pacomartin
pacomartin
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September 24th, 2011 at 12:42:15 PM permalink
Quote: Face

The new look into the amenities at the Aqueduct comes at a time when the debate over legalizing table games is heating up.
Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver said he would be open to converting the racino into a full-fledged casino.
Speller said he'd be "very happy to participate" if the state ban is removed.



Pennsylvania was initially very adverse to creating a casino culture. They just wanted slot machines because they were tired of seeing money go out of state. The tax structure on the slots was set so that the state would collect the majority of the money. In exchange the casinos were guaranteed by law not to have a second casino within 15 miles, and the total number in the state was limited so that everyone had almost no competition.

Well the casinos started complaining that they weren't making enough money. In some cases the casino reneged on their contract to build hotels, shopping and other amentities. Finally the state (in exchange for a heft initial fee of $150 million) agreed to let them install table games at a much lower tax rate. Now 1/3 of the after tax revenue comes from table games, even though they only bring in 1/5 of the gross revenue.

I don't think PA is worried much about Aqueduct. But NJ which should take another large blow to coin machines will probably suffer more. Initially the peopl inChinatown will take a 90 minute bus ride to play table games in PA, vs. a 45 minute bus and subway ride to Queens.
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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September 24th, 2011 at 12:52:24 PM permalink
" That is straight from the several hundred page legally binding contract signed by the President of the Nation and the Governor of NY, of which I have a copy. "

That settles it for me, Every Indian knows the white man ALWAYS honors his treaties !
Fleaswatter
Fleaswatter
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September 24th, 2011 at 1:36:21 PM permalink
You are wrong. The compact only deals with the issue of class III gaming. This is straight from the gaming compact which I also have a copy of and anyone with a computer can read and download it from the Seneca Nation of Indians website. Here is the link: http://www.sni.org/Government/GamingCompact.aspx

I qoute form the compact: "NOW, THEREFORE, the Nation and the state, consistent with the Memoramdum of Understanding between the State Governor and the President of the Seneca Nation of Indians executed on June 20th 2001, and in consideration of the undertakings and agreements hereinafter set forth, hereby enter this Class III Gaming Compact."


The "slot machines" located at the racinos are not class III gaming machines, they are video lottery terminals (VLT's).
new motto for the left: I don't know if I received bad information, but I think I suspected there was more than there actually was, (John Brennan Mar 25, 2019)
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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September 24th, 2011 at 1:45:01 PM permalink
Why did the phrase " white man speak with a forked tongue" come to mind after reading the above ??
Fleaswatter
Fleaswatter
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September 24th, 2011 at 2:15:58 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

Why did the phrase " white man speak with a forked tongue" come to mind after reading the above ??



If you were referring to my post, I do not understand why you said this.

When it comes to "class III slot machines" and "video lottery ternimals", while they look very similiar, there are significient differences in both the way they operate and are regulated by federal and state government.
new motto for the left: I don't know if I received bad information, but I think I suspected there was more than there actually was, (John Brennan Mar 25, 2019)
Face
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Face
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September 24th, 2011 at 2:26:41 PM permalink
Quote: Fleaswatter

You are wrong. The compact only deals with the issue of class III gaming. This is straight from the gaming compact which I also have a copy of and anyone with a computer can read and download it from the Seneca Nation of Indians website. Here is the link: http://www.sni.org/Government/GamingCompact.aspx

I qoute form the compact: "NOW, THEREFORE, the Nation and the state, consistent with the Memoramdum of Understanding between the State Governor and the President of the Seneca Nation of Indians executed on June 20th 2001, and in consideration of the undertakings and agreements hereinafter set forth, hereby enter this Class III Gaming Compact."


The "slot machines" located at the racinos are not class III gaming machines, they are video lottery terminals (VLT's).



I'm no lawyer, but I still disagree. Yes, this is a "Class III Gaming Compact". Yours is a little harder to navigate, but the 14th page after the Table of Contents, Item 12.a.1 is where I quoted the exclusivity clause. The phrase "total exclusivity with respect to the installation and operation of... Gaming Devices, including slot machines" does not define said non-permitted games as Class II or III, it just says, "Gaming Devices, including slot machines". While Class II video lottery terminals may not be "Slot Machines', they are certainly a Gaming Device, which is why I interpreted them as "illegal" and stated it as such.

To a normal (See: non-lawyer) person, this just seems obvious. Of course, when speaking lawyer, what seems obvious can in fact be the exact opposite. In any case, I feel further debate between ourselves would result in the same "yeah-huh" "nuh-uh" debate currently occuring between the State and Nation, and not really applicable to this thread. So, for the sake of integrity, I'll recant my earlier statement of it being illegal and adjust it to "I and the Nation THINK Hamburg is in violation, while the State does not. This issue is still being debated in a court of law."
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SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
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September 24th, 2011 at 2:53:52 PM permalink
Quote: Face

The State/Nation agreement only stretches to Rt 17, which runs north/south from Lake Ontario to the PA border and splits the Finger Lakes.


State Route 17, a k a the Southern Tier Expressway (and rumored to be soon designated I-86) runs several hundred miles east-west, from the New Jersey border to Barcelona on the shore of Lake Erie. Perhaps you mean U.S. 11 or its latter-day reincaranation, I-81.
Face
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Face
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September 24th, 2011 at 2:59:45 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

State Route 17, a k a the Southern Tier Expressway (and rumored to be soon designated I-86) runs several hundred miles east-west, from the New Jersey border to Barcelona on the shore of Lake Erie. Perhaps you mean U.S. 11 or its latter-day reincaranation, I-81.



Not 11, but thank you, it was an error. 17's right outside my office so it musta slipped in subconsciously. State Rt 14 is the correct border.
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Fleaswatter
Fleaswatter
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September 24th, 2011 at 3:02:41 PM permalink
Quote: Face

I'm no lawyer, but I still disagree. Yes, this is a "Class III Gaming Compact". Yours is a little harder to navigate, but the 14th page after the Table of Contents, Item 12.a.1 is where I quoted the exclusivity clause. The phrase "total exclusivity with respect to the installation and operation of... Gaming Devices, including slot machines" does not define said non-permitted games as Class II or III, it just says, "Gaming Devices, including slot machines". While Class II video lottery terminals may not be "Slot Machines', they are certainly a Gaming Device, which is why I interpreted them as "illegal" and stated it as such.

To a normal (See: non-lawyer) person, this just seems obvious. Of course, when speaking lawyer, what seems obvious can in fact be the exact opposite. In any case, I feel further debate between ourselves would result in the same "yeah-huh" "nuh-uh" debate currently occuring between the State and Nation, and not really applicable to this thread. So, for the sake of integrity, I'll recant my earlier statement of it being illegal and adjust it to "I and the Nation THINK Hamburg is in violation, while the State does not. This issue is still being debated in a court of law."




I appreciate your answer and concur that further dabate would not result in anything productive. Eventually this will be decided by arbitration or maybe the courts.
new motto for the left: I don't know if I received bad information, but I think I suspected there was more than there actually was, (John Brennan Mar 25, 2019)
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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September 24th, 2011 at 4:21:33 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

I don't blame buffalo for not wanting Seneca to open a casino in the city. The area around Seneca Niagara's a complete "shithole" and the casino and the state should have agreed for some kind of economic rehabilitation to the area around the casino.



As dumpy as it is, it is still nicer than when I lived in WNY 6 years ago. I still find the whole thing a joke and think NY would be smart to let anyone bid for casino licenses. You can bet Steve Wynn would have a nicer facility instead of trying to milk an out-of-date convention center for the last nickel.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

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