Poll

8 votes (33.33%)
11 votes (45.83%)
1 vote (4.16%)
1 vote (4.16%)
1 vote (4.16%)
2 votes (8.33%)

24 members have voted

MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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January 15th, 2017 at 6:55:28 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

Plus up to 14K in deductible per year. With no change in health my plan has went from less than $500 to $1615 in 4 years. This is what Trump is talking about and why you see such public opinion against it. The only ones supporting it are pansy ass rich liberals and those who are getting subsidized off of people like me.

Who do you think supports a 3x increase in premiums? That's just asinine, nobody is out there cheering for costs to go up. If you had read the article I linked, it showed that we are dramatically overspending our industrialized peers who do have national healthcare.

Here's another showing that even after accounting for increased demand (that is, more people going to the doctor), the US could save $40B by switching to a national healthcare program:
http://decisiondata.org/news/how-much-single-payer-uhc-would-cost-usa/
Look at the cost share of healthcare in the US vs. everywhere else. Our public/government spending is mostly in line with other wealthy nations, but our private spending -- what comes out of your pocket -- is completely out of whack:


Is there really public opinion against saving money and having better access to healthcare? Why?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
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January 15th, 2017 at 7:08:29 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist



Is there really public opinion against saving money and having better access to healthcare? Why?



YES, why YES there is. Why? Because most people don't trust the government to fix the problem. The assumption is they always make it worse. And when "access" comes with a cost to most to benefit a few, the choice is easy to be against it. Throw in the support of bleeding heart liberals and your side has no chance to change public opinion.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
  • Threads: 88
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January 15th, 2017 at 8:25:01 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

YES, why YES there is. Why? Because most people don't trust the government to fix the problem. The assumption is they always make it worse. And when "access" comes with a cost to most to benefit a few, the choice is easy to be against it. Throw in the support of bleeding heart liberals and your side has no chance to change public opinion.

That's a mischaracterization -- the clear public policy is "cost to a few to benefit most". But I can see it's fruitless to engage your misanthropic social views here. You will continue to hold the mistaken belief that you achieved your vast wealth and stature all by yourself, without any benefit from society, and that as a result you owe society nothing.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
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January 15th, 2017 at 8:54:28 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

That's a mischaracterization -- the clear public policy is "cost to a few to benefit most". But I can see it's fruitless to engage your misanthropic social views here. You will continue to hold the mistaken belief that you achieved your vast wealth and stature all by yourself, without any benefit from society, and that as a result you owe society nothing.



And you and your kind will continue to say "You didn't build it". How did that work out for you guys?

Keep the intellectual insults coming, it's all you guys have left to maintain your superiority in your minds. And by you guys I don't mean the majority of intelligent people on here. Most don't come across as you do, as a know it all to say the least.

Perhaps it's time you take your wealth and any family to Europe, you would fit in much better. America will do fine with or without you and your kind. And knowing that has to hurt the most.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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January 15th, 2017 at 9:40:47 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

And you and your kind will continue to say "You didn't build it". How did that work out for you guys?

Keep the intellectual insults coming, it's all you guys have left to maintain your superiority in your minds. And by you guys I don't mean the majority of intelligent people on here. Most don't come across as you do, as a know it all to say the least.

My kind? What kind is that? I'm a taxpayer, you're a taxpayer (I hope), we both built this society, just as our respective forebears did. One difference between us is that I acknowledge my social debt and you apparently don't. Another difference between us is that every time I bring up a social policy you disagree with, like universal health care, you evade the policy point and resort to a discussion of intelligence -- ironically, by suggesting that you're not as smart as I am. I made several posts referencing objective financial analyses, and in response you called me a pansy ass bleeding heart liberal know-it-all.

If you can't have a substantive debate on a policy position without attacking the person making it, why bother commenting?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
monet0412
monet0412
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
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January 15th, 2017 at 10:46:43 AM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

My health plan consists of googling symptoms and webMD: "strange rash on stomach" "why does pee burn"



I'm on the same plan. It seems That NyQuil pretty much fixes anything and helps you get a good sleep in. Now for anything else... I just ignore the pain or get some Asian girl to massage where the pain is. If the pain gets too bad I'll just buy illegal pain medication. If that doesn't help I have a .45 Cal Auto that will take care of things as I watch my last sunrise over the mountains.

