odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 19th, 2015 at 2:15:05 PM permalink
Nice report.

6 card PGP? need to return to this - gotta sign off for now - but a quick check would seem to indicate the Wizard does not cover this game at WoO. If the game does not have a ridiculous HE to start with, then being able to double your bet ... hmmm.

Who else might have this game?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
tringlomane
tringlomane
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April 19th, 2015 at 2:19:21 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Nice report.

6 card PGP? need to return to this - gotta sign off for now - but a quick check would seem to indicate the Wizard does not cover this game at WoO. If the game does not have a ridiculous HE to start with, then being able to double your bet ... hmmm.

Who else might have this game?



One card copies will be big deal. They need the double bet rule so the player doesn't get fleeced.

Looking at Bally's website, this is a commission free game, so it is close to Mini Pai Gow in terms of house edge. The doubling with good hands rule isn't considered in that analysis though.
FinsRule
FinsRule
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April 19th, 2015 at 2:28:17 PM permalink
Did you go to the spot where the 3 states meet?
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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April 19th, 2015 at 2:46:41 PM permalink
Downstream is one of my favorite casinos. I've only been there once. But, if it was any closer to...well...anything, I'd definitely go back. Driving up to Downstream was a lot like driving up to Foxwoods. Roughly equal parts "this is NICE!" and "why is this here? I'm in the middle of nowhere!" But with Downstream, you also get the whole MO/KS/OK phenomenon on the drive in (you're in 3 states on the 1/2 mile drive between the highway and the parkinglot).

Many casinos in OK offer avenues to avoid the state-required ante. Maybe Downstream is the only one that does it via a player rating methodology. That seems to me to be a very good way to handle the antes. According to my notes: Kiowa waived all antes for everyone all the time every time I was there. I only visited on weekday evenings - maybe they do that differently at peak times. Wyandotte waived antes for anyone playing more than (I think) $25/hand. One of the casinos around Durant had an ante-free happy hour, and another spun a wheel to determine which seat would be ante-free on each hand.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Dicenor33
Dicenor33
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April 19th, 2015 at 2:55:50 PM permalink
OK has about 1000 casinos, none of them are for serious gamblers. Always wondered, why not built at least one "normal" casino and collect taxes, which would probably be larger from the combined profit of all of these so called casinos.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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April 19th, 2015 at 3:28:28 PM permalink
Quote: Dicenor33

OK has about 1000 casinos, none of them are for serious gamblers. Always wondered, why not built at least one "normal" casino and collect taxes, which would probably be larger from the combined profit of all of these so called casinos.



Not sure what you mean by this. Downstream, the subject of this thread, has liberal rules on all games. They also have an easy avenue available for avoiding the ante. What more do you want?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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April 19th, 2015 at 3:45:36 PM permalink
Re: 6 card PGP: It's distributed by SHFL/Bally. Pays were commission-free, and single-card copies were frequent, dealt with as I described. The double base bet thing, the PB said, is a casino-based bet, so I don't think it's part of the game as distributed. However, I never won it, either; every time I had a good enough hand to bet it, the dealer did not qualify and they pushed it. However, I only played the game for about 2 hours, so maybe played 70 hands, and bet it about 8 times.

Re: borders. Did not go to the exact corner; not sure if it's marked, though it probably is. But it was as said above, you're in MO until you're in OK at the casino, and maybe 1/4 mile at most to Kansas along Rte. 400, which passes the front of the casino.

Re: class II/III. I went with what they told me. I agree that the VP particularly seemed to act like class III. I'd be interested in knowing what's really going on there, because the table games played very much like I expected, and the majority of the slots/VP did not have any obvious bingo or background game indication.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
FinsRule
FinsRule
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April 19th, 2015 at 3:52:10 PM permalink
There is a spot marked on the property on the way to the parking lot. It's really weird. There's a sign directing you to the 3 state marker. You get there and there's a statue in the middle of the road with no explanation.

Then you turn around, haha.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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April 19th, 2015 at 4:09:41 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

There is a spot marked on the property on the way to the parking lot. It's really weird. There's a sign directing you to the 3 state marker. You get there and there's a statue in the middle of the road with no explanation.

Then you turn around, haha.



Drove right past it without realizing what it was. It seemed like pointless landscaping at the time; thanks for filling me in!
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 20th, 2015 at 3:03:45 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

One card copies will be big deal. They need the double bet rule so the player doesn't get fleeced.

Looking at Bally's website, this is a commission free game, so it is close to Mini Pai Gow in terms of house edge. The doubling with good hands rule isn't considered in that analysis though.



Quote: beachbumbabs

Re: 6 card PGP: It's distributed by SHFL/Bally. Pays were commission-free, and single-card copies were frequent, dealt with as I described. The double base bet thing, the PB said, is a casino-based bet, so I don't think it's part of the game as distributed.



Found a link that says the double-down is an official rule

Quote: ballytech.com link

Players may make a Double Down wager... the dealer must qualify with a pair of 8's or better



It would indeed seem to be the same game as Mini Pai Gow that the Wizard says is owned by 'Gaming Entertainment' [do not seem to have a website] except that the Wizard's page, as Tringlomane notes, does not mention the double-down rule. Without the double down rule, Michael's analysis has the game at a 2.64% HE. Due to the high qualifier, I think we can assume the rule whittles away at the HE but does not take it too far down.

Note on the WoO page that there is a dispute about that analysis.


https://www.ballytech.com/Table-Products/Table-Games/Specialty-Games/6-Card-Fortune-Pai-Gow-Poker
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder

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