Romes
Romes
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March 24th, 2015 at 11:52:22 AM permalink
Fun, interesting read darkoz... Do you have links to the 1st and 2nd Tale of the Hustling Wars? =p

I can think of 3 or 4 ways CET could have shot this dead in the tracks. I mean, it's really sad that they couldn't figure any of these out, and clearly I'm not going to share them to give anyone ideas.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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March 24th, 2015 at 1:44:13 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

It would not be possible to lose just $5.

Let me make it clear. I am not stating that from the LAST time you had a bonus round, you now have a certain number of spins to go. It might be 100 spins or 1000 spins. I'm just stating that when you begin to see the bonus round symbols come down with a certain frequency that the machine is "more likely" to hit than when you don't see that. And not "Guaranteed", just more likely. There seems to be some confusion with that. The 20% of the time when it doesn't work could easily wipe out any gains you made the other 80% of the time. Like I said, I have not figured out how to overcome the HE.

On those games where I find it "works", Its most likely the RNG is cycling through the bonus symbols heavier at certain times and therefore you are more likely to get all three upon a spin. Again, there are 20% of the time when the symbols keep coming down and you don't get the bonus round. Trust me, don't discount the losses you can incur on that 20%.

It doesn't matter how you determine it. number of spins or because you start to notice bonus rounds symbols are showing up more frequently.

If you can tell when the bonus rounds are "due" within 80%>> it's an advantage.<<,

Personally what I think you're experiencing is normal. you notice that you had many bonus symbols come up and during that time you received a bonus round.
Of course you did purely because you had so many shots at it. its more likely that it had to happen at that time because you had so many chances. It's purely luck that they all bunched up. It's selective memory.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
sc15
sc15
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March 24th, 2015 at 1:47:05 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

Fun, interesting read darkoz... Do you have links to the 1st and 2nd Tale of the Hustling Wars? =p

I can think of 3 or 4 ways CET could have shot this dead in the tracks. I mean, it's really sad that they couldn't figure any of these out, and clearly I'm not going to share them to give anyone ideas.



I mean, there's a lot of obvious ways, but all of them have some kind of downside. Remember, they don't want to inconvenience legitimate customers, and they're probably cheap too. Anything that involves additional staff = more costs.

For example:

Putting a sticker with a hologram on the voucher. Makes it much harder to counterfeit, but then they have to get the stickers printed, and get the bus company to put them on all the tickets.

Handing out the vouchers as people are getting off the bus, so it's impossible to get one unless you were actually on the bus. This would make unboarding the bus an extremely slow process, and would piss off bus customers who aren't getting the voucher.

Making the vouchers specific to an account, so that nobody can redeem the voucher except the person who owns the player card it was issued for. This would involve all kinds of logistics problems since their system doesn't currently support doing it this way. Sure, the smart thing to do is make people go to the player's club desk to redeem the coupon and have the play added to their player's card (like other casinos do), but CET doesn't want to invest in upgrading the system to do that.
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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March 24th, 2015 at 2:11:16 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Here is the second part of this story.

There are two methods of purchasing your Greyhound bus ticket for Atlantic City. The first is directly from the live teller window where the salesclerk will hand you a four-part serrated-edge linked-ticket printed on a heavy cardboard paper stock. You rip off each portion as you go. The departure, bus bonus for casino, return and an itinerary receipt.

You can also get all of these by purchasing your tickets at the kiosk via cash or credit card. The kiosk will print out each portion of the ticket on separate sheets of flimsy computer paper -- one side of each ticket with all the trip info printed and the other side left a shiny blank. It is this flimsy computer paper that interested an enterprising Mr. X in this hustle. The computer paper was nothing special and could be purchased at any Kinko's or Staples and the ink used to print out the info was, well, ink from a printer.

After scanning in a ticket and using photo-shop to change dates, he was pretty much off and running. He only needed to print out the bus bonus section of the ticket. He didn't care about riding the bus round trip for five hours of the day. He was going to make this enterprise a bit more profitable than that. He was simply going to go to each casino the bus arrived at, every half-hour and hand in his bus bonus. Since the greeter at all the CET properties walked every one inside the lobby to accept the bonus and hand passengers the free-play vouchers, he simply had to mosey on up to the queue and insinuate himself as if he too was a passenger disembarking from the bus.

