darkoz
darkoz
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March 24th, 2015 at 9:59:58 AM permalink
Quote: randomperson

For the Asian bus coupons, are they anonymous too or do you have to use a card?



The Sands bus is anonymous. See "Another Tale of the Hustling Wars." All the others I believe use a players card. I never took the Asian bus to AC.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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March 24th, 2015 at 10:00:42 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz



The Lovely Outlaws are one.

So this is a IGT multi line. If you can predict within 80% accuracy when the bonus round is coming. Why not bet min bet until you believe its about to come up then bet max? I cant imagine this wouldn't be a huge advantage.


Assuming you have never went x amount of spins without a bonus round lets say 300.

You could ramp your bet up as soon as you believe its "due" go from min bet to $1 at spin @ # 225 then $2 @ # $250 max @ $275

This would be the slot holy grail.

but even if you find a reason that doesn't work, you could just stalk people playing watch and one the leave and it's "due" you jump on.

NVM all this FP that's a wast of time concerning the bonus rounds at max bet are very valuable.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
bobsims
bobsims
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March 24th, 2015 at 10:18:44 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Here is the second part of this story.

There are two methods of purchasing your Greyhound bus ticket for Atlantic City. The first is directly from the live teller window where the salesclerk will hand you a four-part serrated-edge linked-ticket printed on a heavy cardboard paper stock. You rip off each portion as you go. The departure, bus bonus for casino, return and an itinerary receipt.

You can also get all of these by purchasing your tickets at the kiosk via cash or credit card. The kiosk will print out each portion of the ticket on separate sheets of flimsy computer paper -- one side of each ticket with all the trip info printed and the other side left a shiny blank. It is this flimsy computer paper that interested an enterprising Mr. X in this hustle. The computer paper was nothing special and could be purchased at any Kinko's or Staples and the ink used to print out the info was, well, ink from a printer.

After scanning in a ticket and using photo-shop to change dates, he was pretty much off and running. He only needed to print out the bus bonus section of the ticket. He didn't care about riding the bus round trip for five hours of the day. He was going to make this enterprise a bit more profitable than that. He was simply going to go to each casino the bus arrived at, every half-hour and hand in his bus bonus. Since the greeter at all the CET properties walked every one inside the lobby to accept the bonus and hand passengers the free-play vouchers, he simply had to mosey on up to the queue and insinuate himself as if he too was a passenger disembarking from the bus.

But Mr. X wanted to not only make this extremely profitable, but also expose himself to as little danger as possible. So, he decided not to actually do this himself. After all, he was the head honcho and should not be in the line of fire. He was the magic man with the printing process. Instead, he convinced a bunch of homeless people to do the dirty work for him.

With every half-hour bus arrival at a CET property, up to 4 homeless people, that were decently presentable, would mosey on into the line and present their bogus bus bonus. They were so well printed that the greeter didn't even notice they were counterfeits and these people would walk off with the legitimate $25 free-play voucher. They would exit the casino where they would rendezvous with Mr. X who would pay them $5 for their work. At two buses an hour, these guys were making a decent ten dollar an hour wage and Mr. X was getting $200 in free-play an hour for very little investment or risk. And since these were good at both video poker and video blackjack, he managed a very decent return.

This hustle went seemingly unnoticed for most of the summer of 2013 but eventually someone saw that sales and redemption numbers were not matching. The bus bonus is not something reimbursed by Greyhound which is probably why it managed to go on for so long. Most likely, there is some accounting done for the number of Greyhound bus tickets sold within a certain time-frame and number of redeemed bus bonus vouchers. And the numbers were very incongruously not lining up.

Certain there was some type of counterfeiting scheme, the bus company instituted a new Greyhound image watermark on the back of all their computer printing paper from the kiosk. And indeed, this seemed to shut down the entire operation. The numbers began to fall back into place.

But Mr. X wasn't about to let a great opportunity go by and he was very enterprising. It took him about two months to perfectly match up the watermark and printing process for both sides of the computer paper. The paper was still the same, after all, it was only the watermark pre-printed with a certain panache from the manufacturer he had to duplicate and as most everyone knows, if it's man-made, it can be duplicated.

