Casino Ethics

The more I play the more hardened I become. I am actually starting to despise casino employees. Especially the young asian female robots.

I was playing blackjack earlier today. A blind man who I witnessed sitting at another table had lost a $1000. He was just occupying a seat at the table with no other players. I was on an opposite pit side table. As soon as a few people came up to join my game I left. Perfect timing TC -5. Colored up and went to get something to eat.

After eating hit the blind man's table. He reappeared and bought in $500. He asks for 3 black, 6 green, 10 red. Simple right?

Asian female counts out 3 black, 4 green, and 12 red. Calls out $500. Supervisor acknowledges and she starts to ship. I'm like WHOA!
She looks at me all confused. I'm like you've got $460 there. Pit critter comes running over and gets it corrected. Acknowledges the blind man and thanks me.

So the dealer starts pitching. She calls out 11 vs. 4 first hand. Blind man doubles. Lost by the way, spiked a 5, dealer drew to 18. This went on for every hand. Blind man playing perfect basic strategy. Then he starts getting pairs. First one 8,8 vs 6. She says 16 vs. 6. Blind man stands. She then moves to me and I am like WHOA again. I tell blind man he has 8,8. He goes off and says split. She literally refuses and says, " you wave off and stay". Pit critter back again. Takes care of it and blind man gets the split and winds up with one double. WIN, yeah.

Blind man had a deal with boss that dealer would call pairs with totals. Keep in mind blind guy played for 1/2 hour that I saw when he lost $1000. He was by himself with that same dealer. I know this is not the first instance that type of situation came up. Needless to say blind dude was pissed.

After all this, the very next time, after a few hands, blind dude gets 9,9 vs 5. She says 18, he stands, and she moves to me showing 7,4 with my double already out and drops a card on my hand before I'm like WHOA. Now I'm wondering what went on with the blind dude earlier today when he was alone with that vulture. She started yelling at me because I had flipped and doubled once seeing my cards. As if that caused her to tell him 18 vs. 5, not 9,9 vs. 5. I needed to get off the table, drawing to much attention for my comfort. Regular store for me.

Pit critter offers to let the man split and gives me an option to throw away my doubled hand which is a 21, by the way. Blind man splits, winds up with 9,2 and 9,6 , stands 15, doubles and pulls another 9 for 20, then stands.

Dealer flips a 6 for 11 and draws a 9 for 20. Blind dude has chips raked 75 and 150 pushed. Asian robot pays me. I look at pit critter, like why aren't you pushing, or at least chopping blind dudes 20. He walks off as if job is done. Blind dude has less than 250 left. I left table in disgust and gravitated to another table closer to pit critters hangout. I min. bet a spot and converse to pit critter about WTF was going on. He says blind guy won 1700 yesterday. He's just upset that he's giving it back today.

I told him, it doesn't help that your dealer is stealing it from him. I suggested that they go back and look at footage of previous hands and refund dudes losses from any hands that were not split according to his verbal agreement. He laughed at me and said, "You take the bad with the good". I up and left for the cage. By this time blind dude was sitting busted out and contemplating a rebuy.

Half the time blind dude didn't even get his chips in the betting box. They would be an inch or two out. I have the table number and time of this incident. I honestly feel like filing a report with the gaming commission. I have seen this house deal to drunks falling into the felt at 2-3 am in the past.

I wonder why YOU are at that casino if you see stuff like this happening. You could at least go lose at the Fair Shake Casino.

Quote: MaxPen

The more I play the more hardened I become. I am actually starting to despise casino employees. Especially the young asian female robots.

I was playing blackjack earlier today. A blind man who I witnessed sitting at another table had lost a $1000. He was just occupying a seat at the table with no other players. I was on an opposite pit side table. As soon as a few people came up to join my game I left. Perfect timing TC -5. Colored up and went to get something to eat.

After eating hit the blind man's table. He reappeared and bought in $500. He asks for 3 black, 6 green, 10 red. Simple right?

Asian female counts out 3 black, 4 green, and 12 red. Calls out $500. Supervisor acknowledges and she starts to ship. I'm like WHOA!
She looks at me all confused. I'm like you've got $460 there. Pit critter comes running over and gets it corrected. Acknowledges the blind man and thanks me.

So the dealer starts pitching. She calls out 11 vs. 4 first hand. Blind man doubles. Lost by the way, spiked a 5, dealer drew to 18. This went on for every hand. Blind man playing perfect basic strategy. Then he starts getting pairs. First one 8,8 vs 6. She says 16 vs. 6. Blind man stands. She then moves to me and I am like WHOA again. I tell blind man he has 8,8. He goes off and says split. She literally refuses and says, " you wave off and stay". Pit critter back again. Takes care of it and blind man gets the split and winds up with one double. WIN, yeah.

Blind man had a deal with boss that dealer would call pairs with totals. Keep in mind blind guy played for 1/2 hour that I saw when he lost $1000. He was by himself with that same dealer. I know this is not the first instance that type of situation came up. Needless to say blind dude was pissed.

After all this, the very next time, after a few hands, blind dude gets 9,9 vs 5. She says 18, he stands, and she moves to me showing 7,4 with my double already out and drops a card on my hand before I'm like WHOA. Now I'm wondering what went on with the blind dude earlier today when he was alone with that vulture. She started yelling at me because I had flipped and doubled once seeing my cards. As if that caused her to tell him 18 vs. 5, not 9,9 vs. 5. I needed to get off the table, drawing to much attention for my comfort. Regular store for me.

