A small matter of time

I haven't played much roulette, but isn't there a small interval of time between the moment the dealer releases the ball, and when they declare "no more bets"? If he can manage to avoid mucking things up before the spin, and place a bet in time, there might be a one-spin-at-a-time opportunity to be had.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Any chance you're a Newhart fan?

No. But say "Larry, Darryl and Darryl," and I still smile. As I recall Darryl and Darryl spoke only once in the entire run of the show.

Actually I named the lead Larry after Larry Niven. It's kind of a joke, because Niven has stated in derisive fashion that time travel is fantasy. So putting him in a time travel story where such travel causes problems struck me as appropriate.

Having thought of that name, though, the Daryl just flowed out naturally. And it is a very tenous reference to Newhart.

Hmm. Got to work in the phrase "Are you the chief boogieman?" in there somehow. I can't even remember the name of that movie....

Quote: thecesspit

You should take a look at Primer for a film that deals with time travel in a very interesting way...

I second that, though I'm still not certain I have the film's chronology completely figured out.

My understanding of space/time is that any particular time and place (or whatever other dimensions you include) is an absolute. You can't "change" things. In other words, at that particular moment if Larry is there writing down the numbers at Roulette to later give to Daryl in the hotel room to go back in time and play, then the Daryl is already there at the table playing those same numbers that were given to him by Larry at the later time (and betting big and winning).

So your scenario cannot exist -- unless Larry wrote the numbers down wrong. If he wrote the correct numbers down and gave them to Daryl later in the hotel room, then Daryl was already there at the table playing them correctly and winning the whole time.

Given the inherent problems with a player disrupting the flow of the game, it doesn't seem likely that someone who went to all the trouble to travel back in time would pick Roulette. Keno seems a more logical game to win huge money with a little future knowledge, and an additional player opting in would not affect the flow of the draw.

Quote: austintx

My understanding of space/time is that any particular time and place (or whatever other dimensions you include) is an absolute. You can't "change" things. In other words, at that particular moment if Larry is there writing down the numbers at Roulette to later give to Daryl in the hotel room to go back in time and play, then the Daryl is already there at the table playing those same numbers that were given to him by Larry at the later time (and betting big and winning).

So your scenario cannot exist -- unless Larry wrote the numbers down wrong. If he wrote the correct numbers down and gave them to Daryl later in the hotel room, then Daryl was already there at the table playing them correctly and winning the whole time.

You could make that argument about every story involving time travel backwards. Basically, you run into the grandfather paradox. If you could travel backwards in time, you could kill your grandfather, which would mean you would never have been born in the first place to do it. A common solution to this paradox is to suggest that at the moment you travel back in time you create a parallel universe, and you can only affect the new one. I find it easier to just accept time travel on faith for purposes of enjoying the story. Albeit, all the time traveling on Lost was hard to keep straight.

Quote: Ayecarumba

Given the inherent problems with a player disrupting the flow of the game, it doesn't seem likely that someone who went to all the trouble to travel back in time would pick Roulette. Keno seems a more logical game to win huge money with a little future knowledge, and an additional player opting in would not affect the flow of the draw.

I disagree. Just one extra person playing might delay the game by a second. That extra person moving about the casino could also change the temperature or air currents slightly to effect the outcome. I still say if I could go back in time by 99 minutes, I'd pick baccarat.

Quote: Wizard

I disagree. Just one extra person playing might delay the game by a second. That extra person moving about the casino could also change the temperature or air currents slightly to effect the outcome. I still say if I could go back in time by 99 minutes, I'd pick baccarat.

Hmm, let me test my hypothesis.... Yep, you are right Wizard.. the numbers changed. Does anyone know where I can get some spare parts for my flux capacitor?

Kidding aside, couldn't the same environmental changes also affect the baccarat shuffle? How quickly do the contents of a shoe turnover?

Quote: Wizard

You could make that argument about every story involving time travel backwards. Basically, you run into the grandfather paradox. If you could travel backwards in time, you could kill your grandfather, which would mean you would never have been born in the first place to do it. A common solution to this paradox is to suggest that at the moment you travel back in time you create a parallel universe, and you can only affect the new one. I find it easier to just accept time travel on faith for purposes of enjoying the story. Albeit, all the time traveling on Lost was hard to keep straight.

I disagree. Just one extra person playing might delay the game by a second. That extra person moving about the casino could also change the temperature or air currents slightly to effect the outcome. I still say if I could go back in time by 99 minutes, I'd pick baccarat.

Why hasn't anybody said that they would go back and bet on the fifth race at Aqueduct or something like that (in a Vegas race book)? You couldn't possibly affect the outcome of the race by betting $1000 on the trifecta or something like that, especially since you would be several thousand miles away, but that 99 minutes would be plenty of time to record the outcome of three races and then hop back in time with plenty of leeway to place your bets.

The only fictional handling of the time travel paradox I ever have found believable is the notion that you actually CAN'T disturb the timeline; if you do something that disrupts it, the universe changes so that the ultimate outcome remains the same. The only cinematic treatment of this motif I ever saw was an obscure movie called The Final Something, where a modern aircraft carrier found itself in the Pacific Ocean on Dec. 6, 1941. They decide to screw with the timeline and annihilate the approaching Japanese fleet, but it turns out to be impossible.

Quote: mkl654321

The only fictional handling of the time travel paradox I ever have found believable is the notion that you actually CAN'T disturb the timeline; if you do something that disrupts it, the universe changes so that the ultimate outcome remains the same. The only cinematic treatment of this motif I ever saw was an obscure movie called The Final Something, where a modern aircraft carrier found itself in the Pacific Ocean on Dec. 6, 1941. They decide to screw with the timeline and annihilate the approaching Japanese fleet, but it turns out to be impossible.

The Final Countdown


edit: I suppose your action on the race has the potential to move the line which could affect conditions like the timing of the start of the event, or more likely, whether the Mob decides to hold back a horse in a race.

Quote: Wizard

I disagree. Just one extra person playing might delay the game by a second. That extra person moving about the casino could also change the temperature or air currents slightly to effect the outcome. I still say if I could go back in time by 99 minutes, I'd pick baccarat.

You're on the right track ;)

I can't use Baccarat for two reasons: 1) I don't know enough about it and 2) neither does the large majority of the population. And that's too bad, because knowing all the ties would be great. I do know roulette, or enough about it, and so do most people. At elast they know you get paid if your number hits (I won't complicate matters using corners, streets, odd, black, etc.)

Horse races might work. I'd had Daryl come up with prop bets on the first half of NFL games, thinking they can't possibly affect a bunch of football games hundreds to thousands of miles away. But then they'd find... well, that would be telling.