Pennsylvania Casino Update

Since I was in the neighborhood I thought I would see how Rivers Casino in Pittsburgh is doing after a full week of table games. My first report is what was there on craps, or what was not there. THE BIG 6/8 IS *NOT* ON THE LAYOUT! This was a suprise as in training they were assuming it would be allowed. I can only assume PA banned this bet which I consider the stupidest in the casino (since it is the only bet I know of that pays less than the same bet on a different part of the layout for the same outcome.) PA was known to be benchmarking against neighboring states, so they must have taken advice from NJ?

Second. while the limits were still a little high, the crowd did not seem what it should have been. Granted the first time I was there was opening day and granted tonight was simply so beautiful many people would rather be outside than in a casino (sick!) but it did not seem what it should have been to me. But that is just my observation.

Virtually no wait for low-stakes poker, though the room was pretty filled.

My wife and I were there on Saturday late afternoon and evening. Craps tables were very crowded with people waiting to get in. I believe it was 2 tables at $10 and one at $15. We didn't play there. The whole place seemed understaffed. We waited 20 minutes for food at the deli type place and my wife needed a new players card which we didn't get since the line for that was over an hour!

We then went to the Meadows which was also very busy but they had the staff to take care of it. There were four or five craps tables open with limits of $10 and $25. We were able to get in at one side by side which was nice for us. At least a third of the crew seemed to be from Mountaineer. We played for a short while and then ate dinner. Food was decent by the way and was also good at the Rivers. Not the crap we are used to at Mountaineer. As a side note they had a $50,000 dollar drawing while we were there and I believe the only way to enter was to be there and to have had you card in a machine at least once in the hour before. The lady's name they called was not there to claim the prize! They will have another one next saturday for $75,000 and that one will be a draw until a winner is there type. Not bad odds for $75,000.

We are planning to go back to both places again on a Sunday morning when it might not be so crowded but first were going to Atlantic City!

A friend played at Hollywood Casino near Harrisburg and reports that the VIG on the buy 4/10 was only collected on the win. This is in contrast to what I found at Mt Airy Casino, where the VIG was collected up front. Sounds like PA gaming may have left some discretion to the individual casino?
Still looking for feedback on the field pays for the different PA casinos......

The Blackjack tables at the Erie, PA Casino (Presque Isle Downs), now requires their dealers to cut all 8 deck blackjack shoes to 4 decks. My ? to the Wizard and others: Does this have any effect on player odds if one is not counting? If they are?

In the high limit section ($50 & $100/hand) they have signs out saying no mid round entry. That's seen all the time on Vegas single/double deck games, but wow on a 6-deck shoe OUCH that is a long wait to start playing!

The PA rules are Surrender allowed, dealer stays on S17, split to 3 hands, no resplit of aces. 0.36% house edge. A funny rule is no even money can be paid for blackjack against a dealer Ace. Players are irate over that rule, don't follow basic strategy or even use surrender. Players are told they can buy insurance which works out the same as even money for a blackjack, but they are upset about putting more $$ on the table and don't believe that the payout is really the same.

I've also been to the Meadows and Rivers casinos in Pittsburgh. The Meadows uses RFID chips which cost them $2.55 each (even the $1 chips!). However they don't have PA gaming approval to use RFID readers at the tables or cashiers yet, so they are inactive.

edited-corrected PA rules listed, S17

Has anyone been to the Parx Casino in Bensalem since the tables opened? Looking for info on the minimums, but I can't findanything online and calling the casino has proved less than helpful as they just said "limits vary based on the crowd/time of day/day of week".

Quote: fredw

The PA rules are ... dealer stays on 16....

Really? Surely that's a typo, isn't it? If not, then new strategy charts are needed, I think.

Quote: fredw

A funny rule is no even money can be paid for blackjack against a dealer Ace. Players are irate over that rule, . . . . Players are told they can buy insurance which works out the same as even money for a blackjack, but they are upset about putting more $$ on the table and don't believe that the payout is really the same.

As stupid as the rule is, or as stupid as those complaining patrons seem, if they don't want to put up insurance when they would have taken even money, in the long run, they are actually ahead. After all, since it's a bad bet either way, if the stupid rule prevents them from making the bet, then maybe it was an intentional good rule....

It's a problem when you're down to your last bet and you get a blackjack while the dealer has an ace up. If you don't have the extra cash for the insurance, you're screwed. It's probably a good rule since, as you said, it prevents people from making a bad bet and requires them to put the cash up. But I suspect it will be changed.

Quote: Doc

Really? Surely that's a typo, isn't it? If not, then new strategy charts are needed, I think.

Thx, Corrected my post above to not give everyone on the board a heart attack. Airfare in to Erie isn't too easy to come by (or in much demand!) Hope nobody booked non refundable tickets based on this goof :->

Quote: teddys

It's a problem when you're down to your last bet and you get a blackjack while the dealer has an ace up. If you don't have the extra cash for the insurance, you're screwed. It's probably a good rule since, as you said, it prevents people from making a bad bet and requires them to put the cash up. But I suspect it will be changed.

Is "taking even money" a newer concept though? When I first started playing in AC, if you wanted even money you had to physically put up the Insurance bet. Only if you are "all in" does it really change anything. Ironically, the Shufflemaster machines that had become popular in PA the last 3 years didn't offer "Even Money"; you had to (be able to and) make the insurance bet. I didn't see people being irate at those machines the past few years.

Quote: cclub79

Is "taking even money" a newer concept though? When I first started playing in AC, if you wanted even money you had to physically put up the Insurance bet. Only if you are "all in" does it really change anything. Ironically, the Shufflemaster machines that had become popular in PA the last 3 years didn't offer "Even Money"; you had to (be able to and) make the insurance bet. I didn't see people being irate at those machines the past few years.

I'm going to lay some blame on dealers in general on this one. I've gotten into more than one argument with dealers who say that taking even money is NOT the same thing as taking insurance. I have physically laid out my chips and showed them how it works out to be the same and they still say it is not.

Now, in some gaming jurisdictions (Missouri for sure, and possibly a few others), the gaming commission says that since insurance is a separate bet, it cannot be offered and they MUST offer even money. (An inquiry into that explanation got me nowhere).

That being said, nearly every dealer will encourage a person to take even money, so now, players just assume that it is a guarantee. The PA rule seems really silly to me, if the player is willing to give money away by taking even money, but I'm sure dealer encouragement is leading to the outrage by some players.

Quote: Tiltpoul

I've gotten into more than one argument with dealers who say that taking even money is NOT the same thing as taking insurance.

It's not. One requires you to lay out the extra cash, the other doesn't. Mathematically, it's the same, as you proved. Some people still don't understand it. I was playing at the Shufflemaster machines and a guy wanted to take even money. He noticed they didn't have a button for it. I told him taking insurance would give the same result. He looked at me like I just got off a spaceship.

Taking even money every time you have a blackjack with a dealer ace up is not the worst decision in the world. It reduces your variance and it doesn't happen enough to make a severe difference in house edge. Arnold Snyder touches on this in "The Big Book of Blackjack."