RonC
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April 5th, 2014 at 4:51:59 AM permalink
"The resignation of Mozilla's CEO amid outrage that he supported an anti-gay marriage campaign is prompting concerns about how Silicon Valley's strongly liberal culture might quash the very openness that is at the region's foundation."

"Mozilla believes both in equality and freedom of speech," Baker said. "Equality is necessary for meaningful speech. And you need free speech to fight for equality. Figuring out how to stand for both at the same time can be hard."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/04/mozilla-ceo-resignation-free-speech/7328759/

He gave $1,000 to a campaign against allowing gay marriage. A long time ago--at a time close to when our President said he was against gay marriage!

It would be easy to dismiss this as a "corporate decision" but liberals have always accused conservatives of using that as an excuse, so turnaround is fair play.

To me, it is interesting that "openness" is okay when it is related to some things but it isn't okay to oppose something that the people who believe in said "openness" are for. This isn't a "gay marriage" thread--this thread is more about how aggressive activism influences decisions and whether or not it is a good thing.
AZDuffman
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April 5th, 2014 at 5:26:43 AM permalink
I have said it many times, homosexuals demand tolerance but have none. Chick-Fil-A was an example, this is another example.

This has been going on for years. Started on college campuses, at first they banned a few words. Over time they banned thought. Over more time it became that not only that you could not speak your own thoughts but you had to be a cheerleader for the "correct" thoughts.

To be fair it is not just the homophile agenda. If you do not buy the global-warming hoax you are out. If you are not for gun control you are out. If you are not pro-abortion you are out. It self-replicates itself. People who do not hold these views are either never promoted, outright fired as is the case here, or look around and decide they cannot work and live around all this and leave.

Get an owner who is activist the other way and they are treated like, well just look at Koch Industries and how they are treated.

I wonder how their support for Mrs. Bill Clinton will be during her campaign since she "was there" when DOMA was signed?
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timberjim
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April 5th, 2014 at 6:19:01 AM permalink
My favorite was the gay activists that said that anyone that supported views they didn't agree with needed to be "purged". Is this Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia or what?

FREE SPEECH FOR ONLY THOSE PEOPLE THAT AGREE WITH ME. This is tolerance and fairness in their minds.
endermike
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April 5th, 2014 at 6:38:05 AM permalink
AZD, when was the last time you were on a college campus?
AZDuffman
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April 5th, 2014 at 7:16:22 AM permalink
Quote: endermike

AZD, when was the last time you were on a college campus?



If you want to include the welding class I just had it would be about 3 weeks ago, why do you ask?
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Boz
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April 5th, 2014 at 7:34:04 AM permalink
Simple answer....YES, it has gone too far.
endermike
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April 5th, 2014 at 7:51:26 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

If you want to include the welding class I just had it would be about 3 weeks ago, why do you ask?

Your posts smack of a strong anti-intellectual vibe. Since you have said before that you trust your on experiences over other sources I was hoping I could suggest that you are just getting a bit unlucky in you experiences.

I can tell you there is a strong left leaning on many college/university campuses, however the idea that no conservative speech is allowed is simply false. The speech isn't popular on many campuses (but neither is Andrew Sullivan at a Southern Baptist convention), but that does not mean it is not allowed or listened to.
Twirdman
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April 5th, 2014 at 8:08:20 AM permalink
Quote: endermike

Your posts smack of a strong anti-intellectual vibe. Since you have said before that you trust your on experiences over other sources I was hoping I could suggest that you are just getting a bit unlucky in you experiences.

I can tell you there is a strong left leaning on many college/university campuses, however the idea that no conservative speech is allowed is simply false. The speech isn't popular on many campuses (but neither is Andrew Sullivan at a Southern Baptist convention), but that does not mean it is not allowed or listened to.



Yeah I went to Davis for my undergrad degree and we are a very liberal university yet there were plenty of street preachers and other vile people who came to university campus. Right now I am in UF and you have plenty of disturbing pro-life posters with protesters along with a few other conservative people talking and totally allowed. Yeah most people think they are total idiots and avoid them in any way possible but there is no banning of the.

Again with this case though the former CEO of Mozilla he is completely free to say whatever he wants but that does not mean a multimillion dollar corporation has to have him as CEO. A company does a cost benefit analyze and when they did they found that it wasn't worth keeping him as CEO because he would potentially cost more business than his acumen could make up for.
AZDuffman
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April 5th, 2014 at 8:16:03 AM permalink
Quote: endermike

Your posts smack of a strong anti-intellectual vibe. Since you have said before that you trust your on experiences over other sources I was hoping I could suggest that you are just getting a bit unlucky in you experiences.

