boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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January 30th, 2011 at 8:42:11 AM permalink
Hmmm...

The ILS runway for landing at Nellis is 3R. The approach path is 26 degrees. At 5.6 NM, the prescribed height is 3200 msl and at 8NM it's 3900 msl. The Stratosphere is at least one mile to the west of the approach path at 3189 msl. The flight path would take it (roughly) over the intersection of Harmon and Las Vegas Boulevard, over the MonteCarlo and the Signature at MGM Grand, so I am not sure whether this would be a factor.

For McCarran, planes taking off to the North using one departure pattern are to climb to 2681 MSL (500 feet), then take a sharp left to intersect a waypoint named BESSY. At 180 knots at a lift of 1800 ft/minutes, that turn would take place about 20 seconds into the flight at which point the plane is 3 miles north of the runway. This routing takes it pretty much over the properties just north of the Wynn (Echelon / Fountainebleau) and perhaps close enough to the Stratosphere. When we were staying at the Wynn last year, we saw a bunch of planes using this departure path. Since the instruction to turn left to intersect the waypoint is dependent on height and not velocity, planes would turn left at different points. That might make the Stratosphere come into play which is why it was limited in height.

For the Crown (which was the 1800 foot model proposed on the previous page), I believe that the FAA capped it at 1,064 feet (as of late 2007) and that height would be right in the flight path as described in the previous paragraph for that particular departure route.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
PaulEWog
PaulEWog
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January 30th, 2011 at 9:02:16 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear


Any chance that...

A) The FAA restricting the Stratosphere height was urban legend, and/or



On the TV show "Build it Bigger" they did an episode on City Center and said the FAA had given them a height restriction of 600 feet.

At Vegastodayandtomorrow.com they said on 10/24/07: Today, the Federal Aviation Administration denied the 1,888-foot Crown Las Vegas tower. They also said that on 12/6/07 the county and FAA approved it at 1,064 feet.

So, I don't have an answer for you, but it would appear they have different height restrictions based on where the property is.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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January 31st, 2011 at 4:14:44 PM permalink
Quote: PaulEWog

On the TV show "Build it Bigger" they did an episode on City Center and said the FAA had given them a height restriction of 600 feet.

At Vegastodayandtomorrow.com they said on 10/24/07: Today, the Federal Aviation Administration denied the 1,888-foot Crown Las Vegas tower. They also said that on 12/6/07 the county and FAA approved it at 1,064 feet.

So, I don't have an answer for you, but it would appear they have different height restrictions based on where the property is.



Is there anyplace near Las Vegas to build a 2,000 ft tower? Just having something that high sticking up in the middle of the flat desert is asking for trouble. However, it would be awesome to have the world's tallest building somewhere in the U.S. of A. I suggest moving the airport. There is still alot of desert south of the M, and the cabbies could use the additional fares.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
boymimbo
boymimbo
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January 31st, 2011 at 6:15:03 PM permalink
Huh. The world's tallest building is now over 2,700 feet tall and there is absolutely no chance that Vegas would be able to support something that tall or large given the market conditions today or in the foreseeable future for that matter. Let's get the Echelon and Fontainebleau completed first without the strip north of the Wynn and Downtown imploding first, then you can talk about another major project.

The strip will never be able to house anything taller than the Stratosphere. The geometry of Nelles and McCarren means that some flight traffic will always need to travel over the Strip during certain wind conditions. The southern strip is subject to incoming flights to Nelles and the northern strip is subject to outbound flights from McCarran.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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January 31st, 2011 at 7:01:50 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Huh. The world's tallest building is now over 2,700 feet tall and there is absolutely no chance that Vegas would be able to support something that tall or large given the market conditions today or in the foreseeable future for that matter. Let's get the Echelon and Fontainebleau completed first without the strip north of the Wynn and Downtown imploding first, then you can talk about another major project.

The strip will never be able to house anything taller than the Stratosphere. The geometry of Nelles and McCarren means that some flight traffic will always need to travel over the Strip during certain wind conditions. The southern strip is subject to incoming flights to Nelles and the northern strip is subject to outbound flights from McCarran.



Build it and they will come...




Hopefully, not falling out of sky in flaming balls of jet fuel.... Thanks for the details boymimbo.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
PaulEWog
PaulEWog
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February 1st, 2011 at 3:50:49 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

I suggest moving the airport. There is still alot of desert south of the M, and the cabbies could use the additional fares.



