I put a lot of the blame on the shoulders of Tammy and her son: WTF were the two of them thinking, getting a gun and going out on the streets of Sin City, looking for the guy who said some unkind words to Tammy earlier?
When they did find the car again, and followed it: I wonder how aggressively they acted in their pursuit?
Just what "facts" haven't come out yet?
Obviously they were observed by the shooter, as it appears he followed them home and confronted them.
Nobody deserves to be shot in the head over a road rage incident, and clearly the shooter should be punished, but this could be inscribed on Tammy's tombstone: "She went looking for trouble, and she found it."
Or perhaps "As ye reap, so shall ye sow."
Quote: MrV"As ye reap, so shall ye sow."
??? Guess I didn't follow that one.
Women should have called 911 after initial incident.
Thats what I would do.
Of course gun owners have a different mentality, their mentality is you mess with me, I have a gun, I will mess with you.
Later Tammy determined to get in herr vehicle and drive around town searching for the fellow who said the unkind words.
Why?
What possible good could come of it?
Her son joined her, and he was packing a gun: why?
He said he did it to protect his family.
Really?
Protect them from what, exactly?
There was no threat: the incident was over long before.
If his goal really was to protect them, he'd have made certain they stayed at home, out of harm's way.
Got to wonder if the son displayed his weapon to the shooter once they spotted him in his car: it wouldn't surprise me if he did, given his clueless arrogance.
My use of the phrase "As ye reap, so shall ye sow" simply means they brought this upon themselves, going out armed and angry, looking for a confrontation.
Quote: MrVMy use of the phrase "As ye reap, so shall ye sow" simply means they brought this upon themselves, going out armed and angry, looking for a confrontation.
OK. Guess I've just always heard it said the other way around: "As ye sow, so shall ye reap."
Quote: sabreThis is why I don't engage with people looking to pick a fight over anything. Being right and/or getting the last word in isn't much consolation when a mentally unstable individual decides you're the one he's going to snap on.
^^This right here.
Almost 25 years ago I was driving from Texas on a trip home for the holidays and some guy pulled into my lane on the interstate and I had to swerve to avoid hitting him. I laid on the horn like I was getting paid for it and he hit the brakes, moved in behind me and got up about an inch from my bumper. He was obviously mad and was flipping me the bird and pointing and everything.
I'm in a minivan with my wife and son (who was only 2 at the time), and I took the very next exit hoping he would keep going but he didn't and stayed right up on me. I pulled into a fast food place trying to get away and he followed me into the parking lot. He finally broke off after I jumped back onto the access road and hit the gas all the way to the floor.
The whole experience frightened the devil out of me, because something is just not right with a person who will chase down a young family in a minivan for blowing the horn (especially when he was the one who swerved into my lane in the first place).
Crazy exists out there in this world, and you do not want it coming into your life if you can help it.
I don't, anyway.
Quote: terapinedThis is the problem with guns.
Women should have called 911 after initial incident.
Thats what I would do.
Of course gun owners have a different mentality, their mentality is you mess with me, I have a gun, I will mess with you.
This made the morning news here. Sad.
I don't think you understand most gun owners mentality at all. I live in Texas. Everybody pretty much owns at least one and most own far more. Yet, this isn't a common occurrence here at all. Quite the opposite, it is a rarity. If it was commonplace they wouldn't have been reporting on a shooting in Las Vegas on the local morning news program. Hell, they would have plenty of local shootings to report on.
Everybody I know owns firearms. Yet, I don't know a single person who has shot another human. At least, not in civilian life.
I have owned guns since childhood. Yet, in 61 years have never felt the need to hunt down somebody to exact some sort of revenge. I think I am a pretty fair representation of the mentality of most gun owners. At least, most gun owners in Texas. This isn't the wild west anymore.
No. Here, you're far more likely to be shot by the local PD than some armed citizen.
Maybe things are different where you live. But I doubt it.
This case.
If the son was not a gunowner.
Would the Mom still make the decision to get her son and go hunting for the other car escalating the situation?
I dont think so.
What she and her son did I would never ever do because I am not a gun owner.
