SoCal's new casino

Tortoise Rock Casino

I'm guessing this casino, due to its proximity to the marine base, will be 18 and over. Here's to hoping the slot club is decent and the dealers are "fun".

Quote: RogerKint

Tortoise Rock Casino

I'm guessing this casino, due to it's proximity to the marine base, will be 18 and over.

Can you imagine the cocktail waitresses saying, "Sorry, too young to drink?"

Is this the casino that the tribe has been trying to open for years in Twenty-Nine Palms but encountering opposition from both the locals and the endangered species? Is there indication that it is really going to open?

The previous effort (Nuwu Casino in 2007) seemed to have failed due to the economic down-turn and large size of the planned structure. The new plans are much smaller and economic sentiment is positively changing. Hopefully, this one works. Time will tell.

Quote: GH

Can you imagine the cocktail waitresses saying, "Sorry, too young to drink?"

My girlfriend is 28 (looks 18, forgot her ID) and was told by restaurant staff, INSIDE A CASINO, that she would not be able to order alcoholic beverages.

I get carded all the time. Most annoying case was at Silverton-- carded for a water while I was at VP.

They need something closer to the LA region... driving out to Pechanga or Morongo each time is kind of meh.

San Manuel? Everyone forgets about them. Yes they have CSMs and suck at VP but they are the closest legitimate casino to the region.

Quote: Venthus

I get carded all the time. Most annoying case was at Silverton-- carded for a water while I was at VP.

They need something closer to the LA region... driving out to Pechanga or Morongo each time is kind of meh.

About seven years ago there was a State constitution initiative (proposition) on the California ballot that would have extended casino gambling in the state to the card clubs in Los Angeles and also would have added real craps and real roulette, but it was voted down. There are no plans, as of now, for a new initiative to change the law -- even to make way for real craps and real roulette at the Indian casinos.

this new casino -- subject of this thread -- appears to the a "satellite casino" of the Spotlight 29. Does anyone know more about this?

I know that a few years ago (gosh it must be ten years ago) Morongo was given permission to expand the number of slots and to have two casinos plus slots at its gas station plaza. I wonder if this is an expansion under the same compact? By the way, this was the compact that allowed the California Indian Casinos to have more slots than any of the Vegas casinos -- and most of them do. I think they can have as many as 7,500 slot machines.

Quote: AlanMendelson

this new casino -- subject of this thread -- appears to the a "satellite casino" of the Spotlight 29. Does anyone know more about this?

You're right. The Twenty-Nine Palms band of Mission Indians is involved in both projects. There's also a link to Tortoise Rock on Spotlight 29's website.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Does anyone know more about this?

I'm certainly not a reliable resource on this topic, but this is what my feeble brain retains of the likely-misinformation that I heard. The tribe is really from the 29 Palms area, but they acquired rights to operate the Spotlight 29 that belonged to some other tribe. Does that make any sense?

The tribe has been trying for quite some time to get approval for a casino in 29 Palms. Their chosen site was right next to an entrance to the Joshua Tree National Monument, and they got a lot of local opposition. Then, when they performed the required environmental impact assessment, it was determined that their building would disturb the natural water drainage (and perhaps other factors) and would adversely impact the endangered Desert Tortoise. That came close to killing their venture, and I think that was the impetus for pursuing the Spotlight 29.

The tribe also tried to get approval for a casino in another town a few miles down the road. I think it was off-reservation in either Joshua Tree or Yucca Valley, but they encountered a lot of local opposition there, too.

If they do get a casino operating in 29 Palms, then the trip back there to get my souvenir chip will allow me to revisit the outstanding murals that they have painted on buildings all over town. I have photos of a bunch of them, but it is almost impossible to capture decent images of some of them because of things that obstruct the views. If you haven't ever seen them and happen to be passing through the area (or even as close as Palm Springs), they are worth the effort of picking up a map from the visitor's center and riding around the little town.

They used to have competitions among mural painters, I think. Below is my photo of one of my favorites of the murals -- a mural of a mural painter taking a break. And no, there are no people or animals in this photo -- that's just a completely flat wall on the side of a store, with no real projections or shadows (except the shadow of one of the light fixtures on the dirt in the foreground).

that is a PAINTING of the bull, and not a REAL bull? amazing.

Wow. Might have to make a trip out there specifically for that sometime. That's in Twentynine Palms or is it a "close enough" city to it?

Quote: calwatch

San Manuel? Everyone forgets about them. Yes they have CSMs and suck at VP but they are the closest legitimate casino to the region.

True, that is a place I forget all the time. Unfortunately, I'm in Newport Beach though, so it's not much closer. =P

This is in the town of Twenty-Nine Palms, or 29 Palms, California. I'm not really sure which is more common or official.

As I said, I have a bunch of photos I took of the murals and sections and/or details of murals, but here is a web site specifically about the murals there. The photos at that site are much too small to do the paintings justice, and there may be a better site. There are probably books, too.