But Mr. X wanted to not only make this extremely profitable, but also expose himself to as little danger as possible. So, he decided not to actually do this himself. After all, he was the head honcho and should not be in the line of fire. He was the magic man with the printing process. Instead, he convinced a bunch of homeless people to do the dirty work for him.

With every half-hour bus arrival at a CET property, up to 4 homeless people, that were decently presentable, would mosey on into the line and present their bogus bus bonus. They were so well printed that the greeter didn't even notice they were counterfeits and these people would walk off with the legitimate $25 free-play voucher. They would exit the casino where they would rendezvous with Mr. X who would pay them $5 for their work. At two buses an hour, these guys were making a decent ten dollar an hour wage and Mr. X was getting $200 in free-play an hour for very little investment or risk. And since these were good at both video poker and video blackjack, he managed a very decent return.

This hustle went seemingly unnoticed for most of the summer of 2013 but eventually someone saw that sales and redemption numbers were not matching. The bus bonus is not something reimbursed by Greyhound which is probably why it managed to go on for so long. Most likely, there is some accounting done for the number of Greyhound bus tickets sold within a certain time-frame and number of redeemed bus bonus vouchers. And the numbers were very incongruously not lining up.

Certain there was some type of counterfeiting scheme, the bus company instituted a new Greyhound image watermark on the back of all their computer printing paper from the kiosk. And indeed, this seemed to shut down the entire operation. The numbers began to fall back into place.

But Mr. X wasn't about to let a great opportunity go by and he was very enterprising. It took him about two months to perfectly match up the watermark and printing process for both sides of the computer paper. The paper was still the same, after all, it was only the watermark pre-printed with a certain panache from the manufacturer he had to duplicate and as most everyone knows, if it's man-made, it can be duplicated.

By November of 2013, he and his crew were back in business.

By mid-winter, Greyhound and the CET casinos were once again seeing their numbers not matching up. They decided they had to do what any law-abiding business would with counterfeiters. They called in the police. A sting was set-up where the casino security would keep an eagle's eye out for anyone slipping into the line from a newly arrived bus.

Sure enough, they saw the culprits and security sprung on them like jackals. While not everyone in the ring, (there were quite a few people who switched up when they would do the hustle by this time) nonetheless, the casino had some people to throw the book at. And they most certainly planned on making an example of these counterfeiters.

They were brought to the local precinct for booking. There a representative of the CET properties arrived to file the formal complaint and charges. The conversation with the authorities went something like this:

"They've been counterfeiting these. The bus bonus portions of the Greyhound tickets," said the casino representative.

"So, they arrive by bus? What about the actual tickets for Greyhound? You have a sample of those being counterfeited?"

"No, they don't counterfeit the tickets for riding. They don't even ride the bus," stated the casino rep, certain that NOT riding the bus made the case even more heinous.

"Well, if they aren't riding the bus, then they aren't stealing anything from the bus company. There is no theft of service from riding without a legit ticket."

"That's correct. The only thing they do is come up and get the free-play. Here is a voucher for $25. This is what they have been stealing."

The authorities examined the voucher. "This is worth $25 each? Cash?"

"No, it's not cash. It must be wagered in a slot machine. There is no way of knowing what the actual value is until played."

"So, it's basically a freebie, a complimentary that you hand out?"

Seeing where this was going, the casino rep was quick to point out, "Yes, but only qualified bus patrons are allowed to have it. Everyone else is stealing them when they acquire them."

"So, what is the stated value of the voucher?"

Now, most businesses that deal with tickets, coupons or vouchers like to protect themselves from possible scalpers. That is why coupons for a free hamburger at McDonald's might state the value of the coupon is 1/20th of a penny. Even though the free food that it buys is worth a lot more, a scalper technically cannot sell the coupon for more than what its worth.

CET was no different in this respect. But this was about to bite them on the ass.

The authorities turned over the free-play vouchers and saw quite clearly the statement printed, "This voucher has no cash value."