I can tell you there is a strong left leaning on many college/university campuses, however the idea that no conservative speech is allowed is simply false. The speech isn't popular on many campuses (but neither is Andrew Sullivan at a Southern Baptist convention), but that does not mean it is not allowed or listened to.



Show me a person who trusts "other sources over their own experiences" and I will show you a non-thinking person who is easily played.

No obviously, it is not that there is "no conservative speech allowed on college campuses." But on most the left tries in every way possible. Look at what happens when a conservative comes to speak, they are sometimes even physically attacked. Try to get funds for a group that has a charter of traditional marriage and family values and see what happens. Heck, Christian groups have been told to admit atheists of be booted off campus and no recognition from the school!

Not every left-wing professor I had squelched speech in their classroom. In fact the farthest left one I ever had, and you had to see this guy to believe him, was quite the opposite. I still remember the day he came in and said he had a quote for discussion. I don't remember the issue, but he points right at me and said, "I want to hear from *you* first." (emphasis his.) I think he enjoyed someone stirring up the class and I know he didn't like yes-men who agreed with him for a grade. But he is not the norm, like I said you had to see him to believe him. If you saw him on the street you would offer him a bowl of soup.

Critical thinkers know hot to tell the difference of when something or someone says "all" if it means "literally all," "almost always" or "generally speaking all." As this board if generally intelligent, critical thinkers I should think all will understand what I am trying to convey.
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RonC
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April 5th, 2014 at 8:29:00 AM permalink
Quote: Twirdman

Again with this case though the former CEO of Mozilla he is completely free to say whatever he wants but that does not mean a multimillion dollar corporation has to have him as CEO. A company does a cost benefit analyze and when they did they found that it wasn't worth keeping him as CEO because he would potentially cost more business than his acumen could make up for.



I doubt that Mozilla did a cost benefit analysis at all. They reacted to actions taken by a group of radical protesters--people who want people to lose things because they oppose their position. Instead of just saying that his position was not the position of the corporation, they went overboard. They have the right to do so; it is clearly a huge overreaction to a donation from long ago.

Will it be okay for these same people type of people to go after you or me because we have differing opinions? That is a chilling thought--it is the thought police--that both sides should fight against. This group got the names and addresses of those who opposed their position. Using that information to attack and individual is clearly going too far. You can't have free speech if you allow it to be stifled so easily. I suspect that it is okay for many in this instance but, were the shoe on the other foot, they'd be squealing louder than a stuck pig!!
24Bingo
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April 5th, 2014 at 8:38:04 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Show me a person who trusts "other sources over their own experiences" and I will show you a non-thinking person who is easily played.



Next up: AZD's explanation that velocities obviously add, time is clearly universal, the ordinary laws of mechanics can be scaled downwards indefinitely, banker can't possibly come 23 times in a row, and .999... is not 1, you non-thinking people.

(Not that he's not right about right-wing speakers being chased off campuses - although I'm not sure it's as much a problem at the faculty level as he seems to think - it's just this statement is clearly ridiculous.)
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
Boz
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April 5th, 2014 at 8:39:54 AM permalink
Quote: Twirdman

Yeah I went to Davis for my undergrad degree and we are a very liberal university yet there were plenty of street preachers and other vile people who came to university campus. Right now I am in UF and you have plenty of disturbing pro-life posters with protesters along with a few other conservative people talking and totally allowed. Yeah most people think they are total idiots and avoid them in any way possible but there is no banning of the.

Again with this case though the former CEO of Mozilla he is completely free to say whatever he wants but that does not mean a multimillion dollar corporation has to have him as CEO. A company does a cost benefit analyze and when they did they found that it wasn't worth keeping him as CEO because he would potentially cost more business than his acumen could make up for.




And how has that liberalism worked out in the past 50 years for the groups that blindly vote for your party year after year?
endermike
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April 5th, 2014 at 9:01:48 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Show me a person who trusts "other sources over their own experiences" and I will show you a non-thinking person who is easily played.

Show me a person who trusts "their own experience over other sources" and I will show you a person who struggles with the gamblers fallacy, the Monty Hall problem, or what good statistical analysis does. Obvuiously the good judges are those who can balance the two.

