Has It Gone Too Far? Free Speech and Aggressive Activism

Quote: AZDuffman

Show me a person who trusts "other sources over their own experiences" and I will show you a non-thinking person who is easily played.

Next up: AZD's explanation that velocities obviously add, time is clearly universal, the ordinary laws of mechanics can be scaled downwards indefinitely, banker can't possibly come 23 times in a row, and .999... is not 1, you non-thinking people.

(Not that he's not right about right-wing speakers being chased off campuses - although I'm not sure it's as much a problem at the faculty level as he seems to think - it's just this statement is clearly ridiculous.)

Quote: Twirdman

Yeah I went to Davis for my undergrad degree and we are a very liberal university yet there were plenty of street preachers and other vile people who came to university campus. Right now I am in UF and you have plenty of disturbing pro-life posters with protesters along with a few other conservative people talking and totally allowed. Yeah most people think they are total idiots and avoid them in any way possible but there is no banning of the.

Again with this case though the former CEO of Mozilla he is completely free to say whatever he wants but that does not mean a multimillion dollar corporation has to have him as CEO. A company does a cost benefit analyze and when they did they found that it wasn't worth keeping him as CEO because he would potentially cost more business than his acumen could make up for.

And how has that liberalism worked out in the past 50 years for the groups that blindly vote for your party year after year?

Quote: AZDuffman

Show me a person who trusts "other sources over their own experiences" and I will show you a non-thinking person who is easily played.

Show me a person who trusts "their own experience over other sources" and I will show you a person who struggles with the gamblers fallacy, the Monty Hall problem, or what good statistical analysis does. Obvuiously the good judges are those who can balance the two.

Quote: AZDuffman

No obviously, it is not that there is "no conservative speech allowed on college campuses." But on most the left tries in every way possible. Look at what happens when a conservative comes to speak, they are sometimes even physically attacked. Try to get funds for a group that has a charter of traditional marriage and family values and see what happens. Heck, Christian groups have been told to admit atheists of be booted off campus and no recognition from the school!

For every one case on an overreacting leftist there are a hundred folks who treat everyone with respect. On my campuses there has been a group which gets to setup graphic photos of aborted fetuses right outside the dining halls (with the intent to further a pro-life cause). There is much argument, disdain, discussion, and disapproval, but they still get to do their setup without interference. They get to try to shove pamphlets in folks hands and engage students who are just trying to get from A to B. You wouldn't want all conservatives judged by Voters Outreach of America or the chicanery down in Florida in 2012.

Quote: AZDuffman

Not every left-wing professor I had squelched speech in their classroom. In fact the farthest left one I ever had, and you had to see this guy to believe him, was quite the opposite. I still remember the day he came in and said he had a quote for discussion. I don't remember the issue, but he points right at me and said, "I want to hear from *you* first." (emphasis his.) I think he enjoyed someone stirring up the class and I know he didn't like yes-men who agreed with him for a grade. But he is not the norm, like I said you had to see him to believe him. If you saw him on the street you would offer him a bowl of soup.

Haha. He sounds like a good prof. He reminds me of a couple of my favorites over the years. There was this one ethics professor, his class should have been named Devil's Advocate 101. Suffice to say if his class had been moderated by the standards of WoV, there would have been A LOT of suspensions. I loved that guy (I still email him from time to time).

edit:a word I left out

Quote: RonC

A long time ago--at a time close to when our President said he was against gay marriage!

Exactly. And by passing DOMA, the Clintons have done far more to harm gay rights than Mr. Eich ever did; so will the liberals who cheered Eich's resignation be voting for Hillary in 2016?

"I think there is a gay mafia," Maher said. "I think if you cross them, you do get whacked."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/04/04/bill_maher_there_is_a_gay_mafia_if_you_cross_them_you_do_get_whacked.html

Whether he meant it or it was tongue-in-cheek, is that what we need?

