What's Wrong with You People!?
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http://www.wtrf.com/story/23397504/luxury-pa-casino-employees-out-of-luck
It appears that the Revel isn't the only, "Resort," casino in recent history to open and royally irritate the gamblers. The Lady Luck Casino in Nemacolin opened two months ago and is now laying off 15% of its employees due to slower than expected traffic.
Perhaps Nemacolin should engage in a, "Gamblers Wanted," campaign. In order to play at this casino, one must be a hotel guest, eat at the restaurant, or purchase a $10 Gift Card for the resort.
The irony of this situation is that this casino is run by Isle of Capri casinos, so you would think that an experienced group such as Isle of Capri could look at examples such as the Revel (until recently) and see that you don't want to do anything to dissuade gamblers from gambling at your establishment.
In my opinion, the lesson here is that: If you want to be a casino, you need to be a casino before you are anything else. You can be a casino that happens to be located in a resort, you can be a casino that has a hotel, a casino that has restaurants, but you need to BE A CASINO FIRST!!!
Virtually every gambler realizes, to varying degrees of specificity, that the odds are against him: you can't pay for the electric and staffing for slot machines and Table Games that are not, on the whole, separating people from their money. However, barriers to entry will simply not work, why would you make a potential gambler at your establishment jump through hoops to play a losing game, further, how many gamblers are going to be willing to jump through these hoops to play losing games?
The answer is apparently about 15% fewer than Lady Luck expected.
Quote: BozNot sure about the laws there but Valley Forge operates the same due to state law. However they have become creative in findings ways to get people in the door and are a success.
I understand that, but it's really easy to mitigate. If I'm not mistaken, Valley Forge charges a, "Membership fee," but then turns around and gives the same amount in Free Play, is that not accurate? Lady Luck could do the same thing, give the amount in Free Play, or for a Table Player, give a Free Bet ticket. That way it's just the money the person would be gambling anyway. Making people buy a Gift Card that they don't want is stupid.
1. it's impossible to buy a meal at the food court for less than $10, and almost all meals there are also less than $15.
2. If you pay the $10 entry fee, you get a $10 certificate. That's handy if you want high-end food or something from the gift shop instead of a food court meal.
3. There are quarterly and annual memberships available. I don't know the give-back on the quarterly membership, but my annual membership came with either a free meal at any restaurant or a free show ticket. I took the Dining Membership option.
4. Attend an on-site conference
5. Stay in the hotel
6. Pay a single patron less than $10 to be their "guest."
I think the issue is more pronounced here, since Valley Forge is a moderately priced and older hotel and convention center and this is a more expensive and exclusive resort in a less urban setting.
Quote: rdw4potusValley Forge handles this in a number of ways:
1. it's impossible to buy a meal at the food court for less than $10, and almost all meals there are also less than $15.
2. If you pay the $10 entry fee, you get a $10 certificate. That's handy if you want high-end food or something from the gift shop instead of a food court meal.
3. There are quarterly and annual memberships available. I don't know the give-back on the quarterly membership, but my annual membership came with either a free meal at any restaurant or a free show ticket. I took the Dining Membership option.
4. Attend an on-site conference
5. Stay in the hotel
6. Pay a single patron less than $10 to be their "guest."
I think the issue is more pronounced here, since Valley Forge is a moderately priced and older hotel and convention center and this is a more expensive and exclusive resort in a less urban setting.
All of this makes sense, and I actually just looked on-line, and new Valley Forge card Members are currently receiving $25 Free Play immediately. In this case, paying for the membership (and using the Free Play) is +EV in and of itself if that is all the player is going to do.
I called for further details, and for a, "24 Hour Pass," you must purchase a $10 gift card, and that gives you access for 24 hours and can be used on food or beverage. You'd also get the $25 immediate Free Play, so you actually are at +EV, but you have to use the Gift Card for something there. Assuming a 90% ER on the slot machine, you'd be looking at an ER of $22.50, cash, plus you'd still have the gift card.
Part of this promotion is also $75 more Free Play (on separate dates and in $25 increments) if the player plays 30 minutes of rated slot play. This doesn't really work with the Gift Card because you only get 24 hours access, so you'd have to buy the Gift Card every single time. However, you can get a 90-day Membership for $20, which would get you the $25 Free Play. I called Valley Forge and there is no minimum amount for the extra $75 Free Play, you just have to play for thirty minutes on certain machines, so you could slow play the Hell out of it if you wanted to.
