Do Native American casino's have to abide by the same laws as non-Native US casinos?

Quote: scubatim84

Ok, so if I'm understanding this correctly, then a casino which is ran by a tribe listed on the compact list at http://www.cgcc.ca.gov/?pageID=compacts is a class III facility. Accordingly, the machines (unless they indicate "Bingo" prominently on the machine) are going to be identical to Nevada machines in the sense that say 9/6 JoB will actually pay out the theoretical return of 99.54% over the long term. Correct?

Correct, most VP in California is Class III thanks to the numerous compacts and behaves like Vegas casinos.

Re JB post: Pretty sick that they create ridiculous near misses on a lot of games. The Class II racino I played at in Alabama didn't seem that way. Ironically that was also where my first "slot jackpot" was. I hit 5 Texas Teas for $200 at 2c per line (9 lines bet). If you looked in the help screen though, the game told you all the bingo combinations that created the wins. I covered 22 spots in like 48 calls or something. Anyone with the programming skill and inclination could determine the overall return of the machine.

Re Mission post: "Genies" don't always exist, other gimmicks like a bonus "match card" can exist.

Quote: JB

This is just a guess, but I think the way bigger wins are handled (such as a royal flush on the machines that resemble video poker) is by having behind-the-scenes progressive jackpots for getting certain patterns within a certain number of calls, like a Double Hardway in 14 calls or something like that. For a slots-like machine, this might be presented as "spinning" an outcome which awards a bonus round, and having the bonus round (whether it is presented as free spins, a pick bonus, a wheel bonus, etc.) award a total amount which equals however much the secret jackpot you won was worth.

Depends on the manufacturer. That (almost) sounds like the VGT & MultiMedia ways. (It's not usually so simple as "double hardway", but a specific complex pattern - like "Champagne Glass", with varying pay amounts for covering the pattern in 24, 36, or 45 balls called (for example).) Center square is not free.

Cadillac Jack machines generally seem to draw all the balls, then daub the first (25, 30, 35...) balls drawn onto the card. Center square is not free. After the card is daubed, it is compared to the list of complex patterns, and the highest prize is awarded. (Not sure about quorum requirements with their setup, but it would seem that this system runs on a quorum of 1 player.)

Bally machines definitely do have a quorum. Game is drawn until the one or more players achieve a straight-line bingo. Paytable is based on multiplying the draw position of the SLB constituent balls together, then the payour amount for that product is awarded. (So, if your straight-line-bingo was daubed because of the 3rd, 7th, 16th, and 23rd balls drawn (plus the free square), the product is 3*7*16*23=7728. 7728 is looked up on the paytable, that prize is awarded.) There is often a separate progressive for "4 corners in 4 balls" - awarded if the first 4 balls drawn cover the 4 corner spaces. (I haven't looked enough at the rules to determine if this ends the game for the pool or not.)

The entertainment portion of the game varies according to theme. On some machines, "bonus rounds" are merely creative ways to display a predetermined win. On others, the bonus has an independent prize award (on a different pay schedule than the main game) for each round.

Some manufacturers change the bingo card for every game, some only change it by player request.

"It's complicated" may be an understatement.

Quote: JB

Class II games have zero risk for the house because prizes are only awarded after wagers have been placed, and are always less than 100% of the total amount wagered

From what I've seen, I doubt that. Consider a hypothetical Class II game, with 10 people in a typical pool. Suppose each bets $1. Suppose 95% return. We would see a lot of $9.50 wins, $4.75 wins (ties), and $0 wins (losses). What I typically observe on a $1 wager occasional (5%) wins >$1, a fair number (20-30%) of wins at $1, a large number (30-60%) of small wins (<$1, including $0). Progressives would seem to have a real problem in that case, too, and I do know that there are Class II progressives.

From a "video poker" standpoint, it may well be that the 4000:1 payout is based on a bingo pattern that has approximately a 1:40000 chance of hitting, or a 40000 pull-tab pool with 1 4000:1 prize. I haven't had a chance to look at one, so I can't confirm.

Quote: Dieter

a large number (30-60%) of small wins (<$1, including $0).

I should also note that some of these machines clearly indicate when a game has resulted in a tie. We would expect that the less-than-wagered-amount awards would all be ties. This is not the case; many less-than-wagered-amount awards are presented without indicating a tie outcome (on machines that indicate a tie).

Quote: scubatim84

Ok, so if I'm understanding this correctly, then a casino which is ran by a tribe listed on the compact list at http://www.cgcc.ca.gov/?pageID=compacts is a class III facility. Accordingly, the machines (unless they indicate "Bingo" prominently on the machine) are going to be identical to Nevada machines in the sense that say 9/6 JoB will actually pay out the theoretical return of 99.54% over the long term. Correct?

It has been my experience that Tribal casinos which, in the past, had class II gaming for whatever reason, then upgraded to class III at some point, still salt their class II machines right in with the class III's, and the machines must be carefully checked to see which they are. So I would use caution before putting money into any machine there. I personally refuse to play slots at those I know are doing that; I think it's dishonest of them, sort of a bait-and-switch, because most of those machines closely resemble their class III cousins.

I just went into my first class II Indian casino. It was a small room off a gas station. Maybe 400 square feet. Four people in there playing. 18-year-old minimum. Saw the bingo images for the first time. Spoke to the female security officer and asked if they'd had any big wins lately. She showed me a chalk board with $12,500 written on it. Said it was on a game called Big Red. Tempted to waste a $1 with four 25 cent plays. What is it about action?

Quote: beachbumbabs

It has been my experience that Tribal casinos which, in the past, had class II gaming for whatever reason, then upgraded to class III at some point, still salt their class II machines right in with the class III's

This has not generally been my experience. I've seen it once, while a place was remodeling - they wanted the machines available, but had limited floor space.

I believe the place I'm thinking of still offers both Class II and Class III slots, but the Class II slots are in the bingo hall area, and allow 18+ to play. The Class III machines are all in the "main casino", and require 21+.