Quote: 24Bingo

Next up: AZD's explanation that velocities obviously add, time is clearly universal, the ordinary laws of mechanics can be scaled downwards indefinitely, banker can't possibly come 23 times in a row, and .999... is not 1, you non-thinking people.

(Not that he's not right about right-wing speakers being chased off campuses - although I'm not sure it's as much a problem at the faculty level as he seems to think - it's just this statement is clearly ridiculous.)

*sigh*

Lets say you and I sit outside a little cafe most days and there is a place across the street with a balcony about 10 feet up. It is a crazy coffee house where people bet if they can jump off. Over a week we see 10 people jump off and each breaks their ankle. Now some guy comes up and explains how you can jump off that balcony and bend your legs in x a way and you will land just fine. He shows what your velocity will be and a dozen reasons why it will work. He has a doctorate in physics. He asks if you want to try it out.

Do you say "sounds right, I'll try it!' Or do you say, "No way, I'll break my ankle."

You see, a thinking person knows when you trust something and when you trust your own experiences. I know a die has 6 sides and I know with proper randomization it has a 1/6 chance of hitting any specific number. This is provable over and over in a short time frame, and absent dice control is not in dispute.

OTOH, there are things that science claims they have proven but in reality cannot. Global Warming being the perfect example. I have stated my reasons for disbelief before and will now add that I have learned humans are not responsible for even 1/20 of CO2 produced on earth. Global Warming cannot be proven in a short time with a control group. So for that I trust my own experiences.

You see, to me the "listen to the scientists" thing is the most anti-intellectual thing of all. I have seen "experts" be wrong on so many things in life I have learned to use your common sense first of all. And I have learned to trust those in the "real world" far more than those crammed into a university or government center who are not held to results nearly as much if at all.

So if you or anybody here want to trust "other sources" please feel free. Just don't ask me to help out when it goes bad and all you can say is that someone else said it should be so.

Quote: Twirdman

Right now I am in UF

Again with this case though the former CEO of Mozilla he is completely free to say whatever he wants but that does not mean a multimillion dollar corporation has to have him as CEO. A company does a cost benefit analyze and when they did they found that it wasn't worth keeping him as CEO because he would potentially cost more business than his acumen could make up for.

If the CEO of Coke came out and said he was gay, it would be ok for you if Coke summarily fired him because 'he would potentially cost more business than his acumen could make up for?"

By the way, by UF do you mean Gainsville, Florida?

AZD, just because the guy sitting next to you has a "winning system" which you see winning at the casino, don't follow his lead. Or at least don't ask me to help out when it goes bad and all you can say is that "my personal experience said it should be so."

Quote: endermike

AZD, just because the guy sitting next to you has a "winning system" which you see winning at the casino, don't follow his lead. Or at least don't ask me to help out when it goes bad and all you can say is that "my personal experience said it should be so."

Since my personal experience is that you cannot have a winning system this is unlikely to happen. As I have said here before, I have seen a table almost cleared out clear it back from the players in 10 minutes.

OTOH, feel free to ignore yours and listen to other sources. The world needs sheep.

Quote: SOOPOO

If the CEO of Coke came out and said he was gay, it would be ok for you if Coke summarily fired him because 'he would potentially cost more business than his acumen could make up for?"

By the way, by UF do you mean Gainsville, Florida?

Yeah Gainesville I'm working on my PhD in math there right now.

Technically the gay one is a bit of a sticky wicket because in some states being gay is a protected class so arguably they would be breaking the law depending on which state they are in so I will go with a case definitely legal say Cokes CEO came out in favor of Gay rights and donated heavily to a gay rights cause. This is closer anyone since Mozilla CEO was not fired for being straight he was fired for actions he took. In that case if Coke decided to fire him they are well within their rights to do so. I would be against their decision and probably would buy less Coke products, already don't buy many since soda machine on campus are pepsi and I buy generic at home, but that is all I would do. Just as people have an option to boycott Mozilla if they disagree with current CEO forced resignation.