In the latter case, you would lose the $20 for having purchased the Membership for +ER on the Free Play of +$2.50 ER. You'd also have the expected loss on playing th machine for a half hour, and I'm unsure how egregiously you could slow play and still have it register your play, I also don't know the minimum bet on the cheapest machine you could play. However, the ER of the additional $25 Free Play each of the three subsequent visits is also $22.50 or $67.50, combined plus the $2.50 +ER on the initial, less the expected loss on the half hour. I'd conservatively estimate that you'd probably be about +$50.00 in overall +ER if the only money you gamble of your own is to meet the half hour.
Alternatively, you could just buy the Gift Card each time and get the 24 hours access each time. In this case, even if you look at the $10 as lost money, you still have +ER of $12.50 on the initial play, less the expected loss for the half hour of play. You would then have the three subsequent $25 Free Play with an EV of $12.50 after you but the additional Gift Card each time. Your +ER for the overall play is probably about $40.00, or so, if you look at the Gift Card as lost money...and then therefore worse than the 90-day membership. If you don't look at the Gift Cards as lost money, then your +ER is $22.50 * 4 for $90 less the -ER of actually playing for that half hour...let's call it about $80.00, or so.
Depending on whether you consider the Gift Cards, "Lost money," is whichever the better option will be.
You can also purchase the annual membership for $59, which gets you a free dinner at any of their, "Top end," restaurants. You'd get the $25 Free Play with an ER of $22.50, less the expected loss on that half hour. Again, you're looking at $80 (or so) overall, but the fixed loss of $59, so about $20.00 if +ER. The exception would be if you considered the free dinner worth anything, which I don't, then $20.00 + whatever you consider the free dinner to be worth.
The annual membership could also have more value if you plan on doing anything there besides this one promotion for any period greater than 90 days, but I don't know why you would...
Quote: Mission146
In my opinion, the lesson here is that: If you want to be a casino, you need to be a casino before you are anything else. You can be a casino that happens to be located in a resort, you can be a casino that has a hotel, a casino that has restaurants, but you need to BE A CASINO FIRST!!!
IMHO it comes down to more than this. Location, location, location.
For those who do not know, Nemacolin Woodlands sits southeast of Uniontown, PA. The road that fronts it is the oldest US Highway in existence. Down the road is Fort Necessity, used during the French and Indian War (Seven Years War to our international readers.) The road is still two lanes, and there is next to nothing commercial or residential anywhere nearby. During summer this is one of those extremely dark roads. During winter it is also snowy as it sits on top of a mountain. The mountain road down is 4 lanes, but it is steep and winding enough that the speed limit for trucks and buses is 10 mph. The City of Uniontown is the closest population center, with 10,000 people with 130,000 in the county. Put another way, at any given time there may be more adults in Caesars Palace than within 20 miles of this place.
The resort is very upscale, but it is also very much a "conference center" as well as event driven. It is owned by the same family who owns "84 Lumber." During the week it can have a very, very "empty" feeling. It can pull guests from Pittsburgh as well as DC and Baltimore to a lesser extent. There are neat things there, however. A section of Berlin Wall for one. And two white tigers! Cheap it ain't, though.
But few people from Pittsburgh are going to go there more than once, and if they do they are not going to go in winter. I have to guess BAL and DC residents will have even less reason to day-trip. Even at the resort it is on the edge, near the main highway but not in the heart of things. The resort is hundreds of acres. If you are there to golf or ski you cannot just drop in. Some people will just figure they should forget it.
As a side note I work parties there many times a year. There has always been debate how this would affect our business. Would the "real thing" mean the end of the "fun nights?" Or would it whet the appetite and be good for us? Jury is still out. But I am glad we are in PA and not WV or we would possibly be out by law.
Quote: Mission146In order to play at this casino, one must be a hotel guest,
The Ritz casino, in the Ritz hotel in London, is like that.
To enter the casino you must be a member, the guest
of a member, or a guest at the hotel. But it is, well, the Ritz,
so there is that..
I think what you have said presents a really interesting dynamic for Lady Luck. It seems that they are going to need to maximize their locals traffic in order to maximize revenue, but that almost takes away from the resort aspect! Just speaking for me, the hotel I manage has a bar downstairs, and I do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to encourage any locals traffic! Our goal for the bar is merely that it break even, it's just a courtesy for the guests, mainly.
