Which US city got the worst economic bad beat from Covid-19?
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29 members have voted
I vote Las Vegas. On top of losing hundreds of conventions, they also lost hosting this year's NFL Draft where they were going to close the stip down for 3 days, an unprecedented event in terms of length. Add the loss of hotel occupancies, entertainment and gambling, hands down in my opinion.
One city has thousands of dead, the other lost the NFL draft. For every Las Vegas resident who lost their job, I imagine 10 New Yorkers did. The cruise industry brings more into NY each week than the NFL draft does.
I can't imagine anything that Las Vegas has lost that NY hasn't lose multiples of.
Quote: billryanWhy were they closing the strip for three days? The NFL draft has been held at Radio City for years without disrupting the rest of the city.
They were just going to close down part of Las Vegas Boulevard for the crowds. Maybe they were going to do the draft outside or something? I don't know.
Quote: TigerWuThey were just going to close down part of Las Vegas Boulevard for the crowds. Maybe they were going to do the draft outside or something? I don't know.
Yes, they were going to close about four blocks of Las Vegas Blvd during certain hours over thee days bevause of the draft activities outside..
Quote: billryanWhy were they closing the strip for three days? The NFL draft has been held at Radio City for years without disrupting the rest of the city.
One city has thousands of dead, the other lost the NFL draft. For every Las Vegas resident who lost their job, I imagine 10 New Yorkers did. The cruise industry brings more into NY each week than the NFL draft does.
I can't imagine anything that Las Vegas has lost that NY hasn't lose multiples of.
The NFL draft has been held in various cities for the past six years, last year was in Nashville, a 225 million economic impact it generated. Vegas would have doubled that. They have been attracting monsterous crowds. They were going to hold this years draft on the Bellagio Lake, closing the strip between Russell and Spring Mt. give or take a mile.
NYC by far has the most fataliies. I'm just trying to comprehend the economic impact. The financial district was still open, stock market was still open. Closing the market would've been severe. But it didn't. But NYC is a population of 10 million? Vegas 2? That was just a guess.
Quote: VegasriderI'm just trying to comprehend the economic impact.
Open any city, state, or whatever before the virus is under control, and it will quickly follow South Dakota's lead. I expect it will suffer a bigger setback in the long run (than if it had controlled the virus before opening).
Open whatever you want, but who will come to gamble?
- If the expected recession crashes in behind the virus, the gaming public may want to visit Las Vegas, but won't because of the more precarious situation, both in the country and with the individual gamblers' finances.
- Most Las Vegas visitors arrive by plane, and no one is flying. Folks are unlikely to fly until they feel safe from the virus while packed tightly together on an airplane. Air travel resumes after the vaccine, not before.
- International visitors -- almost without exception -- cannot enter America. That probably won't change until key countries demonstrate they have the virus under control (as determined by the USA). Expect no immediate changes there. Whenever America finally opens the door to foreign visitors, do we just abandon the (current most places) requirement to self-isolate for 14 days after international travel?
Get the timing wrong on this all-in bet, and the impact could be many times worse. Perhaps Las Vegas can pull the rabbit out of the hat, as if by magic. Perhaps not.
I don't think it's close.
If you want to include some Caribbean countries, many get the majority of their money from now non-existent American tourists. They might be the worst hit per capita.
Not in New York for several years. And the figures look pretty large, like a combined CES and EDC:Quote: billryanWhy were they closing the strip for three days? The NFL draft has been held at Radio City for years without disrupting the rest of the city.
One city has thousands of dead, the other lost the NFL draft. For every Las Vegas resident who lost their job, I imagine 10 New Yorkers did. The cruise industry brings more into NY each week than the NFL draft does.
I can't imagine anything that Las Vegas has lost that NY hasn't lose multiples of.
"Approximately 600,000 fans attended the NFL Draft in Nashville, smashing the previous record for the event. The Nashville Convention and Visitor Corporation (NCVC) had hoped for around 300,000 visitors but the number far surpassed expectations.