As to blaming the death on the son. Nope. He may have escalated the situation but the other party committed murder.
Quote: texasplumr
I don't think you understand most gun owners mentality at all.
Was it the sweeping generalizations that gave it away?
Lots of idiots out there. Who goes out looking for trouble? Who asks their 22yr old armed kid to come along with? Who performs a drive-by house shooting over a traffic mishap?
I had a gun with me when my incident occurred, and I know that having to use it was absolutely the last thing I wanted to do.
Quote: terapined
As to blaming the death on the son. Nope. He may have escalated the situation but the other party committed murder.
Lots of people get charged with murder for never pulling the trigger. I've heard many times when a group of people assault or rob an individual, if the victim shoots the suspect and kills him in self defense, than the others involved in the crime are charged with murder.
This son took a gun and went hunting for the suspect. I'd make a wager they probably found the other driver and the son threatened him ad showed his gun... Which escalated the situation. I'll bet he gets charged with something, maybe not murder
Now it just sounds like stupid sh** goes down, and someone dies. Nothing new there.
Quote: BeardgoatLots of people get charged with murder for never pulling the trigger. I've heard many times when a group of people assault or rob an individual, if the victim shoots the suspect and kills him in self defense, than the others involved in the crime are charged with murder.
This son took a gun and went hunting for the suspect. I'd make a wager they probably found the other driver and the son threatened him ad showed his gun... Which escalated the situation. I'll bet he gets charged with something, maybe not murder
What you're describing is called Felony Murder. If a death occurs as a result of you committing a felony, you can be charged with felony murder.
Quote: terapined
What she and her son did I would never ever do because I am not a gun owner.
What she and her son did I would never ever do because I AM a gun owner.
Quote: DeucekiesWhat you're describing is called Felony Murder. If a death occurs as a result of you committing a felony, you can be charged with felony murder.
Thanks for setting it straight
Quote: terapinedThis is the problem with guns.
Women should have called 911 after initial incident.
Thats what I would do.
Of course gun owners have a different mentality, their mentality is you mess with me, I have a gun, I will mess with you.
Well that's a baseless statement that over 11 million law abiding CCW gun owners would disagree with. And that's just those in non Constitutional Carry states that carry, and not total overall ownership. It's amazing the streets aren't awash in blood
If that's not enough, why not go take a gander at the FBI's provided statistics, you know empirical data and all.
And again if not enough, if you need a slanted point of view, how about the VPCs own stats, that even after being cooked (and yes, their studies have been disproven) still say otherwise.
Thirty-two people a day, over 12,000 per year, are shot and killed in America.
But anyway, this whole story is Fishy.
The shooting incident happened at 11:22 pm
The story is before she and her son went out hunting for the other car, she was teaching her daughter to drive.
So she was teaching her daughter to drive at say 8 or 9pm ?????
Who teaches somebody to drive at night?
Also during the gun battle, the son looks behind him and see's his mother shot.
So the son is closer to the shooter then the Mom.
That doesn't make sense.
The son and daughter cant describe the make or model or even color, grey or silver.
The daughter is learning to drive yet honks at another driver. Just too weird. Somebody learning to drive isn't an aggressive driver hitting a horn.
That doesn't make sense, Daughter honks car, car blocks them and they have words. The daughter got an excellent look but still no make or model or accurate color. Son and Mother find the car and follow, yet the son still cant describe the car accurately.
No pictures or video in an age when all confrontations are recorded because its standard equipment on cell phones.
Drug deal gone bad?
Quote: FaceWhat she and her son did I would never ever do because I AM a gun owner.
Exactly, Face. Well said..
Quote: terapinedThe streets are awash in blood.
Thirty-two people a day, over 12,000 per year, are shot and killed in America.
Before the pro vs anti argument gains any traction, I'd like to respectfully request that posts in this thread stay on topic, specifically, the discussion about the recent incident in Vegas.
If one instead wishes to rehash the old gun debate, please pick it up in the proper thread, which you can find here.
You are correct, the original story made no sense. She put her family in danger when she went stalking. I agree with all of your other points except one.
