Poll

9 votes (22.5%)
1 vote (2.5%)
17 votes (42.5%)
1 vote (2.5%)
7 votes (17.5%)
1 vote (2.5%)
1 vote (2.5%)
2 votes (5%)
1 vote (2.5%)

40 members have voted

clarkacal
clarkacal
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January 23rd, 2011 at 10:27:36 AM permalink
Which profession tends to have the shadiest individuals? If your selection is not listed, please vote and then reply with your opinion of a different profession. I left out the obvious such as drug dealers or prostitutes.
Wavy70
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January 23rd, 2011 at 10:31:27 AM permalink
Quote: clarkacal

Which profession tends to have the shadiest individuals? If your selection is not listed, please vote and then reply with your opinion of a different profession. I left out the obvious such as drug dealers or prostitutes.



Drug dealers and prostitutes are the last vestige of free trade in the country. They may be the most moral of all.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
clarkacal
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January 23rd, 2011 at 10:32:49 AM permalink
Quote: Wavy70

Drug dealers and prostitutes are the last vestige of free trade in the country. They may be the most moral of all.



lol interesting...point taken
Jufo81
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January 23rd, 2011 at 10:57:38 AM permalink
Full-time advantage player? (card-counters, casino bonus whores, matched bettors)
AZDuffman
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January 23rd, 2011 at 11:25:54 AM permalink
I voted Hollywood Execs. Even Henry Hill said he found them more crooked than any of his mafia buddies.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
mkl654321
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January 23rd, 2011 at 11:55:08 AM permalink
Quote: clarkacal

Which profession tends to have the shadiest individuals? If your selection is not listed, please vote and then reply with your opinion of a different profession. I left out the obvious such as drug dealers or prostitutes.



No profession. Making simplistic judgments and classifications based on one characteristic of a group of individuals is always incorrect.

There are "shady" people in every profession, including doctors, priests, hot dog vendors, pimps, undertakers, and professional zombie hunters. There are also perfectly good people in each of those, and all other, professions.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
boymimbo
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January 23rd, 2011 at 11:59:04 AM permalink
Corporate execs #1? What happened to all of the libertarians out there? Capitalism reigns! Corporate Executives should be free to do what they want, get paid what they want at the expense of there employees, and bribe whatever politician you want (my vote) to get what they want.
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Nareed
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January 23rd, 2011 at 12:05:21 PM permalink
Q: What's the difference between a politician and a hooker?

A: One is a lowly panderer, who will perform any act, no matter how degrading, in exchange for money. The other is a prostitute.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
clarkacal
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January 23rd, 2011 at 12:07:27 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

No profession. Making simplistic judgments and classifications based on one characteristic of a group of individuals is always incorrect.

There are "shady" people in every profession, including doctors, priests, hot dog vendors, pimps, undertakers, and professional zombie hunters. There are also perfectly good people in each of those, and all other, professions.



Yes I realize that so I made it an opinion poll and included the word "tends".
AZDuffman
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January 23rd, 2011 at 12:36:36 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Corporate execs #1? What happened to all of the libertarians out there? Capitalism reigns! Corporate Executives should be free to do what they want, get paid what they want at the expense of there employees, and bribe whatever politician you want (my vote) to get what they want.



Bribe? No, bribing politicians is illegal. But you seem to have a problem with the fact that corporate execs have one job and that is to maximize shareholeder wealth.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
waltomeal
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January 23rd, 2011 at 1:38:38 PM permalink
What's tan and looks good on a lawyer?

A pit bull.
Old enough to repaint. Young enough to sell.
mkl654321
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January 23rd, 2011 at 2:32:46 PM permalink
Quote: clarkacal

Yes I realize that so I made it an opinion poll and included the word "tends".



There are not any tendencies, either, other than the ones we imagine because we don't like the profession a particular group of people are practicing.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
WizardofEngland
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January 23rd, 2011 at 2:34:45 PM permalink
none of the above.
loan sharks
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
mkl654321
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January 23rd, 2011 at 2:40:35 PM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

none of the above.
loan sharks



But why would there necessarily be "shady people" in that profession, more than any other?

Fact of the matter is, a lot of people use loan sharks, so they must be providing a service. If you can't get a bank loan (and these days, only about fifteen people in the entire country can), then it's either to the pawnshop to get a $50 loan on a $2000 wedding ring, or to the loan shark. It's a business like any other--with the prices (interest, "vig", etc.) set by supply and demand. At least with a loan shark you know what the terms are--unlike with a mortgage bank that charges fees, points, modifications, rate changes, fees, points, just cause we can fees, and extra charges that are applied according to the signs of the zodiac.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
clarkacal
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January 23rd, 2011 at 2:49:21 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

But why would there necessarily be "shady people" in that profession, more than any other?