Philadelphia held the previous mark of 250,000 over the three days of the 2017 draft."
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Quote: rxwinePart of the equation involves how diverse the industry is and how much it can rely on other industries when the major industry fails. That's why Vegas got hit so hard the last recession.
Normally, but in this case the cities are shut down almost entirely.
Quote: rxwineWell, the service industry of Vegas couldn't support the real estate collapse. The casinos were still making some money.
You ain't seen nothing yet!
To quote an authority on the process: "I'm sure you have a source for this."Quote: billryanNYC gets about twenty million more tourists than Vegas per year, and certainly attracts more foreigners. I don't know if you've ever been to Manhattan, but there are many more restaurants than Vegas, many more hotels(but not as many hotel rooms) and Broadway has more shows than the Strip. NYC, especially Brooklyn, has an amazingly vibrant live music scene. The UFC canceled a sold out show at Barclays, they lost two hockey teams, two basketball teams and two baseball teams.
I don't think it's close.
Quote: billryanNYC gets about twenty million more tourists than Vegas per year, and certainly attracts more foreigners. I don't know if you've ever been to Manhattan, but there are many more restaurants than Vegas, many more hotels(but not as many hotel rooms) and Broadway has more shows than the Strip. NYC, especially Brooklyn, has an amazingly vibrant live music scene. The UFC canceled a sold out show at Barclays, they lost two hockey teams, two basketball teams and two baseball teams.
I don't think it's close.
I’ve been to Manhattan about 50 times. In fact I’ve been to all 50 states and been to all of the major cities in each state, and small cities too. I’ve been everywhere. Part of the reason why I use to live in Vegas, it was a great home base in which I could fly non stop to just about everywhere.
Nevada has a little over 3 million people, around 2/3 living in or around Vegas. As of today , over 300k Nevadans has filed for unemployment in less than 30 days. That’s a big percentage.
its hyprocritical to say the poorest of the poor should be the ones suffering for this virus by losing their income, to save the lives of maybe 100 people per day. yet u would never ban smoking, and driving cars, which kills more like 500 people a day total. they dont have a luxurious home to hole up in and take a few months vacation like u do.
Quote: sevencard2003i cant imagine anyone wanting to go to NYC. even the motel 6 there is like $150 a night if u need a room. only those in the top 1% of income and totally out of touch with the rest of the country would ever live there. rich liberals like u are completely out of touch with the working class and thats why u want to keep everyone locked down and why all those needing income to pay their bills want the casinos reopened immediately, virus be damned.
its hyprocritical to say the poorest of the poor should be the ones suffering for this virus by losing their income, to save the lives of maybe 100 people per day. yet u would never ban smoking, and driving cars, which kills more like 500 people a day total. they dont have a luxurious home to hole up in and take a few months vacation like u do.
Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded.
Quote: sevencard2003i cant imagine anyone wanting to go to NYC. even the motel 6 there is like $150 a night if u need a room. only those in the top 1% of income and totally out of touch with the rest of the country would ever live there. rich liberals like u are completely out of touch with the working class and thats why u want to keep everyone locked down and why all those needing income to pay their bills want the casinos reopened immediately, virus be damned.
its hyprocritical to say the poorest of the poor should be the ones suffering for this virus by losing their income, to save the lives of maybe 100 people per day. yet u would never ban smoking, and driving cars, which kills more like 500 people a day total. they dont have a luxurious home to hole up in and take a few months vacation like u do.
Yeah, it's nothing but ten million one percenters all crowded together
That billionaire in the two bedroom on the fifth floor was complaining about his incinerator smelling bad the other day and how he had to pay an extra fifty cents on the subway when the fares went up.
Quote: DalmatianIf I was millionaire I'd just ride this out on quarentine. Instead both my jobs are essential and im still working 100 hours a week....
Ain't it the truth
Essential workers complaining they have to work during this crisis
Non-essential workers complaining they can't work during this crisis.
leave it up to those who want to, and those who dont want to instead of deciding for them.
