darkoz
darkoz
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February 15th, 2015 at 6:49:28 AM permalink
I've used it in the context of discussing my case and how I was being represented. I would state Bob was representing me pro bono.

I've heard the term a gazillion times by people who couldn't afford attorney fees and I guess I connected that with this situation - that anytime the attorney took on a case and he wasn't getting paid by the client, he was working pro bono.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who makes that mistake because when I looked it up last night, the article heading was "What is the Difference between Pro Bono and Contingency?"
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Frogger
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February 15th, 2015 at 7:01:09 AM permalink
I think the pro bono term is used when there is no potential financial gain (or just trying to recoup funds stolen from him) for the defendant.
darkoz
darkoz
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February 15th, 2015 at 7:11:26 AM permalink
Well, anyway, before I hijack my own thread...

Bob is defending me in my imprisonment suit after I got caught with multiple cards on the gaming floor. He is working on contingency.

I was not caught card flipping. I was doing something different but in a strange case of crap happens the casino was under the impression I was a card flipper.

I had not card flipped in almost a year at that point.

Even when they brought me down to the back room I understood they had no clue what I had been actually doing. Unfortunately, what I was doing did involve multiple cards so they had me dead to rights on that aspect and I was banned.

This Tale of the Hustling Wars is just part of what I've witnessed in the last three years at the casinos by AP's.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Dieter
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Dieter
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February 15th, 2015 at 8:49:09 AM permalink
Quote: Deck007

That brings me to question whether the class 3 traditional casino is an outdated model in the US. Most casinos in the US are basically slot parlours.



If it's not a tribal casino, it's not Class 1, Class 2 or Class 3. Those are definitions from the IGRA.

In the context of a slot parlour, no matter what size, there is still a difference between "Class 2" and "Class 3" - it's how the outcome is determined. In Class 3 (traditional slots), it's you vs the machine (and whatever random determination it makes). In Class 2 (bingo slots), it's you and a pool of other players against a central machine (and whatever random determination it makes).

VLTs aren't quite the same as bingo slots, but some operate similarly, and some operate differently. It depends on the jurisdiction.



TL;DR: Class 3 doesn't imply table games.
May the cards fall in your favor.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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February 15th, 2015 at 9:05:55 AM permalink
In my understanding, pro bono is usually attached to a criminal suit against a defendant who doesn't have the money to pay an attorney. The city/county/district's public defender's office will take the case, but they're often overworked. If a case has publicity angles or is likely to set a legal precedent, an attorney in private practice may well step in and offer, expecting non-tangible benefits or eventual but indirect profits. Many state bars also require criminal attorneys or their firms to take on a certain number of pro bono cases as part of civic duty, especially if the public defender's office is chronically overwhelmed. Usually the accused is facing a jail sentence or fine they can't pay, and there is no monetary award against the prosecution if the defendant goes free, so the pro bono attorney is either not getting paid at all, or possibly getting a small set fee from the court that will likely not cover the cost of the defense.

In civil court, there's a plaintiff and a defendant, and either or both might have money. Civil attorneys can work on contingency from either side, and are hoping for money either by settlement or by judgment. While either plaintiff or defendant might be a public entity with staff attorneys, usually court costs (including the prevailing party's attorney fees) are part of the lawsuit. There are lots of lawsuits that are very pursuable, but if the plaintiff (you in this case) can't find an attorney who will take the risk of working for you for free and take a percentage from a win (a contingency deal - in civil court, a win usually means a financial judgment against the loser), and you don't have the money up front to retain someone, you may just drop the idea of the lawsuit.

These lawyers will also find more than one defendant, both to group a bunch of small amount awards into 1 big one for a single work effort in a particular district and/or against a single defendant, and to strengthen their case by showing a habitual plaintiff or multiple offenses. If the group appears big enough, the attorneys will file a Class Action lawsuit, where one attorney or firm represents hundreds or thousands of defendants who all suffered a common complaint or injustice, and get an amount multiplied by the number of plaintiffs, with the lawyers getting a percentage of that gross. Once the court accepts the validity of the Class Action, the lawyers will go out and look for more defendants (you see these ads all the time...ie "Have you ever been diagnosed with mesothelioma or had a loved one suffering or deceased from it? Call this 800 number to see if you qualify...") so the judgment is as big an amount as possible.

A lot of times, a failed criminal prosecution will be followed by civil suits, trying to recover something from the defendant, or the defendant suing for damages due to the process of proving their innocence. OJ Simpson's situation, and Casey Anthony, are two of the more famous double trials. Sometimes those civil suits include fees incurred during the criminal process.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Kerkebet
Kerkebet
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February 15th, 2015 at 10:07:18 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

In my understanding, pro bono is usually attached to a criminal suit against a defendant who doesn't have the money to pay an attorney.


Pro bono is done w/o charge or pay. The implications are limitless.

Quote: beachbumbabs

A lot of times, a failed criminal prosecution will be followed by civil suits.


Do the civil first when it's complicated or drawn out, as in racqueteering.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Sometimes those civil suits include fees incurred during the criminal process.


Who initiates the criminal process?
Nonsense is a very hard thing to keep up. Just ask the Wizard and company.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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February 15th, 2015 at 10:18:00 AM permalink
Quote: Kerkebet

Pro bono is done w/o charge or pay. The implications are limitless.



I agree: any court proceeding or legal action can be pro bono. But in a practical sense, it's for penniless defendants in criminal court, or legal aid societies trying to help poor people.



Quote: Kerkebet

Who initiates the criminal process?



Usually a public entity, like city/county/state/federal jurisdictions, against a person who has committed a crime for which there is a law on the books. If the family is suing someone for murdering their family member, for example, they would have to address it in civil court unless the prosecuting office that has jurisdiction over any laws broken is willing to prosecute the case. But the family can pursue a civil case even if the defendant is found innocent on the criminal charges. They just have to find a lawyer who's willing to take the case, or in rare cases (exception; small claims court, which is what Judge Judy and the others preside over, it's usually people representing themselves, but you can hire an attorney to represent you there) represent themselves. It's also common to represent yourself at traffic court, which is a criminal proceeding (you've allegedly broken some law), but you're foolish if you do it for more serious traffic offenses (like DUI), let alone any other criminal trial.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
DWSH
DWSH
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February 15th, 2015 at 2:46:59 PM permalink
Pro bono publico (English: for the public good; usually shortened to pro bono) is a Latin phrase for professional work undertaken voluntarily and without payment or at a reduced fee as a public service.

It's not just lawyers who do this I know all sorts -- dentists, doctors, and yes, lawyers, who work for free because it's the right thing to do.
bobsims
bobsims
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February 15th, 2015 at 6:20:53 PM permalink
Quote: Deck007

Ah! 50 points for $25 dollars in freeplay. Good Luck. It is not for me.



At about $20 profit for every non-gambling relative, friend or bustout/homeless you can bribe to get a card it is for a whole lot of people.
Definitely won't last though. This reminds of the Westin's "play $300, get $300 in free play" that I made 6 figures on.
Kerkebet
Kerkebet
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February 18th, 2015 at 12:19:17 PM permalink
Quote: Kerkebet

Who initiates the criminal process?


I asked to clarify that it's not you. In which case, people like OJ can dream on if they want to sue the state/feds for malicious prosecution to recover their dream teams' costs.

I slept on a lot of what you wrote, but I can't seriously make heads or tails of it. I've had a lot of personal involvement in the civil side, and enough of the other sides thereby, to realize that whatever you're trying for here isn't so simple.

I'm surprised that none of the lawyers here had anything to add in general.
Nonsense is a very hard thing to keep up. Just ask the Wizard and company.

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