By November of 2013, he and his crew were back in business.

By mid-winter, Greyhound and the CET casinos were once again seeing their numbers not matching up. They decided they had to do what any law-abiding business would with counterfeiters. They called in the police. A sting was set-up where the casino security would keep an eagle's eye out for anyone slipping into the line from a newly arrived bus.

Sure enough, they saw the culprits and security sprung on them like jackals. While not everyone in the ring, (there were quite a few people who switched up when they would do the hustle by this time) nonetheless, the casino had some people to throw the book at. And they most certainly planned on making an example of these counterfeiters.

They were brought to the local precinct for booking. There a representative of the CET properties arrived to file the formal complaint and charges. The conversation with the authorities went something like this:

"They've been counterfeiting these. The bus bonus portions of the Greyhound tickets," said the casino representative.

"So, they arrive by bus? What about the actual tickets for Greyhound? You have a sample of those being counterfeited?"

"No, they don't counterfeit the tickets for riding. They don't even ride the bus," stated the casino rep, certain that NOT riding the bus made the case even more heinous.

"Well, if they aren't riding the bus, then they aren't stealing anything from the bus company. There is no theft of service from riding without a legit ticket."

"That's correct. The only thing they do is come up and get the free-play. Here is a voucher for $25. This is what they have been stealing."

The authorities examined the voucher. "This is worth $25 each? Cash?"

"No, it's not cash. It must be wagered in a slot machine. There is no way of knowing what the actual value is until played."

"So, it's basically a freebie, a complimentary that you hand out?"

Seeing where this was going, the casino rep was quick to point out, "Yes, but only qualified bus patrons are allowed to have it. Everyone else is stealing them when they acquire them."

"So, what is the stated value of the voucher?"

Now, most businesses that deal with tickets, coupons or vouchers like to protect themselves from possible scalpers. That is why coupons for a free hamburger at McDonald's might state the value of the coupon is 1/20th of a penny. Even though the free food that it buys is worth a lot more, a scalper technically cannot sell the coupon for more than what its worth.

CET was no different in this respect. But this was about to bite them on the ass.

The authorities turned over the free-play vouchers and saw quite clearly the statement printed, "This voucher has no cash value."

Everyone arrested was free to go. You cannot steal something with no value that is freely handed out.

And now, CET had a big problem on their hands. Instead of making an example of these arrested citizens, they had just shown how they could not be prosecuted. They were facing an empowered counterfeiting ring...one that was completely legal.

To be continued.



Pure sloth on the part of the casinos. Part of the greeter's job is to make sure the bonus is paid out, one or 2 at a time, only to those who exit from the bus.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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March 24th, 2015 at 10:20:39 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

So this is a IGT multi line. If you can predict within 80% accuracy when the bonus round is coming. Why not bet min bet until you believe its about to come up then bet max? I cant imagine this wouldn't be a huge advantage.


Assuming you have never went x amount of spins without a bonus round lets say 300.

You could ramp your bet up as soon as you believe its "due" go from min bet to $1 at spin @ # 225 then $2 @ # $250 max @ $275

This would be the slot holy grail.

but even if you find a reason that doesn't work, you could just stalk people playing watch and one the leave and it's "due" you jump on.

NVM all this FP that's a wast of time concerning the bonus rounds at max bet are very valuable.



I have done that and won some money but as I stated, having a feel for when the bonus round is about to hit does not overcome HE so no, its not a holy grail.

The bonus round itself is not guaranteed to be big. On Lovely Outlaws I have won anywhere from $15 to $400 on max bet. So losing $300 to win $15 on the bonus round is not an advantage play.

I cannot predict when they will hit. Only they are close or due. There is no set number of spins when its guaranteed. I have a pretty good idea when they will not happen because the predictors on those machines aren't happening.

Stalking people doesn't work because you never know if they will leave while the machine is hot. What if the guy never gets up when you need it? I find that a stupid maneuver.

At any rate, you asked for the names of some machines. Why don't you go play them day in and day out for a few weeks and then relate your experience to mine. Otherwise, don't knock what you have not tried.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
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March 24th, 2015 at 10:48:34 AM permalink
Here's the conclusion.

