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AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson 
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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July 9th, 2021 at 9:34:22 AM permalink
Mdawg if I dont understand the email I received then why dont you email them and then post the response you get.

Speedy I am responding to the subject. It was Mdawg who brought it up.
coachbelly
coachbelly
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July 9th, 2021 at 9:39:01 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

And if they assigned specific chips to a player what are the mechanics for doing it? They'd have to have a system of removing chip identification when players lost bets, and they'd have to add chip identification when players are paid in chips from the table's bank. You havent addressed how that is done or even if it is done.



The chip identification is not added or removed with each transaction.

Scanners in the table scan chips into and out of the dealer's inventory, and into and out of the player's inventory, as the outcomes are resolved.

The chip ID does not change, its location changes as the chip is moved around the table, or casino.

These are standard inventory control processes, used throughout commerce when items are moved from one location or account to another. The item codes are not added or removed, the location or account code for the item changes...debited or credited from one account to another.
coachbelly
coachbelly
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July 9th, 2021 at 9:40:28 AM permalink
.dupe.
MDawg
MDawg
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July 9th, 2021 at 9:57:38 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg


I went down there and played. I won, but that's somewhat besides the point. I drew a marker and while playing I grilled more than one pit boss, asking, "Are the chips really assigned to me?" Answer from all of them: YES. Second question, "What happens if I hand some of my chips to someone else, will the system allow it?" Answer from all of them: "Well, I'll allow it, but the system will let me know that you did it." Follow up third question, "So will those chips then show as belonging to that other player who handed them over? If so, for how long?" Answer: "Well, for a little while I guess. Until the system records those chips as now belonging to the receiving player."


For further real world details just refer back to the actual complete post, where two yellow 1000 chips of mine were at least for a bit of time electronically retained by the system as belonging to me, even after being returned to the house tray.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
redietz
redietz
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July 9th, 2021 at 9:59:22 AM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

You are correct...so it may not be so simple to pass them during your bathroom scenario, a scan at a table or the cage could detect that.




Coach, I wasn't specifically talking about passing chipped cheques. Loosen up your perspective here.

What MDawg said was that the monogramming allegedly stopped cheques from being passed between players at the same table to prevent tandem bets that would circumvent house limits. (Okay -- maybe for blackjack. But baccarat? C'mon, man.)

But all that aside -- the issue isn't cheques at a table. The argument MDawg was making was regarding preventing some shared bankroll arrangement. Let's say some blokes went to a table to double team a positive blackjack count or a sloppy dealer and one almost goes broke. All they have to do is take a smoke break and re-capitalize the broke dude with cash. It has nothing to do with the chipped cheques.

Versteh?

I know nothing, but I think you're looking at this backwards. The chipped cheques are to prevent counterfeiting and to impose a kind of permanent ongoing accounting record for all cheques above a certain denomination. Any player tracking accuracy is a side effect, a fortuitous aside, not the main thrust of the tracking.

It takes a certain attitude to presume that the primary purpose of chipped cheques is to track players and rate them accurately. I'm going to describe that attitude as exceptionally narcissistic and more than slightly naive.
"You can't breathe dead hippo waking, sleeping, and eating, and at the same time keep your precarious grip on existence."
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
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July 9th, 2021 at 10:03:30 AM permalink
Quote: redietz

What MDawg said was that the monogramming allegedly stopped cheques from being passed between players at the same table to prevent tandem bets that would circumvent house limits. (Okay -- maybe for blackjack. But baccarat? C'mon, man.)


I respect the fact that REDietz states for the record that "I 'Know Nothing.'" (Wasn't that a political party, that actually was quite opinionated and claimed to know everything?)

However, when he opines that the house doesn't care about House Limits on BACCARAT that shows knowing less than nothing. Yes they care, and they enforce this all the time! I've seen it many times at public Bacc tables where a player is betting to the limit and his buddy tries to place even a few chips on the same side wager (bank or player) and it is disallowed because the chips came from the main player. One bankroll. One betting limit.