Everyone arrested was free to go. You cannot steal something with no value that is freely handed out.

And now, CET had a big problem on their hands. Instead of making an example of these arrested citizens, they had just shown how they could not be prosecuted. They were facing an empowered counterfeiting ring...one that was completely legal.

To be continued.



Great story, Darkoz. If you ever write a book I'll probably buy it (but I found 200 Proof Blackjack in the library. If your book is there I'm going to just check it out).

It does seem to me that individuals using the counterfeit vouchers should be charged with a crime. They were handed out freely but were only supposed to be for legitimate bus passengers. So if the vouchers said they were worth 1/20th of a cent then the counterfeiter's would be guilty of a crime but because they had no value imprinted on them it's okay to use counterfeit vouchers? I seems that knowingly using a counterfeit voucher should be illegal.

But then again it is the Evil Empire.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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March 24th, 2015 at 2:13:19 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz



On those games where I find it "works", Its most likely the RNG is cycling through the bonus symbols heavier at certain times and therefore you are more likely to get all three upon a spin. Again, there are 20% of the time when the symbols keep coming down and you don't get the bonus round. Trust me, don't discount the losses you can incur on that 20%.

So let's say you are playing however many spins maybe 100 mabey 1000 all of a sudden you notice Bonus symbols are showing up (or whatever indications you use) at that point you think you know within 80% accuracy that the bonus round is coming. At this point on average you should get into the bonus round 80% faster than the average.

For arguments sake lets assume normally it takes 400 spins on average(that can be determined). As soon as you notice the indications its coming, you should on average be able to predict its coming within 80 spins. I realize it might be within 10 spins or 300 spins however it should come up 80% faster than normal on average. This would be easy to prove.

You may not believe it to be an advantage but I do. If you can prove within my satisfaction that you can predict when a bonus round is coming/due above 79% of the normal expectation on average. Ill give you 1k for the information.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
DRich
DRich
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March 24th, 2015 at 3:25:50 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

You may not believe it to be an advantage but I do. If you can prove within my satisfaction that you can predict when a bonus round is coming/due above 79% of the normal expectation on average. Ill give you 1k for the information.



You worded that perfectly. One of his earlier posts said he could determine within 10 to 50 spins when it would come up. For $1000 I will show you slots where the bonus round will come up 80% of the time before 50 spins. I like you, I will even give you a discount, five slots for $3k.
Order from chaos
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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March 24th, 2015 at 3:54:50 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

You worded that perfectly. One of his earlier posts said he could determine within 10 to 50 spins when it would come up. For $1000 I will show you slots where the bonus round will come up 80% of the time before 50 spins. I like you, I will even give you a discount, five slots for $3k.

Yea and that offer excludes any banking or accumulator slots or a obvious situation like a guarantee bonus slot, something like a must hit that triggers a bonus round. A no weasel clause is attached. it's obvious what i'm after regarding this offer.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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March 24th, 2015 at 4:23:32 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Yea and that offer excludes any banking or accumulator slots or a obvious situation like a guarantee bonus slot, something like a must hit that triggers a bonus round. A no weasel clause is attached. it's obvious what i'm after regarding this offer.



Well, damn! and my plan was to go find a bank of those "bonus every 6 minutes or less" slots!
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Deck007
Deck007
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March 24th, 2015 at 5:08:37 PM permalink
Nice read.
Like everybody else said it is Voodoo.

My offer of 1k stands just like what Axel says,
"If you can prove within my satisfaction that you can predict when a bonus round is coming/due above 79% of the normal expectation on average. Ill give you 1k for the information. "

The other part of your claim I think requires more explanation,
"I tell people I win at the casino almost every time I play (using advantage plays of course) and almost no one ever believes me. Yet, my rent is paid, my bills are paid, my vacations are paid from gambling. I haven't worked a day in years except gambling."

How do you make so much money hustling these $25 coupon and work with a team of homeless people who has to be paid.
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
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March 24th, 2015 at 5:23:34 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I have not ridden an Asian casino bus in almost two years



Oddly specific. I like it.

At the risk of identifying myself, I like the phrase "I have never served time in a federal penitentiary."
May the cards fall in your favor.

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