Quote: AZDuffman

No obviously, it is not that there is "no conservative speech allowed on college campuses." But on most the left tries in every way possible. Look at what happens when a conservative comes to speak, they are sometimes even physically attacked. Try to get funds for a group that has a charter of traditional marriage and family values and see what happens. Heck, Christian groups have been told to admit atheists of be booted off campus and no recognition from the school!

For every one case on an overreacting leftist there are a hundred folks who treat everyone with respect. On my campuses there has been a group which gets to setup graphic photos of aborted fetuses right outside the dining halls (with the intent to further a pro-life cause). There is much argument, disdain, discussion, and disapproval, but they still get to do their setup without interference. They get to try to shove pamphlets in folks hands and engage students who are just trying to get from A to B. You wouldn't want all conservatives judged by Voters Outreach of America or the chicanery down in Florida in 2012.

Quote: AZDuffman

Not every left-wing professor I had squelched speech in their classroom. In fact the farthest left one I ever had, and you had to see this guy to believe him, was quite the opposite. I still remember the day he came in and said he had a quote for discussion. I don't remember the issue, but he points right at me and said, "I want to hear from *you* first." (emphasis his.) I think he enjoyed someone stirring up the class and I know he didn't like yes-men who agreed with him for a grade. But he is not the norm, like I said you had to see him to believe him. If you saw him on the street you would offer him a bowl of soup.

Haha. He sounds like a good prof. He reminds me of a couple of my favorites over the years. There was this one ethics professor, his class should have been named Devil's Advocate 101. Suffice to say if his class had been moderated by the standards of WoV, there would have been A LOT of suspensions. I loved that guy (I still email him from time to time).

edit:a word I left out
reno
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April 5th, 2014 at 9:08:19 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

A long time ago--at a time close to when our President said he was against gay marriage!



Exactly. And by passing DOMA, the Clintons have done far more to harm gay rights than Mr. Eich ever did; so will the liberals who cheered Eich's resignation be voting for Hillary in 2016?
RonC
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April 5th, 2014 at 9:09:10 AM permalink
"I think there is a gay mafia," Maher said. "I think if you cross them, you do get whacked."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/04/04/bill_maher_there_is_a_gay_mafia_if_you_cross_them_you_do_get_whacked.html

Whether he meant it or it was tongue-in-cheek, is that what we need?
AZDuffman
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April 5th, 2014 at 9:12:08 AM permalink
Quote: 24Bingo

Next up: AZD's explanation that velocities obviously add, time is clearly universal, the ordinary laws of mechanics can be scaled downwards indefinitely, banker can't possibly come 23 times in a row, and .999... is not 1, you non-thinking people.

(Not that he's not right about right-wing speakers being chased off campuses - although I'm not sure it's as much a problem at the faculty level as he seems to think - it's just this statement is clearly ridiculous.)



*sigh*

Lets say you and I sit outside a little cafe most days and there is a place across the street with a balcony about 10 feet up. It is a crazy coffee house where people bet if they can jump off. Over a week we see 10 people jump off and each breaks their ankle. Now some guy comes up and explains how you can jump off that balcony and bend your legs in x a way and you will land just fine. He shows what your velocity will be and a dozen reasons why it will work. He has a doctorate in physics. He asks if you want to try it out.

Do you say "sounds right, I'll try it!' Or do you say, "No way, I'll break my ankle."

You see, a thinking person knows when you trust something and when you trust your own experiences. I know a die has 6 sides and I know with proper randomization it has a 1/6 chance of hitting any specific number. This is provable over and over in a short time frame, and absent dice control is not in dispute.

OTOH, there are things that science claims they have proven but in reality cannot. Global Warming being the perfect example. I have stated my reasons for disbelief before and will now add that I have learned humans are not responsible for even 1/20 of CO2 produced on earth. Global Warming cannot be proven in a short time with a control group. So for that I trust my own experiences.

You see, to me the "listen to the scientists" thing is the most anti-intellectual thing of all. I have seen "experts" be wrong on so many things in life I have learned to use your common sense first of all. And I have learned to trust those in the "real world" far more than those crammed into a university or government center who are not held to results nearly as much if at all.