There is a plan to open a new airport in Ivanpah, about 30 miles south of the current airport between Jean and Primm. It was originally scheduled to open in 2017, but it is now on hold. However, I don't believe the plan was to close McCarran so it wouldn't effect height restrictions.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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May 19th, 2011 at 3:33:18 PM permalink
Quote: PaulEWog

However, I don't believe the plan was to close McCarran so it wouldn't effect height restrictions.



Paul is correct, the plan is not to close McCarran. However, as I have said earlier only that National government of USA in the Case of Dulles Airport, and the National government of Canada, in the case of Montreal has someone tried to build a reliever airport from scratch. In the case of Dulles Airport outside of Washington DC, it took 20 years to become profitable. In the case of Montreal the reliever airport was a decades long disaster which was eventually closed.

It is not possible to build a reliever airport from the ground up without more cash than any municipality can raise. You either build the new airport and close the old one (Denver and Austin) or you take an airport that has been operating for decades and increase it's capability (Ontario in the Los Angeles basin). If you try to build one from scratch you need to support it for at least a decade until it has enough traffic to support itself.

While brand new reliever airports do not make sound financial sense, there is serious questions about the financial viability of supertall skyscrapers. Most of them are relative disasters. The Empire State Building, despite it's fame, took decades to be profitable. The Burj Khalifi is a well concealed catastrophe. The question is why would you pay double the price of an apartment, with the danger of uncontrolled condominium fees, when you can get an equally luxurious apartment for half the price with a view of the Burj Khalifi?

Video of opening Cermony of Burj Khalifi
cclub79
cclub79
Joined: Dec 16, 2009
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May 19th, 2011 at 4:40:34 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

For example, the spire on the Empire State Building was designed as a mooring point for dirigibles. (Although I shudder to think of what mechanism would be used to get from the gondola to the building...)



Watch the TV Show Fringe and you'll see the trip from the Zeppelin down to the "Sky Lobby" is pretty painless at the Empire State Building in the Alt Universe.

(By the way, if you liked Lost, you should do yourself a favor and give Fringe a try. The first season was spotty, but it has become one of my favorites...)
Toes14
Toes14
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May 19th, 2011 at 6:29:28 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Washington DC is the only American city completely without a substantial high rise. The tallest commercial building is only 12 stories, and the tallest residential building is only 14 stories. Historic buildings do not rise higher than 329'.



There is an unofficial rule in St. Louis that no buildings exceed 600', so they don't top the Gateway Arch at 630'.
"Bite my Glorious Golden Ass!" - Bender Bending Rodriguez
pacomartin
pacomartin
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May 19th, 2011 at 6:56:12 PM permalink
Quote: Toes14

There is an unofficial rule in St. Louis that no buildings exceed 600', so they don't top the Gateway Arch at 630'.



There was also an unofficial rule in Philadelphia that no buildings would exceed William Penn's hat on City Hall at 547 feet. City Hall is possibly one of the greatest buildings of post civil war 19th century America. The limit held until 1987 when it was a new skyscraper was built.

From March 1987 construction of the One Liberty Place skyscraper until October 29, 2008 when the Philadelphia Phillies won the 2008 World Series the city of Philadelphia lost all sports championships. It became known as "The Curse of Billy Penn" for building higher than his hat.

Comcast (one of the largest Fortune 500 companies in the Philadelphia area) took credit for breaking the curse when they put a small tourist statue of William Penn on top of their building the year before. The Comcast building had just been topped out as the tallest building in Philadelphia (still under 1000').

Curse of Billy Penn Comcast commercial


San Diego prohibits buildings above 500' because of the airport, but they still manage to squeeze 43 stories into one residential building. No other city besides Washington DC keeps all buildings to 12-14 stories.


Given the worldwide rush to build high-rises, the USA has been relatively reserved, building only 8 buildings over 800' since 9-11.

870' New York by Gehry   New York City   { 76 floors} 2011  
818' The Legacy at Millennium Park   Chicago    { 73 } 2010  
859' Aqua   Chicago   { 86 } 2009  
1200' Bank of America Tower   New York City    { 55 } 2009  
1389' Trump International Hotel & Tower   Chicago   { 98 } 2009  
974' Comcast Center   Philadelphia   { 57 } 2008  
1046' New York Times Tower   New York City    { 52 } 2007  
806' Bloomberg Tower   New York City   { 54 } 2005  

There are 5 more under construction in NYC including 2 in the WTC

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