CET had to be careful now not to open themselves up to a lawsuit for imprisonment as nothing illegal was being done with the counterfeit bus tickets. On top of that, the tickets were not being redeemed by the same four people. It was obvious quite a few people were being employed now in the scheme since seeing the same faces over and over might have tipped off the greeters.

Since it was the kiosk printed tickets that were the disadvantage, the greeters began asking to see the entire tickets when presented with kiosk slips. Those people who could not present the return ticket and itinerary portion of their ticket were denied their bus bonus.

But this inconvenience only lasted a short time. Those were printed on the same computer paper and it wasn't long before Mr. X began supplying those as well. Since they were not to be used for any actual bus travel, there still was no theft or crime being committed.

Seeing that this was still not enough to curb the counterfeiters, CET asked the bus drivers to begin placing markers on the bus bonus portions of the tickets. On a daily rotating basis, the drivers would switch from placing a generic sticker on the bus bonus to stamping the word "Paid" on the bus bonus as people were boarding the bus. If you didn't have this stamp or sticker when you went to the greeter, they knew you had not boarded the bus in New York.

Luckily for Mr. X we live in a technological world. He started paying someone to ride the bus each morning to find out what the days marker would be. After boarding the bus, this confederate would take a snapshot of the marker and text message the picture to Mr. X. He now had over two hours to prepare his tickets to match before the first bus would arrive.

By the Fall of 2014, the hustle was still in full swing and CET was getting pretty annoyed at how obnoxious the whole thing was. They needed to nip this in the bus (pun intended).

In the end, it was good old due diligence, a combination of checks and balances and the tried and true method of trespassing individuals that seemed to end the entire hustle.

Bus drivers were asked to take head counts of their passengers for the greeter. Also, they were requested to scan passengers faces upon boarding and especially as they were disembarking and to watch as the free-play vouchers were being redeemed. If the bus driver was certain you were not on the bus they would state that to the greeter and that person would be denied their bus bonus. (This also worked to the advantage of a few people who accidentally got off the bus too early as I witnessed the driver vouching for the person having been on the bus).

The full tickets needed to be shown upon request and security would also keep a lookout for people sneaking into the line.

Eventually, faces were identified and those people were verbally trespassed. Reports were made of those verbal trespasses and when people returned, they were taken in and arrested for that in lieu of the actual counterfeiting.

And as it became less and less profitable and less and less people were walking away with the vouchers, it all came to an end and Mr. X seemingly disappeared like a wisp of smoke.

But perhaps the hustle will reappear. It was just two weeks ago that I overheard someone being denied their bus bonus by the greeter as I left Bally's. "You were not on THIS bus, I guarantee you, my friend," was what the greeter told the guy who finally gave up and left the casino with his head down.

Thus ends this 3rd Tale of the Hustling Wars
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
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March 24th, 2015 at 11:01:35 AM permalink
Authors Declaration:

Many of you may surmise I was mister X. That is the furthest from the truth.

As many of you who read my posts know, I am proud of my hustles and will vociferously argue in their defense. Counterfeiting is not a hustle I would stoop low enough to perform.

I first became aware of this hustle in November of 2013 when an associate of mine who was involved lamented he had lost two months of work because of the Greyhound Watermark. However, his "guy" had figured out how to duplicate it and the team was back in business. It was he who told me he was being paid $5 per voucher.

Most passengers, I am sure, were oblivious to the goings-on but as I was aware of the hustle, it was painfully obvious when I saw it in action which was pretty much every time I came to AC by Greyhound in 2014.

I witnessed a group of these people one afternoon leave Bally's and meet someone on the street corner right outside where they handed him the vouchers. He nodded and I assume paid them. I also assume this was the Mister X although I could be wrong. There isn't much room for a middleman in a hustle with such a small edge.

I saw many of the countermeasures as they were enacted including the bus drivers shaking their heads at the greeter and stating loudly, "Not him. He wasn't on my bus." Some drivers took more offense at the hustle than CET, yelling at those people to get off their bus line, they don't play that.

Finally, it was a CET greeter who informed me of the arrests that had been made and how no charges could stick due to the nature of the free-play having no cash value. The actual conversation at the police precinct (and even if it happened there or over the phone) was my embellishment to relay what the CET greeter had told me.