The way the shooting went down is completely plausible. Just because someone shoots exactly where they think they are pointing doesn't guarantee a hit. Tension is high, adrenaline is flowing, the sights are doing a figure 8. The other shooter was probably aiming at the son, missed and hit the mom.
Notice the son didn't connect (I'm assuming here of course, no blood from the other side, no hospital arrest).
The shooting also depends on distance and if targets were moving.
Quote: rxwineRight now the police are in a standoff with the suspect.
In custody.
Same neighborhood as the family.
Husband was nearby during the arrest and told to back off.
I think these people know each other.
Quote: terapinedThis is the problem with guns.
Women should have called 911 after initial incident.
Thats what I would do.
Of course gun owners have a different mentality, their mentality is you mess with me, I have a gun, I will mess with you.
NO, this is the problem with PEOPLE. Some people are shall we say irresponsible, and immature, playing out scenarios and roles.
I respectfully disagree.
Walking to the old Western Casino from the El Cortez, the wager was even-money on seeing a shirtless guy getting arrested or getting solicited for drugs or sex.
Any independent witnesses, other than family or occupants of the shooter's car?
The kid, if he's smart, will do what I suspect OJ did after knifing Nicole and Goldman: talk to a sharp lawyer who can tell him how to try to lie his way out of it, and then hire a new lawyer who blithely allows him to tell his tale.
Quote: MrVI wonder if the son-of-a-suicide shooter will argue that the Meyers boy shot first?
Any independent witnesses, other than family or occupants of the shooter's car?
The kid, if he's smart, will do what I suspect OJ did after knifing Nicole and Goldman: talk to a sharp lawyer who can tell him how to try to lie his way out of it, and then hire a new lawyer who blithely allows him to tell his tale.
The juice was rich and well connected, this kid is likely getting a public pretender/expert plea bargainer. He is screwed.
Quote: MrVI wonder if the son-of-a-suicide shooter will argue that the Meyers boy shot first?
Any independent witnesses, other than family or occupants of the shooter's car?
The kid, if he's smart, will do what I suspect OJ did after knifing Nicole and Goldman: talk to a sharp lawyer who can tell him how to try to lie his way out of it, and then hire a new lawyer who blithely allows him to tell his tale.
My understanding is this is not the shooter.
Shooter was described as 6-foot, 180-pound white man in his mid-20s with dirty blond hair in a spiked style
This was an occupant in a car.
This a teen, maybe 5 8 and 130 pounds.
Kid does not own a car.
Family knows him yet he was not arrested immediately being in the car.
Mother that was killed knows this teen well.
This whole story is still real fishy.
After the road rage incident, they went straight to this kids house then drove around the neighborhood.
This story is still weird.
edit added
It gets weider, the husband went to this teens house yesterday.
Originally the story was the gun battle was outside the Mom's home.
There is a new story out there that the gun battle was in a different location.
After the gun battle, Mom and son headed home unknowingly being followed by shooter that finished off Mom in front of her home.
Another weird thing, its 1122pm at night. When 2 people get home that late, both exit the vehicle and go into a home. That late at night, why did the mom stay in the vehicle while the son goes in.
Very Very weird.
But to hear him tell it, it sounds like he thought it was gang-related.
Like I suspected, he claims he shot after the Meyers boy brandished a firearm at him; hello, self defense.
This case is growing wackier by the minute.
I wonder if the Meyers kid also has a gang affiliation?
Quote: MrVOK, so now the shooter admits he shot her, in fact he bragged to friends.
But to hear him tell it, it sounds like he thought it was gang-related.
Like I suspected, he claims he shot after the Meyers boy brandished a firearm at him; hello, self defense.
This case is growing wackier by the minute.
I wonder if the Meyers kid also has a gang affiliation?
He plead not guilty yesterday.
"As authorities investigate the slaying, they continue to search for another man thought to be the driver of the car Nowsch was riding in".
Yeah, I would take THAT into account during the sentencing.
So I am curious about this. As there was a lot of nonsense said about legal gun-owners earlier.
Does anyone know if his gun was legally owned?
If so by him or somebody else? (I can't find anything about this in the article).
Quote: JohnnyQSo clearly the little sh*% isn't cooperating ( ? ):
Of course not, he has a lawyer.
