probably. Or did he pass out first?

I don't know if they are hookers, I can only assume, however, I would be willing to put my money where my mouth is if we were playing is she or isn't she. I'm no wig expert either but for the most part, I think I can tell, I haven't noticed many hookers wearing wigs.

I think the guy would have a hard time proving she stole his money. It seems like it would be his word against her word?

In the early 1980s, a video store was raided by Suffolk County Police and about a half dozen videos were seized as pornographic. He was going to pay a hefty fine and not carry hard core pornography when some group offered to bankroll his defense. His was one of about a dozen stores in the same situation but only he fought it. It took about two years, but he was cleared of everything at trial with the jury deliberations taking about ten minutes. After he was acquitted, they sued for late fees for all the movies the DA had impounded.

Quote: AxelWolf

I think the guy would have a hard time proving she stole his money. It seems like it would be his word against her word?

Good point.

For all we know, he offered some strange chick 5 grand for a roll in the hay, she said yes, then when he sobered up in the morning he had a change of heart.