However, locals casinos have succeeded and propsered in even smaller environments. For example, look at all those parlors in West Virginia which are limited to five machines! The only source of revenue for those parlors is the five machines and buck beers! Can you imagine that? Five machines with the State taking a huge chunk of the profits, free coffee, pop and cappuccino, employee expenses, machine rental fees and furnishings all against the House Edge of those five machines? And yet many of them profit!!!
Quote: BuzzardAre the crackers free at that casino ?
Probably, if you can stay on your feet in the 3" plush carpet.
Quote: Mission146AZ,
I think what you have said presents a really interesting dynamic for Lady Luck. It seems that they are going to need to maximize their locals traffic in order to maximize revenue, but that almost takes away from the resort aspect! Just speaking for me, the hotel I manage has a bar downstairs, and I do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to encourage any locals traffic! Our goal for the bar is merely that it break even, it's just a courtesy for the guests, mainly.
Hotel bars are funny. Back in the late 90s I remember reading about some hotels in bigger cities were trying to turn their bars into revenue centers instead of sinks. They made them louder, nightclub kind of places. Well what happened is the locals drove out the guests. I have spent too much time in hotel bars as a guest. Every time the last thing I ever wanted to see was locals filling the place. I wanted a nice, quiet place to have a few drinks and keep outside the room.
Quote:For example, look at all those parlors in West Virginia which are limited to five machines! The only source of revenue for those parlors is the five machines and buck beers! Can you imagine that? Five machines with the State taking a huge chunk of the profits, free coffee, pop and cappuccino, employee expenses, machine rental fees and furnishings all against the House Edge of those five machines? And yet many of them profit!!!
It seems like the micro-casinos can make money well so can the biggest places. Somewhere in the middle seems to be the hard part.
Quote:New Members Play $100 Get $100 in FanPlay
Anytime
•Sign up for a new Fan Club card in August
•Play $100 on your Fan Club card that day
•We will reimburse your same-day $100 loss by giving you $50 in FanPlay instantly.
•Then, you will receive another $50 FanPlay on your Fan Club card in 7 days automatically.
1.) That's not Play $100 get $100 Free Play, that's LOSE $100 and get $100 Free Play. Still more upfront that Revel was, I suppose.
2.) It's not August! It's September 13th!!! What's going on on September 13th?
You can't update your website with your new Member promos? Really? Can't change the month if the promo is the same? Really?? Someone needs not have a job anymore!
Quote: AZDuffmanHotel bars are funny. Back in the late 90s I remember reading about some hotels in bigger cities were trying to turn their bars into revenue centers instead of sinks. They made them louder, nightclub kind of places. Well what happened is the locals drove out the guests. I have spent too much time in hotel bars as a guest. Every time the last thing I ever wanted to see was locals filling the place. I wanted a nice, quiet place to have a few drinks and keep outside the room.
That's exactly the way we do it, the way you describe. We'll kick locals out at the smallest provocation. We don't advertise, we don't have Karaoke, we don't have DJ's, the sound system blows, etc...Prices are really good, though.
Besides some lovely scenery, Ohiopyle and vicinity boast what is by all accounts the most famous private house in the country, Frank Lloyd Wright's Fallingwater. It's just about 10 miles up Route 381 from the casino. But the Fort Necessity re-creation does not really do justice to its strategic importance in getting the French and Indian War started.Quote: AZDuffmanNemacolin Woodlands sits southeast of Uniontown, PA. The road that fronts it is the oldest US Highway in existence. Down the road is Fort Necessity, used during the French and Indian War (Seven Years War to our international readers.) The road is still two lanes, and there is next to nothing commercial or residential anywhere nearby.
Quote: Mission146
The annual membership could also have more value if you plan on doing anything there besides this one promotion for any period greater than 90 days, but I don't know why you would...
Hmmm...well...say you live 4 miles from the casino and they give $10 in free play 4x/week to anyone with a pulse. Then the membership is much better than paying each day:-)
Quote: rdw4potusHmmm...well...say you live 4 miles from the casino and they give $10 in free play 4x/week to anyone with a pulse. Then the membership is much better than paying each day:-)
That's very true!
This place sounds much better than Lady Luck, I might even check-see how far away from me it is!