Fact of the matter is, a lot of people use loan sharks, so they must be providing a service. If you can't get a bank loan (and these days, only about fifteen people in the entire country can), then it's either to the pawnshop to get a $50 loan on a $2000 wedding ring, or to the loan shark. It's a business like any other--with the prices (interest, "vig", etc.) set by supply and demand. At least with a loan shark you know what the terms are--unlike with a mortgage bank that charges fees, points, modifications, rate changes, fees, points, just cause we can fees, and extra charges that are applied according to the signs of the zodiac.



mkl votes for bankers. Leaving them out of the selctions was definitely an oversight on my part, they definitely deserve to be in the mix.
P90
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January 23rd, 2011 at 3:15:13 PM permalink
I'm surprised so many people go after attorneys. Surely their job description varies, but it's a job the system requires, and the system wouldn't work if they didn't do it. And most of the time they are acting under client orders, so it becomes shooting the messenger.

Corporate executives... while a lot are certainly corrupt and make big stories, most are just hired management. Shady, but not that shady.

My pick is politicians. First of all, it's the job they do: mix half-truths with lies to get elected, then lobby private interests for hire. Second is the hypocrisy of doing it perfectly legally and on public payroll. While there are shady people in all professions, not in all it is a job requirement.
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FleaStiff
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January 23rd, 2011 at 3:17:35 PM permalink
When someone sics a pit bull on you, who you gonna go running to ... a comedian or a lawyer?

As far as overall and immediate tendency to engage in nefarious dealings, cheat people of large amounts, keep multiple books, etc., its clearly Hollywood types.

As far as routine cheating of substantial but not humungous amounts, ... real estate and insurance people. Ever have a life insurance salesman tell you most life insurance policies are never paid out? Populist states such as Wisconsin had the right idea. Until AIDS patients discovered it, the Wisconsin Life Fund was the best bargain.

As far as nickle and dimeing people to death: perhaps cabbies and waitresses but it hardly amounts to anything. An occasional bar tender soaping the glass to make a customer want to leave ain't all that such a big deal these days. Though its no longer just in Aruba where the bartender will slip the Mickey into your girl's drink, its still pretty much an okay racket. If buying a bar, always look at the Beg and Borrow book: if its pristine its all lies, if its got stains and scribbles all over it, thats more like it.

Executives? Well, think back to Enron energy traders in Texas. The whole cabal were rigging the markets, but you can't do that unless the traders at the other end of the phone have some bad apples. It used to be "you can't cheat an honest man" ... now its "you can't find an honest man". Unloading stolen auto parts used to be hard. Now its hard to move legitimate auto parts.

Doctors? Money in medicine is made by control of patients. Sure oncologists make a mint and can fudge on the doses and medical mills make money all the time but in reality its control over the flow of patients.

Far and above, lawyers are the more ethical. And they atleast are known as your adversaries. Even though if you are referring to criminal law the rule nowadays is "If you are guilty you need a lawyer; if you are innocent, you need a good lawyer."
mkl654321
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January 23rd, 2011 at 3:45:04 PM permalink
Quote: clarkacal

mkl votes for bankers. Leaving them out of the selctions was definitely an oversight on my part, they definitely deserve to be in the mix.



Point missed. I don't vote for ANY profession.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
clarkacal
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January 23rd, 2011 at 4:26:50 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Point missed. I don't vote for ANY profession.



no I got your point
ahiromu
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January 23rd, 2011 at 4:38:21 PM permalink
You forgot Chiropractors and their "science".
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clarkacal
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January 23rd, 2011 at 4:41:34 PM permalink
I know, I always forget some good ones. I wish I could edit polls.
boymimbo
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January 23rd, 2011 at 4:53:56 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Bribe? No, bribing politicians is illegal. But you seem to have a problem with the fact that corporate execs have one job and that is to maximize shareholder wealth.



No, that that shouldn't be their only job. That view is the problem with corporate America today. If they wanted to maximize wealth they would just sell out to the highest bidder. Being a good corporate executive also means making decisions that will maximize the value of the company in the long term. That means managing its balance sheet well, achieving capital growth by making wise use of reinvesting their capital, and making sure that the company remains a going concern. It should also mean to have some degree of corporate responsibility to its employees and its community through decent benefits, pension plans, and compensation. However, with globalization and competition nowadays, that is becoming more and more difficult.