Any good lawyer is not going to help the other side.
There are so many questions regarding what went down, the lawyer may feel he has a good case.
(unlike the Hernandez case where the lawyers are grasping at any kind straw to bring in doubt. The latest in that case shows a video of Hernandez walking into his house after the murder with a glock. The defense shows an almost identical pellet gun and say he could have painted the bright orange end black outside then walked in with a pellet gun instead lol)
This is one of those cases where a lawyer may allow him to testify.
I can see it now, He will claim the other side were the aggressors and were hunting him down with a gun. Self defense. He was scared of them. It was him or them.
Who knows what actually went down?
Quote: RSSome c*ck sucker sh*t bag stole my parking spot the other day at The Orleans. He didn't understand what, "You're lucky I'm a nice person" means.
I should'a keyed his car, shouldn't I have?
In what way did you consider the parking spot yours?
If I don't get a close spot, I rationalize it by thinking I need the walking exercise anyway.
Quote: RSSome c*ck sucker sh*t bag stole my parking spot the other day at The Orleans. He didn't understand what, "You're lucky I'm a nice person" means.
I should'a keyed his car, shouldn't I have?
RS needs a little TOWANDA!
Quote: terapined
In what way did you consider the parking spot yours?
If I don't get a close spot, I rationalize it by thinking I need the walking exercise anyway.
I was driving down the aisle (is that what it's called? Heh), and I saw a car with it's reverse lights on, so I stopped an appropriate distance away with my blinker on, letting them out, yada yada ya. No cars behind me and no cars facing me at this time either. Just me and the car backing out. It backs out slowly, and 2 other cars come from the other end towards me. The first one goes on by, and the second one snaked right in.
After I called the guy out on it, he said something like "I did what I had to do."
Quote: RSSome c*ck sucker sh*t bag stole my parking spot the other day at The Orleans. He didn't understand what, "You're lucky I'm a nice person" means.
I should'a keyed his car, shouldn't I have?
Should've drove a miata I never have this problem.
This is totally wrong, and I'm appalled. Everyone knows the appropriate Las Vegas community consensus response to this by mature thinking adults is to wait until he's inside zoning out on a Beverly Hillbillies slot machine or stuffing his face with cheeboogers or rolling gutterballs, and discretely remove a few lug-nuts.Quote: RSI should'a keyed his car, shouldn't I have?
Quote: DrawingDeadThis is totally wrong, and I'm appalled. Everyone knows the appropriate Las Vegas community consensus response to this by mature thinking adults is to wait until he's inside zoning out on a Beverly Hillbillies slot machine or stuffing his face with cheeboogers or rolling gutterballs, and discretely remove a few lug-nuts.Quote: RSI should'a keyed his car, shouldn't I have?
Heh, did you ever have a run-in with Sam Kinison?
Quote: djatcQuote: RSSome c*ck sucker sh*t bag stole my parking spot the other day at The Orleans. He didn't understand what, "You're lucky I'm a nice person" means.
I should'a keyed his car, shouldn't I have?
Should've drove a miata I never have this problem.
Quote: RSI was driving down the aisle (is that what it's called? Heh), and I saw a car with it's reverse lights on, so I stopped an appropriate distance away with my blinker on, letting them out, yada yada ya. No cars behind me and no cars facing me at this time either. Just me and the car backing out. It backs out slowly, and 2 other cars come from the other end towards me. The first one goes on by, and the second one snaked right in.
After I called the guy out on it, he said something like "I did what I had to do."
This reminds me of a particularly violent moment I had in a parking lot. I wish I could remember where or when. Actually, when is in the last 10 years. Where is WA state. I stole a parking spot from someone in the manner described. Said person was livid. I tried to ignore it for a bit. Windows rolled up, just sit there. But he was pounding on my window. Said, this was my spot.
I guess I broke the social contract, and this guy was not having it. In retrospect, he was right. I gave in; backed out and went somewhere else.
Damn, I wish I could remember when/where exactly this happened. I feel like a douche now.
I wouldn't do that these days. But, I feel like that guy was unstable. Just sayin'. Not sayin'.