The artist who did the mural with the steer is named John Pugh. He has a website showcasing his work here.

I wonder how they keep the graffitti punks from ruining the work? Public art doesn't stand a chance in my neighborhood.

Pre-grading has begun. There's to be no public ground-breaking ceremony.

Quote: calwatch

San Manuel? Everyone forgets about them. Yes they have CSMs and suck at VP but they are the closest legitimate casino to the region.

One good thing is they don't have any 6:5 games and their shoe games do offer surrender. No S17 games, but as far as I know, the only casino in So Cal to offer S17 is Augustine (at $5 no less). San Manuel does have some decent VP in the HL room. A floorman there once told me "People complain about our bad paybacks but our location is so good they'll keep coming." Just like most casinos though, it has its positive plays if one looks hard enough.

It's really going to be small, almost like a big local bar/restaurant with gaming. Only 450 parking spaces.

Grand opening March 31st at 5pm.

Quote: RogerKint

No S17 games, but as far as I know, the only casino in So Cal to offer S17 is Augustine (at $5 no less).

I know that Fantasy Springs has SOME kind of S17, since I got stung by it a few times, accustomed to H17. I kind of gave up on that place though since they evidently found me so boring, I don't even warrant advertisements. That, and getting all four aces in single deck, no resplits, in two consecutive shuffles.

Quote: RogerKint

Grand opening March 31st at 5pm.

Thanks for the update; was wondering when this place was finally going to open!

Don't get me started on FS! They mailed me a $100 dining coupon to be used for my birthday. We show up in our sunday best, after a two hour drive, to be informed the coupon couldn't be used on concert dates. I probably should have read the small print!

TRC is going to be selling commemorative chips at the grand opening. I can try to get some if any forum members are interested.

Quote: GH

Quote: RogerKint

Tortoise Rock Casino

I'm guessing this casino, due to it's proximity to the marine base, will be 18 and over.

Can you imagine the cocktail waitresses saying, "Sorry, too young to drink?"

Would the Alcoholic Beverage Control board in California allow any alcohol to be served on the casino floor (as opposed to in a specified bar area) if the age limit was below 21?

Quote: AlanMendelson

About seven years ago there was a State constitution initiative (proposition) on the California ballot that would have extended casino gambling in the state to the card clubs in Los Angeles and also would have added real craps and real roulette, but it was voted down. There are no plans, as of now, for a new initiative to change the law -- even to make way for real craps and real roulette at the Indian casinos.

I took a look at the compact between California and the Twentynine Palms Band of Mission Indians, which apparently control this new casino, and the usual rider about "no roulette of any form" isn't in it. It may be possible to have video and/or card roulette here.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: GH

Quote: RogerKint

Tortoise Rock Casino

I'm guessing this casino, due to it's proximity to the marine base, will be 18 and over.

Can you imagine the cocktail waitresses saying, "Sorry, too young to drink?"

Would the Alcoholic Beverage Control board in California allow any alcohol to be served on the casino floor (as opposed to in a specified bar area) if the age limit was below 21?

Casino Morongo is 18+ and serves alcohol on the casino floor.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

We're being attacked! Someone get this guys name in red!!

Sorry, slow on the draw today. Doc got my attention, all is well again. I'm gonna edit your quote so he doesn't get the ad space

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Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: GH

Quote: RogerKint

Tortoise Rock Casino

I'm guessing this casino, due to it's proximity to the marine base, will be 18 and over.

Can you imagine the cocktail waitresses saying, "Sorry, too young to drink?"

Would the Alcoholic Beverage Control board in California allow any alcohol to be served on the casino floor (as opposed to in a specified bar area) if the age limit was below 21?

There's an Indian casino in San Diego with an age limit of 18 that serves alcohol on the casino floor - Viejas.

Quote: RogerKint

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: GH

Quote: RogerKint

Tortoise Rock Casino

I'm guessing this casino, due to it's proximity to the marine base, will be 18 and over.

Can you imagine the cocktail waitresses saying, "Sorry, too young to drink?"

Would the Alcoholic Beverage Control board in California allow any alcohol to be served on the casino floor (as opposed to in a specified bar area) if the age limit was below 21?

Casino Morongo is 18+ and serves alcohol on the casino floor.

Wrist bands are given to those 21+. They do not serve alcohol to those under 21 even though they can gamble at Morongo.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

I took a look at the compact between California and the Twentynine Palms Band of Mission Indians, which apparently control this new casino, and the usual rider about "no roulette of any form" isn't in it. It may be possible to have video and/or card roulette here.

Card roulette is now pretty common in most of the Indian casinos. Rincon used to have video roulette but removed it when the "mystery card" roulette was installed.

I wonder if anyone has ever seen them insert the cards into the slots to verify that they are all there?

At card craps when they change the cards it is done on the table in front of the players.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: GH

Quote: RogerKint

Tortoise Rock Casino

I'm guessing this casino, due to it's proximity to the marine base, will be 18 and over.

Can you imagine the cocktail waitresses saying, "Sorry, too young to drink?"