My vote was crooked politicians.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
boymimbo
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January 23rd, 2011 at 4:57:47 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

But why would there necessarily be "shady people" in that profession, more than any other?

Fact of the matter is, a lot of people use loan sharks, so they must be providing a service. If you can't get a bank loan (and these days, only about fifteen people in the entire country can), then it's either to the pawnshop to get a $50 loan on a $2000 wedding ring, or to the loan shark. It's a business like any other--with the prices (interest, "vig", etc.) set by supply and demand. At least with a loan shark you know what the terms are--unlike with a mortgage bank that charges fees, points, modifications, rate changes, fees, points, just cause we can fees, and extra charges that are applied according to the signs of the zodiac.



So now you advocate loan sharks. In my neck of the woods, Asian loan sharks charge 10 percent interest every other day. And if you don't pay, you die. Link.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Paigowdan
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January 23rd, 2011 at 4:59:56 PM permalink
There are no shady professions, just shady people. A variation of ....
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Switch
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January 23rd, 2011 at 5:07:38 PM permalink
Top of my list in the UK are 'Wheel Clampers' if you can call that a profession.
rxwine
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January 23rd, 2011 at 5:24:28 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

There are "shady" people in every profession, including doctors, priests, hot dog vendors, pimps, undertakers, and professional zombie hunters. There are also perfectly good people in each of those, and all other, professions.



I think there's a high percentage of frauds in people making a living telling you that your dead relative has a message for you business. James (what's his name), comes to mind. If most know they are frauds, then it's pretty shady.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
rxwine
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January 23rd, 2011 at 5:25:09 PM permalink
Of course, I would say that percentage is 100%.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
RaleighCraps
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January 23rd, 2011 at 6:05:03 PM permalink
I am curious how those of us who work for large corporations feel about corporate executives, as compared to those who work for small or independent companies. I have no problem lumping corporate executives in the same slime pool as politicians.

Corporate America is destroying our country chasing the almighty grail of ultra high stock prices. Move all of the jobs off-shore where you can get it done cheaper. Move the corporate office off shore, so you save on corporate taxes. Get rid of the pension plans, social security will take care of the workers. Cut the salary plan, the workers who did not get off shored are happy to just have a job. What are you left with? A company that just had RECORD net revenue, double digit growth, and huge stock increase. So, reward the CEO and his cronies with $20M in bonus pay and stock options because they did such a great job at managing the stock price. Never mind that $20M would have paid for a salary increase for the people who are making 1/500 the wages of the top company execs. Oh yeah, in order to get a great start to the next year, we better lay off some more people. Don't forget, we have to manage our expenses.
Meanwhile, 3,000 Americans are out of work, collecting unemployment from our government, while the government has 3,000 less people paying taxes, and the corporation itself is paying less tax. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that qualified skills can't be found on US soil, so they have to go to Washington and plead to increase the H1B visa count so we can bring in qualified skills, even though we have 1,000s of people in the US out of work. Of course, what they really mean is they can't find US skills who are qualified AND willing to take a job for the 35k the H1B worker will take.

New workers today know the rules of the game going in. Hit and run. Hit and run. Watch out for #1. But there are 1,000s of people who worked most of their careers under a set of rules that said watch the company back, and the company will watch yours. Except when things got tough the company watched out for itself, and then when things got better the company gave all the cash to the CEO.

Look at the airlines. Demonstrate how you are about to go under. Win concessions from the unions, give up salary, give up benefits, etc. Then when the airline survives, reward the CEO with a massive bonus for doing such a wonderful job. Huh ???

I am all for capitalism, BUT it is not capitalism when you are screwing the workers in your company to make your numbers, and then getting rewarded with money that was taken from the workers. It is legalized THEFT
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
wildqat
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January 24th, 2011 at 12:02:32 AM permalink
I vote for oak trees.

Quote: P90

I'm surprised so many people go after attorneys. Surely their job description varies, but it's a job the system requires, and the system wouldn't work if they didn't do it. And most of the time they are acting under client orders, so it becomes shooting the messenger.


I know that lawyer hatred goes back at least as far as Shakespeare, but as far as modern times go, I think most people associate "lawyer" with the shyster types on TV commercials and class-action attorneys (also seen on TV). There are a lot more that actually work for the greater good and not the paycheck at the end of a big lawsuit, though.
mkl654321
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January 24th, 2011 at 12:16:23 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

So now you advocate loan sharks. In my neck of the woods, Asian loan sharks charge 10 percent interest every other day. And if you don't pay, you die. Link.