Quote: sevencard2003when the first casino somewhere in the USA reopens sometime in early may hopefully (as opposed to late may early june) i hope the management is smart enough to let all the employees who are too scared to go back to work the right to stay at home without worrying about losing their jobs (this will avoid lawsuits) and the ones who desperately want to start getting tips again (which they wont get in unemployment) the right to come work. instead of telling their dealers who gets to come work on that day, and who has to stay at home.
leave it up to those who want to, and those who dont want to instead of deciding for them.
Highly unlikely
I don't see what the basis for a lawsuit would be. If a business is open and you don't want to work you can't sue.
Quote: darkozHighly unlikely
I don't see what the basis for a lawsuit would be. If a business is open and you don't want to work you can't sue.
The employer owes the employees a safe work environment.
I can see a strong case for people not going back to work. Especially older, minority ones that are at the highest risk. What do we do with those people?
I saw a new report that people are most contagious before they are symptomatic so unless you are immune, every stranger you pass puts you at risk.
Hazardous work environment, for starters.Quote: darkozI don't see what the basis for a lawsuit would be.
Sure you can. This is America... anyone can sue anyone for any reason!Quote:If a business is open and you don't want to work you can't sue.
No job is reopening without that go ahead.
It becomes pretty difficult to argue a company followed an unsafe work environment when it's backed by the government.
I am not saying they are correct. The government may be totally wrong. But the business that reopens will have a pretty strong defense
Quote: JoemanHazardous work environment, for starters.
Sure you can. This is America... anyone can sue anyone for any reason!
That's just not true.
Perhaps you mean anyone can sue anyone for any "actionable" reason.
You can also say anyone can "initiate" a lawsuit. But if it's determined"not actionable" by the judge the lawsuit is meaningless and goes nowhere.
Furthermore, (and somewhat to your point that anyone can sue anyone) that's a double edged sword. They can sue back the complainant for filing a frivolous lawsuit
Whether they win or have it dismissed who knows
Quote: darkozThey will point to the government which is giving the all clear to open.
No job is reopening without that go ahead.
It becomes pretty difficult to argue a company followed an unsafe work environment when it's backed by the government.
I am not saying they are correct. The government may be totally wrong. But the business that reopens will have a pretty strong defense
Screw the government. A business owner has an obligation to both his employees and his customers to provide a safe environment.
Quote: billryanScrew the government. A business owner has an obligation to both his employees and his customers to provide a safe environment.
Precisely
Governmental regulations help ensure safety in work environments.
Unions help ensure safety of workers as well.
If the unions and the government don't mandate workers can stay home and continue to collect wages due to Coronavirus fears then I don't see any strength to a lawsuit
Even if there was some strength the person staying home could only claim damages. Damages for not working would be lost income. That's not gonna cover one tenth of a lawyer's fee so good luck finding representation
In NYC, Latin women are being hospitalized at a rate far above what the population would suggest. What happens when a few housekeepers get sick? A housekeeper tests positive, so now everyone who was around her or whose room she worked in is now supposed to quarantine for two weeks. Hows that going to work?
Ready, Fire, Aim.
Quote: billryanSo what does the overweight, diabetic, dealer do? Who is looking out for them? What happens when a dozen MGM employees get hospitalized?
In NYC, Latin women are being hospitalized at a rate far above what the population would suggest. What happens when a few housekeepers get sick? A housekeeper tests positive, so now everyone who was around her or whose room she worked in is now supposed to quarantine for two weeks. Hows that going to work?
Ready, Fire, Aim.
Cuomo in NYS is issuing an executive order that face masks are mandatory in public
Doesn't have to be store bought. Could be home made. Must cover both nose and mouth
Quote: beachbumbabsNYC, followed by Orlando, followed by Las Vegas.
Same cities but in reverse order.
I would also think smaller towns could be very hard hit. Particularly those reliant on out of state tourists. For example : Gatlinburg TN.