If the House didn't care about table max limits, they wouldn't make players like me get huge credit lines to be able to bet beyond these publicly posted limits. But every player has a table max limit, whether posted or special and the casino does not allow it to be circumvented.


What I find interesting, is that at least at Baccarat, one may obtain a million dollar line, even a ten million dollar line, and still just bet 100 at one's private table. The high credit line gets a Reserved private table and a higher table max, but no minimum is imposed other than the standard 100 at the High Limit salon.
Last edited by: MDawg on Jul 9, 2021
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
coachbelly
coachbelly
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July 9th, 2021 at 10:35:36 AM permalink
Quote: redietz

Coach, I wasn't specifically talking about passing chipped cheques.



Quote: redietz

at the table because the chips are monogrammed to individual players at the tables. But then the monogramming is turned off once they leave the tables. You know, the simple way to circumvent that is plan beforehand and then leave the table simultaneously for the bathroom.



All monogrammed chips are chipped cheques, but not all chipped cheques are monogrammed?

LOL...OK, we got it...buddy.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson 
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July 9th, 2021 at 11:18:51 AM permalink
Coach, I am so very happy you wrote this:

Quote: coachbelly

Scanners in the table scan chips into and out of the dealer's inventory, and into and out of the player's inventory, as the outcomes are resolved.



Now, since I've reported on RFID technology and have interviewed manufacturers, would you please tell me which manufacturer's system does this automatically?

I have never heard of such an automated system.

I only know of systems where chips are scanned and then the dealer or boxman must link the new chips to a player's account when won, and then must be deleted from a player's account when lost. I do not know of scanners that "know" to add or subtract the specific ID numbers to/from a specific player.

This is why I said initially that to add or subtract chips would delay the game. That delay comes from inputting the player's name or account number.

I really would like to talk to this manufacturer about their automated system that you seem to know exists.

I admit I've never heard of the maker.

By the way, consider how long it takes to record a buy-in at a table's computer. It could take thirty seconds or more for the floor person or boxman to enter the player's ID.

If the system is not automated the way you say it is, at a table with four players this could mean a two to four minute delay between hands, deals, or rolls of the dice.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson 
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July 9th, 2021 at 11:32:38 AM permalink
Quote: redietz

The chipped cheques are to prevent counterfeiting and to impose a kind of permanent ongoing accounting record for all cheques above a certain denomination. Any player tracking accuracy is a side effect, a fortuitous aside, not the main thrust of the tracking.



Redietz I'm going to slightly disagree with you. When RFID chips and table scanners were first introduced at the Global Gaming Expo player tracking, anti counterfeiting and inventory control were all equally promoted.

The first demonstration was at a blackjack table. And accurate player tracking was heavily promoted because of the low casino margins in that game.

I covered that for KCAL. It was viewed as a big move to help consumers get fair ratings when they changed their bets and a way to protect casinos from over comping players.
coachbelly
coachbelly
Joined: Oct 21, 2013
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July 9th, 2021 at 12:02:28 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Now, since I've reported on RFID technology and have interviewed manufacturers, would you please tell me which manufacturer's system does this automatically?


Ask this guy, he'll have the name of the manufacturer...

ďItís all RFID,Ē casino operations chief Rick Hutchins said, referring to radio-frequency identification technology built into the first new Las Vegas resort to open since 2010. ďThe table knows exactly what Iím betting.Ē

ďI have $25 on the spot, the RFID chip knows that, and the (table) antenna underneath it. And if I bet these side bets, it also knows that as well,Ē Hutchins explained.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I have never heard of such an automated system.



Maybe you missed much of what was written earlier, here's a synopsis...
Quote: MDawg

As far as betting, at Baccarat, the computer system senses the value of the chips placed on the Bank or Player wager spots, and then tells the dealer exactly how much has been bet, and how much to pay out after each win.

All bets, Bank, Player, and all side bets, are placed on a section of the table that corresponds to your "number" at the Baccarat table, so that the system is able to track your exact bets, winnings, and chips.

The system keeps track of every bet and calculates your average, The system also keeps track of the hours played. There is no question that the system knows what chips you have - or rather, should have - at all times and keeps track.


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