I didn't "advocate" bloody all. I only remarked that if there wasn't a demand for the service loan sharks provide, loan sharks wouldn't exist. That makes them not necessarily "shady" in my eyes, any more than a bartender is "shady" because people get drunk and then crash their cars into trees.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Yoyomama
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January 24th, 2011 at 2:19:42 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Q: What's the difference between a politician and a hooker?

A: One is a lowly panderer, who will perform any act, no matter how degrading, in exchange for money. The other is a prostitute.



I agree. No other group does more harm to this country with their arrogance and egos than politicians.
AZDuffman
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January 24th, 2011 at 5:29:42 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

No, that that shouldn't be their only job. That view is the problem with corporate America today. If they wanted to maximize wealth they would just sell out to the highest bidder. Being a good corporate executive also means making decisions that will maximize the value of the company in the long term.



That is still maximizing shareholder wealth. It is up to the board of directors to decide if they want it maximized short term or long term.


Quote:

It should also mean to have some degree of corporate responsibility to its employees and its community through decent benefits, pension plans, and compensation. However, with globalization and competition nowadays, that is becoming more and more difficult.



Uh, no it does not. The reason for a company having a pension plan or any employee benefits at all is to attract better employees who will better maximize shareholder wealth. Henry Ford gets all this credit for the $5 day. Well, the real reason he did it was because employee turnover was terrible, over 100% and the higher wages made people stick around. But it was his decision, not some government mandate. If the owners of a company decide they want to be "good people" they can pay more to simply pay more. But professional management of a company has one job, maximize shareholder wealth. If they do not do that job they will be out of jobs.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
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January 24th, 2011 at 5:37:48 AM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps


I am all for capitalism, BUT it is not capitalism when you are screwing the workers in your company to make your numbers, and then getting rewarded with money that was taken from the workers. It is legalized THEFT



If people don't like it they can quit. Workers today will let you train them then leave for a job across the street that pays $.25 an hour more. Or they forget they need to be productive and wonder why they get let go when they clearly are not producing their cost in productivity. It cuts both ways. What I realized at a very young age is that the company is there to make money, not to help you or give you a job. When you realize and accept that life goes much easier.

But here is another thing. Which mutual find do you invest in? You want the higher rate, right? When you fly, do you want the lowest possible fare? People move their money for a few % difference in return then moan and complain about "corporate greed." The so-called greed is in everyone's home. Yet somehow "wall street" is only to blame.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
boymimbo
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January 24th, 2011 at 6:04:03 AM permalink
Workers walk across the street to the other job paying $.25/more per hour for more than the reasons that they pay $.25 more. They do it because they are being treated like a machine. Loyalty means a great deal. Job conditions are important. The CEO who keeps their eye strictly on the stock price and getting the best financial returns will do so at the expense of their employees.

My job is installing a certain type of financial software for mid to large cap companies. I work for a very, very rich CEO. Inevitably, I get to see all the internal workings of these companies because my corporate sponsor is usually the CFO. Every industry is different. Maximizing the value to the shareholders is their primary mission, but even the heads of these finance departments are usually quite human. They realize that their employees are very valuable. They understand the tradeoffs of outsourcing and having poor working conditions leads to a lower quality product in the end. Good CFOs realize that long term investments with excellent returns are key. They understand that it's the long term picture that will deliver a quality product and maximize returns.

As for mutual funds, do you go for the short-term volatility or the long term gain? Do you go with a fund that will get you between -10 and 30 percent? Or do you go for the fund that gives you the 8 percent every year, year over year? Do you go with an income fund that gives you a dividend every year, or do you risk it and go with the fund that might be awesome? The answer's easy. if you're young you go for the volatility because you have time to recover. If you're older you go with the more stable fund. That's why you're strongly advised when you invest not to go for the rate, but for the stability. You're advised to diversify.

When I fly, I don't want the lowest possible fare. I want to get there as soon as possible, as safely as possible. I want to use a Star Alliance airlines because I'm in their loyalty program. If I have to connect, I don't connect in the city that gives me the shortest connection necessarily. I connect in the city where I have the best chance of making my connection and won't be hampered due to weather or bad on-time performance (O'Hare in the winter's a nightmare, though it usually has the best connections East to West).
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
AZDuffman
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January 24th, 2011 at 6:51:11 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

My job is installing a certain type of financial software for mid to large cap companies. I work for a very, very rich CEO. Inevitably, I get to see all the internal workings of these companies because my corporate sponsor is usually the CFO. Every industry is different. Maximizing the value to the shareholders is their primary mission, but even the heads of these finance departments are usually quite human. They realize that their employees are very valuable. They understand the tradeoffs of outsourcing and having poor working conditions leads to a lower quality product in the end. Good CFOs realize that long term investments with excellent returns are key. They understand that it's the long term picture that will deliver a quality product and maximize returns.