So if you or anybody here want to trust "other sources" please feel free. Just don't ask me to help out when it goes bad and all you can say is that someone else said it should be so.
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SOOPOO
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April 5th, 2014 at 9:24:52 AM permalink
Quote: Twirdman


Right now I am in UF

Again with this case though the former CEO of Mozilla he is completely free to say whatever he wants but that does not mean a multimillion dollar corporation has to have him as CEO. A company does a cost benefit analyze and when they did they found that it wasn't worth keeping him as CEO because he would potentially cost more business than his acumen could make up for.



If the CEO of Coke came out and said he was gay, it would be ok for you if Coke summarily fired him because 'he would potentially cost more business than his acumen could make up for?"

By the way, by UF do you mean Gainsville, Florida?
endermike
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April 5th, 2014 at 9:25:36 AM permalink
AZD, just because the guy sitting next to you has a "winning system" which you see winning at the casino, don't follow his lead. Or at least don't ask me to help out when it goes bad and all you can say is that "my personal experience said it should be so."
AZDuffman
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April 5th, 2014 at 9:36:46 AM permalink
Quote: endermike

AZD, just because the guy sitting next to you has a "winning system" which you see winning at the casino, don't follow his lead. Or at least don't ask me to help out when it goes bad and all you can say is that "my personal experience said it should be so."



Since my personal experience is that you cannot have a winning system this is unlikely to happen. As I have said here before, I have seen a table almost cleared out clear it back from the players in 10 minutes.

OTOH, feel free to ignore yours and listen to other sources. The world needs sheep.
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Twirdman
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April 5th, 2014 at 9:37:49 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

If the CEO of Coke came out and said he was gay, it would be ok for you if Coke summarily fired him because 'he would potentially cost more business than his acumen could make up for?"

By the way, by UF do you mean Gainsville, Florida?



Yeah Gainesville I'm working on my PhD in math there right now.

Technically the gay one is a bit of a sticky wicket because in some states being gay is a protected class so arguably they would be breaking the law depending on which state they are in so I will go with a case definitely legal say Cokes CEO came out in favor of Gay rights and donated heavily to a gay rights cause. This is closer anyone since Mozilla CEO was not fired for being straight he was fired for actions he took. In that case if Coke decided to fire him they are well within their rights to do so. I would be against their decision and probably would buy less Coke products, already don't buy many since soda machine on campus are pepsi and I buy generic at home, but that is all I would do. Just as people have an option to boycott Mozilla if they disagree with current CEO forced resignation.
AZDuffman
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April 5th, 2014 at 9:42:05 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

"I think there is a gay mafia," Maher said. "I think if you cross them, you do get whacked."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/04/04/bill_maher_there_is_a_gay_mafia_if_you_cross_them_you_do_get_whacked.html

Whether he meant it or it was tongue-in-cheek, is that what we need?



If by "what we need" you mean "do we need someone saying it" I say yes, we do. Same as we need someone calling out the mafia tactics of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, NOW, and others.
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endermike
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April 5th, 2014 at 9:47:28 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

OTOH, feel free to ignore yours and listen to other sources. The world needs sheep.

Call me whatever you want. I understand how to do peer review and calculate p-values. If you don't trust science I can't help you, best of luck. On your way out, turn in your GPS (relativity is required for those to work), vaccines (statistics are need to prove those are effective), and the ability to build skyscrapers (engineering and materials science). Enjoy living in the 14th century (for 40-60 harsh years if you are lucky).
kenarman
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April 5th, 2014 at 9:51:00 AM permalink
Now every left leaning group that doesn't get there way presents the following arguments.

We need a "clear and transparent process" to decide the outcome.

We need a government enquiry since we don't trust the sources present at the enquiry.

We need to negotiate an outcome.

and the kicker

We didn't have any meaningfull negotiation because we didn't get the outcome we wanted.
Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
AZDuffman
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April 5th, 2014 at 9:55:28 AM permalink
Quote: endermike

Call me whatever you want. I understand how to do peer review and calculate p-values. If you don't trust science I can't help you, best of luck. On your way out, turn in your GPS (relativity is required for those to work), vaccines (statistics are need to prove those are effective), and the ability to build skyscrapers (engineering and materials science). Enjoy living in the 14th century (for 40-60 harsh years if you are lucky).



Not sure you got the idea that I don't trust science at all. What I have stated is I will not listen blindly to it when it goes against the experiences and logic I have seen (eg: so-called global warming.) Please read closer next time. Or else at least please refrain from suggesting that anyone who does not believe what they are told hook, line, and sinker is some kind of fool.
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endermike
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April 5th, 2014 at 10:05:04 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Not sure you got the idea that I don't trust science at all. What I have stated is I will not listen blindly to it when it goes against the experiences and logic I have seen (eg: so-called global warming.) Please read closer next time. Or else at least please refrain from suggesting that anyone who does not believe what they are told hook, line, and sinker is some kind of fool.