Another good plan is to go get what you need in the ER and tell them to bill you. California seems to love to give out free health care and if your ambitious you can go to Canada or some other foreign land.

A few years ago my wife kept telling me she has to buy Obamacare and I told her if you give those crooks your money I am not going to be happy. She said something about the IRS! I replied... You cheat the IRS out of 3500 cash per year and your worried about not having health insurance??

I don't pay taxes but I am forced to pay all sorts of hidden taxes and fees that I can't control but as for those letters they send me telling me I owe this and that... I'll never pay that.
Last edited by: monet0412 on Jan 15, 2017
steeldco
steeldco
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
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January 15th, 2017 at 10:47:18 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Who do you think supports a 3x increase in premiums? That's just asinine, nobody is out there cheering for costs to go up. If you had read the article I linked, it showed that we are dramatically overspending our industrialized peers who do have national healthcare.

Here's another showing that even after accounting for increased demand (that is, more people going to the doctor), the US could save $40B by switching to a national healthcare program:
http://decisiondata.org/news/how-much-single-payer-uhc-would-cost-usa/
Look at the cost share of healthcare in the US vs. everywhere else. Our public/government spending is mostly in line with other wealthy nations, but our private spending -- what comes out of your pocket -- is completely out of whack:


Is there really public opinion against saving money and having better access to healthcare? Why?




So we're paying around 5% more, per GDP, than the next nearest country. It costs us $3,603.51 more per year than in the Netherlands. Find a better way to have drugs priced and normalize the fact that new drugs typically appear in the United States first, at much higher prices, and you'll have costs equivalent to other nations. It's in the drugs man. The drugs! In the meantime, it's much ado about nothing. People just need something to complain about....I guess.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
steeldco
steeldco
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
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January 15th, 2017 at 10:50:29 AM permalink
BTW, when you look at the chart, Turkey with the supposed lowest costs ends up spending 25.54% of their GDP per capita. The United States? 29.50%. It doesn't seem so bad, does it?
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
monet0412
monet0412
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 627
January 15th, 2017 at 11:04:34 AM permalink
All i know is the last time I went to a doctor he charged me 125 dollars and looked me over and gave me 7 prescriptions. Two I needed and others were things like ibuprofen which cost more than over the counter. I bought the two i needed and threw the rest of the prescriptions in the trash. The doctor told me to come back in two weeks and he will lower the price to 90 dollars. I go back and give him the dough. He looks at me and says everything looks good but come back in a week. I ask him how much will that visit cost. He says 90 dollars again....

I told him my favorite joke that goes ... knock knock... he says: who's there?

I give him the punch line: GO F&@$ YOURSELF!!!

I never go or pay for doctors anymore except those dental thieves on occasion.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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January 15th, 2017 at 12:06:29 PM permalink
You guys with no health insurance. .. do you have walk-in clinics in your area? Florida has them all over. $30 per visit or complaint. $60 for 2 on the same visit. No insurance needed. Good for sinus infections, flu, minor cuts needing stitches, prescriptions, problems short of hospitalization. And can diagnose and/or refer more serious problems, so at least you know what you're dealing with.

Take care of the small stuff as it happens, it will be easier not to have big problems develop. Ya know?

I'm aware of 50+ failed votes to repeal the ACA. Not aware of a single one to amend it into something better. It was Republican Dogma that there was to be no effort at improving it, because it was political gold to leave it disfunctional. Party before People, always.

Nobody was happy with its implementation. Nobody. It did not do what it was intended to do, due to pandering and compromise, and they knew it when they passed it. They expected to continue working on it, improving it, fixing unintended consequences, evolving it into true coverage. They never got the chance. Party before People.

Short review, as I understand it: Republican think tank.product from early 90's . Pushed by Gingrich ' s coalition in the 90's against what HRC was developing. Implemented in MA by Romney as Repub gov. Federalized and pushed by Dems, opposed by big pharmacy and big health because it cut into their profit ventures, opposed by progressives because it didn't go far enough. Nicknamed Obamacare to stigmatize it for Joe Sixpack. Obama owned it.

Now problems are surfacing that were foreseen, but the fixes were blocked. Still MUCH cheaper than without it, based on cost projections, but much more expensive than intended, because it only went halfway. Repeal without coherent replacement would be a total disaster. But Party before People leads to disaster, so if they repeal it, they will own the disaster. So, finally, political revenge, but at the expense of 10s of millions of abandoned people, most without recourse.

Madness.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

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