Again, this is just maximizing shareholder wealth. A company can decide people want only USA-Based call centers and never offshore ("outsource" is not the proper word as you can outsource within your own country) workers. Or they can decide customers want the best possible price and go with the lowest cost of providing the service. In the gaming world, the owners of Harrah's, er, Caesars could look at their assets and sell them off one by one. Or sell the Flamingo building but not the land and let someone else run the casino/hotel. Or turn some places slots-only. Or bring back 3:2 BJ to get more players. They could give the dealers a raise to get better service. Or they could have no base and go-for-your-own tips only (assuming it was legal to do so.)

Point being, the management is supposed to do this for the shareholders and not some feel-good reason. What amazes me is people call corporate execs "evil" when they are just doing the job their bosses, ie the shareholders, ask of them. Also amazes me people get upset when a company seeks to maximize its profits as if that is a novel concept.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
dm
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January 24th, 2011 at 9:17:42 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

No profession. Making simplistic judgments and classifications based on one characteristic of a group of individuals is always incorrect.

There are "shady" people in every profession, including doctors, priests, hot dog vendors, pimps, undertakers, and professional zombie hunters. There are also perfectly good people in each of those, and all other, professions.




Wow. You set a new standard for ridiculous comments. By the way, you will not be barred if you don't make a negative comment on every topic. Everyone keep voting and ignore mkl. Speaking of voting, I vote for JL to be reinstated immediately. He couldn't top,
I mean undercut this post.
dm
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January 24th, 2011 at 9:19:44 AM permalink
I found it very painful to be limited to only one choice.
mkl654321
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January 24th, 2011 at 9:44:14 AM permalink
Quote: dm

Wow. You set a new standard for ridiculous comments. By the way, you will not be barred if you don't make a negative comment on every topic. Everyone keep voting and ignore mkl. Speaking of voting, I vote for JL to be reinstated immediately. He couldn't top,
I mean undercut this post.



If you truly don't understand the point I was making, then I can see why you would want the return of JL.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
JustJose
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January 24th, 2011 at 10:03:44 AM permalink
Quote: dm

Wow. You set a new standard for ridiculous comments. By the way, you will not be barred if you don't make a negative comment on every topic. Everyone keep voting and ignore mkl. Speaking of voting, I vote for JL to be reinstated immediately. He couldn't top,
I mean undercut this post.



I do miss Jerry Logan at times. Seems like the lesser of two evils.
Come short with my cash and you'll be dancing like it's "Hammer Time"!
dm
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January 24th, 2011 at 10:46:54 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

If you truly don't understand the point I was making, then I can see why you would want the return of JL.




Well, someone has to ask - who did you vote for?
dm
dm
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Joined: Apr 29, 2010
January 24th, 2011 at 10:54:00 AM permalink
Quote: Yoyomama

I agree. No other group does more harm to this country with their arrogance and egos than politicians.




Man you are 100% right! But, surprisingly, I just learned from mkl that nuclear physicists, missionaries, you name it are all equally
as shady. So don't be bad mouthing those drug pushers. They are just trying to make a living.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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January 24th, 2011 at 7:22:23 PM permalink
Quote: dm

Man you are 100% right! But, surprisingly, I just learned from mkl that nuclear physicists, missionaries, you name it are all equally
as shady. So don't be bad mouthing those drug pushers. They are just trying to make a living.



Wow, you need to learn the skill of reading for comprehension. I said that no profession is INHERENTLY shady, therefore any answer to the question posed by the OP is meaningless.

And to answer your question, I didn't vote at all, for the reason stated above.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
clarkacal
clarkacal
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January 24th, 2011 at 7:50:34 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Wow, you need to learn the skill of reading for comprehension. I said that no profession is INHERENTLY shady, therefore any answer to the question posed by the OP is meaningless.

And to answer your question, I didn't vote at all, for the reason stated above.



He is a conscientious objector to participating in this poll.
Toes14
Toes14
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Joined: May 6, 2010
January 24th, 2011 at 8:13:05 PM permalink
Quote: waltomeal

What's tan and looks good on a lawyer?

A pit bull.



Come on now! The poor pit bull might hurt his tooth biting the lawyer! It would certainly leave a bad taste in his mouth!
"Bite my Glorious Golden Ass!" - Bender Bending Rodriguez
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