Would the Alcoholic Beverage Control board in California allow any alcohol to be served on the casino floor (as opposed to in a specified bar area) if the age limit was below 21?

Looks like they serve alcohol at Morongo, from what others have posted. I know Viejas serves alcohol and is 18+.

I've *heard* that legally the Indian casinos can serve alcohol to whomever they want, since they're a sovereign nation" or some sh**. But they only serve to those who are 21+ because the (national?) government pays for the roads in and around the reservation.....or something like that. Actually....I think that's what the national government does to the state [since the age for drinking is set by state law, not federal law].

Quote: RS

Actually....I think that's what the national government does to the state [since the age for drinking is set by state law, not federal law].

It is. Or at least, it was. The feds made it clear that they'd withhold money for highway construction and repair if the states didn't raise the drinking age. They did the same thing when the BAC threshold was lowered to 0.10, but not (I don't think) on the more recent lowering to 0.08.

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Quote: AlanMendelson

Wrist bands are given to those 21+. They do not serve alcohol to those under 21 even though they can gamble at Morongo.

Many bars and casinos will give wristbands to patrons who look under 21 so that security doesn't have to keep checking their ID. The only times I have received a wristband at Morongo is when checking into the hotel for pool access. Btw, pool ap alert, during the winter months no wristband is needed to access pool/water slide. Don't burn it out.

Quote: RS

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Would the Alcoholic Beverage Control board in California allow any alcohol to be served on the casino floor (as opposed to in a specified bar area) if the age limit was below 21?

Looks like they serve alcohol at Morongo, from what others have posted. I know Viejas serves alcohol and is 18+.

I've *heard* that legally the Indian casinos can serve alcohol to whomever they want, since they're a sovereign nation" or some sh**. But they only serve to those who are 21+ because the (national?) government pays for the roads in and around the reservation.....or something like that. Actually....I think that's what the national government does to the state [since the age for drinking is set by state law, not federal law].

I am not sure about that, but I did find the appropriate parts of California law, and the "you have to be 21 just to be there" law applies just to bars and other places "maintained and operated for the selling or serving of alcoholic beverages to the public for consumption on the premises." (While there are specific exceptions for, for example, sports arenas, a casino's gaming floor would fall under this general exception.)

Quote: AlanMendelson

Card roulette is now pretty common in most of the Indian casinos.

Only compacts written in 2011 or later include the ban on card roulette. The most recent one before then that I could find (the Yurok compact of 2006) specifically bans roulette, but not card (or video) roulette.

The only tribes/groups that cannot offer card roulette appear to be:
Coyote Valley Band of Pomo
Graton Rancheria
Habematolel Pomo (Upper Lake)
Pinoleville Pomo
Ramona (Cahuilla)
Shingle Springs Miwok

Note that any amended compact with any other tribe probably will include a ban on card roulette.

Pardon the bump, but it suddenly hit me (wait...what? A queen? I bust with 30?) that there is a way for an enterprising gaming company to get around this ban; create a multi-game slot machine where each game is "jackpot or nothing" (I see these every now and then in Vegas) and each game corresponds to a probability and payout for a roulette bet.
For example, the different games could be (assuming all bets are 1):
"Red & Black" - 18/38 chance of winning; payout is 2 (i.e. even money)
"Three Columns" - 12/38 chance of winning; payout is 3
"Four Square" (i.e. box of 4 numbers) - 4/38 chance of winning; payout is 9
"Line of Three" - 3/38 chance of winning; payout is 12
"Greens" - 2/38 chance of winning; payout is 18
"One Shot" (i.e. single number) - 1/38 chance of winning; payout is 36
Okay, this has the disadvantage of not being able to play particular numbers (otherwise it's not a slot machine but a version of roulette), which is one of the reasons people play roulette in the first place, but it's about as close as some casinos are going to get.

That is, unless the definition of "roulette" requires that a ball be simulated, in which case the manufacturers switch to Plan B: an electronic version of the Wheel of Fortune (not to be confused with Wheel...Of...Fortune!) where, instead of 7 bets of various probabilities, there are 38 possible bets, each with the same probability, and you are allowed to spread any bet out over any number of numbers (so you can spread a $1 bet over 18 numbers with a return of $2 (which includes your $1 bet) if any of them win). We'll let a court decide whether or not this is "roulette". (Are there any versions of "card roulette" that don't use a wheel at all, but just draw a card from a deck of 38?)

Quote: RogerKint

Pre-grading has begun. There's to be no public ground-breaking ceremony.



One good thing is they don't have any 6:5 games and their shoe games do offer surrender. No S17 games, but as far as I know, the only casino in So Cal to offer S17 is Augustine (at $5 no less). San Manuel does have some decent VP in the HL room. A floorman there once told me "People complain about our bad paybacks but our location is so good they'll keep coming." Just like most casinos though, it has its positive plays if one looks hard enough.

Does San Manuel have any blackjack tables that are not continuous shuffle?