And my point is there are large bits of science which can not be confirmed at intuition (relativity for example). Please read closer next time. Or at least please refraim from suggesting that anyone who questions what their own experience doesn't use (have) common sense.
AZDuffman
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April 5th, 2014 at 10:17:06 AM permalink
Quote: endermike

And my point is there are large bits of science which can not be confirmed at intuition (relativity for example). Please read closer next time. Or at least please refraim from suggesting that anyone who questions what their own experience doesn't use (have) common sense.



I'm not sure when I questioned relativity or even brought it up. Looking back at the thread you and not me brought up questioning science. I have made the simple statement that I am going to trust my own experiences over unproven science, the best example being global warming for which I have given basis of questioning over, over, and over here.

Looking back at this entire thread I see that all I did was discuss some of the history of PC Speech Codes on college campuses and you then drove it to my "questioning science." If you wish to discuss science vs common sense there is a thread over at DT that is doing just that. I am involved there and will be happy to continue. Please do not continue the hijack here and lets return to topic.
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RonC
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April 5th, 2014 at 11:23:48 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

"I think there is a gay mafia," Maher said. "I think if you cross them, you do get whacked."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/04/04/bill_maher_there_is_a_gay_mafia_if_you_cross_them_you_do_get_whacked.html

Whether he meant it or it was tongue-in-cheek, is that what we need?



Quote: AZDuffman

If by "what we need" you mean "do we need someone saying it" I say yes, we do. Same as we need someone calling out the mafia tactics of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, NOW, and others.



I'm sorry...I was unclear. Are we willing to accept a gay, straight, black, white, yellow, religious, etc. mafia who digs in not to find corruption or anything of that sort...but to find out who donated to what organization and then pressure the organization to rid themselves of someone simply based on a stand taken, not even apparently all that loudly (was he campaigning against gay marriage openly that we know of?)????

It is unacceptable to fire someone because they are gay. It is unacceptable to fire someone because they said something that gays oppose. It is acceptable to fire them if they spend work time promoting personal positions that oppose the corporation's position or if they do it under the name of the corporation.
Twirdman
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April 5th, 2014 at 11:33:39 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

I

It is unacceptable to fire someone because they are gay. It is unacceptable to fire someone because they said something that gays oppose. It is acceptable to fire them if they spend work time promoting personal positions that oppose the corporation's position or if they do it under the name of the corporation.



Again these two things are not comparable. Being gay is something someone is supporting a cause is something they do. The former CEO wasn't forced to resign because he was straight, which would be the direct analog of firing someone because they are gay.


Now you can say it is wrong they fired him for supporting anti-gay causes just like it would be wrong to fire someone for supporting pro gay cause but it is not the same as firing someone for being gay.
RonC
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April 5th, 2014 at 11:38:48 AM permalink
Quote: Twirdman

Again these two things are not comparable. Being gay is something someone is supporting a cause is something they do. The former CEO wasn't forced to resign because he was straight, which would be the direct analog of firing someone because they are gay.

Now you can say it is wrong they fired him for supporting anti-gay causes just like it would be wrong to fire someone for supporting pro gay cause but it is not the same as firing someone for being gay.



I'm sorry, but I wasn't looking to compare being gay to being against a gay position--there are more than few things that are unacceptable and both of my examples are unacceptable, as is your added example. It isn't a complete list, just a couple of things that are unacceptable. No need to look at the words for a deeper meaning.
endermike
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April 5th, 2014 at 11:40:57 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I'm not sure when I questioned relativity or even brought it up. Looking back at the thread you and not me brought up questioning science. I have made the simple statement that I am going to trust my own experiences over unproven science, the best example being global warming for which I have given basis of questioning over, over, and over here.

Looking back at this entire thread I see that all I did was discuss some of the history of PC Speech Codes on college campuses and you then drove it to my "questioning science." If you wish to discuss science vs common sense there is a thread over at DT that is doing just that. I am involved there and will be happy to continue. Please do not continue the hijack here and lets return to topic.