Quote: darkozCuomo in NYS is issuing an executive order that face masks are mandatory in public
Doesn't have to be store bought. Could be home made. Must cover both nose and mouth
How times have changed. NYC used to have ridiculous ant-masking laws.
Not that I feel sorry for anyone as they want to be in such a job.
(I tried to make that non-political, but pretty difficult)
Quote: rxwineAny decision anyone in charge makes for the overall good, could end up being judged wrong later on.
50ish % will think it was opened too soon. 50ish% will think it was opened too late.
Quote: VegasriderNevada’s unemployment rate for April was almost 29% which is the highest in the country. 2nd state was Michigan at 22%. Las Vegas got hit the hardest with numbers like this.
So people temporarily losing their jobs is worse than people permanently losing their lives. Seriously?
Quote: billryanSo people temporarily losing their jobs is worse than people permanently losing their lives. Seriously?
You have to put numbers in front of the word people for me to answer. And also define temporarily. I can assure you among the 29% unemployed a decent percentage of those are NOT temporary.
So if you say 50 people, half from nursing homes, lose their lives from COVID-19 versus 1,500,000 lose their jobs for a minimum of 4 months, some permanently, I'd say the job loss is worse. Of course you can disagree.
Quote: SOOPOOYou have to put numbers in front of the word people for me to answer. And also define temporarily. I can assure you among the 29% unemployed a decent percentage of those are NOT temporary.
So if you say 50 people, half from nursing homes, lose their lives from COVID-19 versus 1,500,000 lose their jobs for a minimum of 4 months, some permanently, I'd say the job loss is worse. Of course you can disagree.
Even if they lose their current job, they will not be permanently unemployed. We are approaching 100,000 dead. Not 50.
23,000 dead in NYC vs 240,000 workers in Vegas on layoff, the vast majority of whom will get relief checks and their jobs back.
I'm not even factoring in that many NYC residents have also lost their jobs. Just by its size, I'd have to think there are a lot more than 240,000 New Yorkers who are on layoffs right now. The hospitality industry in NYC alone employs somewhere around a half million people, most of whom are not working.
Quote: mcallister3200The question of the thread is economically. Long term unemployed citizens probably miss the money more than dead people. Majority of which were retirement age, although 45-64 yo age group there hit relatively hard too.
Ignoring the 23,000 dead, NYC has had many more layoffs than Las Vegas.
Quote: billryanSo people temporarily losing their jobs is worse than people permanently losing their lives. Seriously?
I find it odd that 100,000 have died
in the US from covid, about. Yet
not a single person in my wife's
huge family knows somebody
who died or knows of somebody
who died.
In Vietnam we lost 55,000. I personally
knew 4-5 young men who died.
Everybody knew somebody. Yet with
covid nobody knows anybody.
What's up with that.
Quote: EvenBobI find it odd that 100,000 have died
in the US from covid, about. Yet
not a single person in my wife's
huge family knows somebody
who died or knows of somebody
who died.
In Vietnam we lost 55,000. I personally
knew 4-5 young men who died.
Everybody knew somebody. Yet with
covid nobody knows anybody.
What's up with that.
I know 4 people who died from it.
And two were previously healthy people in their mid 40s.
Quote: michael99000I know 4 people who died from it. .
What did they really die of.
When you have people dying
from natural causes yet covid
is listed on the death certificate
as the cause because they had
the virus with no symptoms.
Quote: EvenBobWhat did they really die of.
When you have people dying
from natural causes yet covid
is listed on the death certificate
as the cause because they had
the virus with no symptoms.
Gee Bob... how many people in their 40's die of 'natural causes'? Whatever the f... that means anyway! Is a heart attack death "a natural cause?" Is cancer a "natural cause?"
You get mt point. There are at least 70,000 + that have died from COVID that would be alive if they didn't have COVID. If you believe one government agency it is 90,000 now. Some believe it is more than that. Some less. I'll go with the government number + or - 20%.
Most are pretty easy to figure out. Can't breathe. Have a fever. Test positive for COVID-19. Die.