It was CET greeters who informed me of the trespassing and final eradication of the problem.

I hope you enjoyed this latest escapade in the Hustling Wars.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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March 24th, 2015 at 11:05:35 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I have done that and won some money but as I stated, having a feel for when the bonus round is about to hit does not overcome HE so no, its not a holy grail.

The bonus round itself is not guaranteed to be big. On Lovely Outlaws I have won anywhere from $15 to $400 on max bet. So losing $300 to win $15 on the bonus round is not an advantage play.

I cannot predict when they will hit. Only they are close or due. There is no set number of spins when its guaranteed. I have a pretty good idea when they will not happen because the predictors on those machines aren't happening.

Stalking people doesn't work because you never know if they will leave while the machine is hot. What if the guy never gets up when you need it? I find that a stupid maneuver.

At any rate, you asked for the names of some machines. Why don't you go play them day in and day out for a few weeks and then relate your experience to mine. Otherwise, don't knock what you have not tried.

Can you quote the sentence where I knocked it?

I'm sure someone can come up with some estimations on what having the ability to predict bonus rounds within 80% accuracy is worth. I'm willing to bet it's a huge advantage.

Yes losing $300 to win $15 every time isn't good, however what about the times you only lose $5 to win $400?

Either you can predict within 80% and its +EV, Or you can't predict it as you claim.



Perhaps a par sheet is available and we can figure out how many spins on average the bonus round comes up. It should also tell you what percentage the bonus round adds and what the overall machine percentage possibilities are available.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
darkoz
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March 24th, 2015 at 11:12:13 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Can you quote the sentence where I knocked it?

I'm sure someone can come up with some estimations on what having the ability to predict bonus rounds within 80% accuracy is worth. I'm willing to bet it's a huge advantage.

Yes losing $300 to win $15 every time isn't good, however what about the times you only lose $5 to win $400?

Either you can predict within 80% and its +EV, Or you can't predict it as you claim.



Perhaps a par sheet is available and we can figure out how many spins on average the bonus round comes up. It should also tell you what percentage the bonus round adds and what the overall machine percentage possibilities are available.



It would not be possible to lose just $5.

Let me make it clear. I am not stating that from the LAST time you had a bonus round, you now have a certain number of spins to go. It might be 100 spins or 1000 spins. I'm just stating that when you begin to see the bonus round symbols come down with a certain frequency that the machine is "more likely" to hit than when you don't see that. And not "Guaranteed", just more likely. There seems to be some confusion with that. The 20% of the time when it doesn't work could easily wipe out any gains you made the other 80% of the time. Like I said, I have not figured out how to overcome the HE.

On those games where I find it "works", Its most likely the RNG is cycling through the bonus symbols heavier at certain times and therefore you are more likely to get all three upon a spin. Again, there are 20% of the time when the symbols keep coming down and you don't get the bonus round. Trust me, don't discount the losses you can incur on that 20%.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
sc15
sc15
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March 24th, 2015 at 11:21:47 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

It would not be possible to lose just $5.

Let me make it clear. I am not stating that from the LAST time you had a bonus round, you now have a certain number of spins to go. It might be 100 spins or 1000 spins. I'm just stating that when you begin to see the bonus round symbols come down with a certain frequency that the machine is "more likely" to hit than when you don't see that. And not "Guaranteed", just more likely. There seems to be some confusion with that. The 20% of the time when it doesn't work could easily wipe out any gains you made the other 80% of the time. Like I said, I have not figured out how to overcome the HE.

On those games where I find it "works", Its most likely the RNG is cycling through the bonus symbols heavier at certain times and therefore you are more likely to get all three upon a spin. Again, there are 20% of the time when the symbols keep coming down and you don't get the bonus round. Trust me, don't discount the losses you can incur on that 20%.



This is exactly what slot machine makers want suckers to think so they keep playing, lol...
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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March 24th, 2015 at 11:26:10 AM permalink
Quote: sc15

This is exactly what slot machine makers want suckers to think so they keep playing, lol...



Which part is that? The part where I state you still cannot overcome the HE?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

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