Way back when:
Your first post in this thread included "This has been going on for years. Started on college campuses, at first they banned a few words. Over time they banned thought. Over more time it became that not only that you could not speak your own thoughts but you had to be a cheerleader for the 'correct' thoughts."
I said your posts smack of a strong anti-intellectual vibe. I then said that conservative speech oppression on campuses is not nearly as bad as you portray it.
Then you said "Show me a person who trusts 'other sources over their own experiences' and I will show you a non-thinking person who is easily played." Next, you cited a few outlier, horror stories. After that you shared a story of a good prof. Finally, you concluded with a rather disrespectful way of saying you didn't mean everyone on campuses in your first post, although you still seem to say it is widespread.
I then responded that someone who trusts "their own experience over other sources" will not be in good shape either. Concluding, "obviously the good judges are those who can balance the two." I then said stories you pointed to were outliers, and you should not paint any group by their worst elements. Finally, I shared a bit about a prof I liked as well.

I was ready to leave it there. I agree speech protection on campus are weird and not perfectly enforced. The argument then progressed because of 24Bingo's post and your resultant reply. I then jumped in because I feel one should not generally put their own experience ahead of expert/scientific opinion without good reason. For my part in the derailment, I apologize.

Back to the topic at hand: The overwhelming majority of people on campuses are reasonable and respectful.
Twirdman
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April 5th, 2014 at 11:48:39 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

I'm sorry, but I wasn't looking to compare being gay to being against a gay position--there are more than few things that are unacceptable and both of my examples are unacceptable, as is your added example. It isn't a complete list, just a couple of things that are unacceptable. No need to look at the words for a deeper meaning.



But why is it unacceptable to fire someone for this. I mean Mozilla is a private corporation. If you oppose the situation you are free to no longer use their product but are you honestly saying the government or any other entity should intervene and force Mozilla to keep him on as CEO?

How far does someone have to go with their speech before it becomes acceptable to fire them, remember these are private companies firing not a government imprisoning for that one the answer is close to never, I mean what if the guy went to white power rallies or something equally reviled should Mozilla be forced to keep him on then?
24Bingo
24Bingo
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April 5th, 2014 at 11:48:49 AM permalink
Quote: endermike

I was ready to leave it there. I agree speech protection on campus are weird and not perfectly enforced. The argument then progressed because of 24Bingo's post and your resultant reply. I then jumped in because I feel one should not generally put their own experience ahead of expert/scientific opinion without good reason. For my part in the derailment, I apologize.



I brought it up because I was fairly sure he agreed on those statements with the learned consensus over naïve intuition, making them appropriate counterexamples to his statement. If someone else had said something similar, I might have added some familiar denialist canards about global warming to the list, but since he actually is a denialist, that wouldn't have spoken to my point. (Similarly, if he had been a systems bettor, I wouldn't have made the reference to bac.)
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
Lemieux66
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April 5th, 2014 at 11:53:42 AM permalink
Just trust other people's experience when it comes to anything involving math. Some other things, such as science, are up for interpretation because new things constantly get discovered.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
RonC
RonC
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April 5th, 2014 at 12:00:25 PM permalink
Quote: Twirdman

But why is it unacceptable to fire someone for this. I mean Mozilla is a private corporation. If you oppose the situation you are free to no longer use their product but are you honestly saying the government or any other entity should intervene and force Mozilla to keep him on as CEO?

How far does someone have to go with their speech before it becomes acceptable to fire them, remember these are private companies firing not a government imprisoning for that one the answer is close to never, I mean what if the guy went to white power rallies or something equally reviled should Mozilla be forced to keep him on then?



If you read the original post, I did say that they have the "right" to fire him. People have the "right" to do lots of things but that does not necessarily make them the "right thing to do". I would defend Mozilla's "right" to fire him and oppose any government action, of course. That doesn't mean that their action is "acceptable"--I think most, if not all of us, can see that point without comparing to an extreme and repugnant position in which firing him would be generally accepted.
Izvorska
Izvorska
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April 13th, 2014 at 4:12:19 AM permalink
The problem is that being "open-minded" means that you have to support and be in favor of all minorities. Be that minorities of an ethnic group/race, with another citizenship, another religion or another sexual orientation. "Open-mindedness" no more means that you have the right to your own opinion, as long as you can elaborate on it and argument yourself, but it means that you have to be okay with these "opressed" minorities and cannot tolerate conservative views. Me personally, I really have no problem with anything as long as it does not interfere with my personal life. But if I had problems with transsexual Buddhists, I think I should have the right to voice it, as long as I do not hurt anybody.
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