Pit critter offers to let the man split and gives me an option to throw away my doubled hand which is a 21, by the way. Blind man splits, winds up with 9,2 and 9,6 , stands 15, doubles and pulls another 9 for 20, then stands.

Dealer flips a 6 for 11 and draws a 9 for 20. Blind dude has chips raked 150. Asian robot pays me. I look at pit critter, like why aren't you pushing blind dude. He walks off as if job is done. Blind dude has less than 150 left. I left table in disgust and gravitated to another table closer to pit critters hangout. I min. bet a spot and converse to pit critter about WTF was going on. He says blind guy won 1700 yesterday. He's just upset that he's giving it back today.

I told him, it doesn't help that your dealer is stealing it from him. I suggested that they go back and look at footage of previous hands and refund dudes losses from any hands that were not split according to his verbal agreement. He laughed at me and said, "You take the bad with the good". I up and left for the cage. By this time blind dude was sitting busted out and contemplating a rebuy.

Half the time blind dude didn't even get his chips in the betting box. They would be an inch or two out. I have the table number and time of this incident. I honestly feel like filing a report with the gaming commission. I have seen this house deal to drunks falling into the felt at 2-3 am in the past.

That is beyond disgusting, even more so that the PB didn't rectify the problem (not letting the crappy dealer off the hook; DO YOUR JOB, fer cryin' out loud!). Once they've agreed to accommodate his disability by calling his cards, they absolutely have an obligation to do so. I guess he needs a sighted companion to protect him. But if he's independent enough to play on his own, he'd probably hate that.

Casino ethics, great oxymoron.

Report it.
Never play there again.
Profit.

Just curious....did this incident occur in Vegas?

There is a blind gentleman that plays a number of stores that I play and I see him regularly. The description sounds a lot like him, except the guy I know doesn't play that high of stakes. He bets red and green. As a matter of fact that is one of his difficulties. He often grabs like 4 chips thinking they are all red and one might be a green. If he wagers both red and green on a single bet and wins, when he gets paid, he will ask which chip is the green and tries to keep them in separate areas but often he mixes them up. He is also very big on insisting he be told about pairs and soft hands and not just a total.

I helped him out a number of times announcing his hands to him. One day at East Cannery, I was playing at the same table with him and he became really nasty with the dealer who did forgot to tell him what he had. He had a pat hand like hard 19 and the dealer just skipped over him, knowing he would stand. She forgot to tell him what he had. He berated and cussed her out. It was ugly and uncalled for. Ever since then, I just avoid him.

Just wondering if that might have been him?

Quote: kewlj

Just curious....did this incident occur in Vegas?

There is a blind gentleman that plays a number of stores that I play and I see him regularly. The description sounds a lot like him, except the guy I know doesn't play that high of stakes. He bets red and green. As a matter of fact that is one of his difficulties. He often grabs like 4 chips thinking they are all red and one might be a green. If he wagers both red and green on a single bet and wins, when he gets paid, he will ask which chip is the green and tries to keep them in separate areas but often he mixes them up. He is also very big on insisting he be told about pairs and soft hands and not just a total.

I helped him out a number of times announcing his hands to him. One day at East Cannery, I was playing at the same table with him and he became really nasty with the dealer who did forgot to tell him what he had. He had a pat hand like hard 19 and the dealer just skipped over him, knowing he would stand. She forgot to tell him what he had. He berated and cussed her out. It was ugly and uncalled for. Ever since then, I just avoid him.

Just wondering if that might have been him?

Yep, that's the guy. He was starting out with 3 reds, then moving to 30, 50, and 75 top bet. He was on a 500 buy in, having lost a 1000 earlier at the table. Definitely chasing losses. I wonder what responsibilities the casino has for dealer communication to this guy. I have seen him around once before as well. Apparently he won 1700 yesterday. They couldn't wait to get it back. It was a sick situation and very predatorial in my opinion.

I didn't read the whole post but when she called out 16 when he had 8,8 I would have asked her about it right then and there. If she admitted that she did it and knew about it I would have called the suit over. She should be fired if she did this on purpose. And I think gaming would call it cheating on the part of the casino.

Quote: Greasyjohn

I didn't read the whole post but when she called out 16 when he had 8,8 I would have asked her about it right then and there. If she admitted that she did it and knew about it I would have called the suit over. She should be fired if she did this on purpose. And I think gaming would call it cheating on the part of the casino.

Agree with this. But if I were you, after the second time, I would have told the gentleman to leave the table because they are stealing his money. And I would have done it right in front of the dealer and pit boss. I don't care if it was my "home" casino or not.

Quote: rsactuary

Agree with this. But if I were you, after the second time, I would have told the gentleman to leave the table because they are stealing his money. And I would have done it right in front of the dealer and pit boss. I don't care if it was my "home" casino or not.

Yes.

Quote: rsactuary

Agree with this. But if I were you, after the second time, I would have told the gentleman to leave the table because they are stealing his money. And I would have done it right in front of the dealer and pit boss. I don't care if it was my "home" casino or not.

The guy is a semi-regular player. I did let the guy know when I was making the corrections. Why do you think he was getting so pissed off? Why he continued to play was beyond me. None of my business. However, I am curious as to the casino responsibility relating to this issue.

I don't know what I would do, as I've never been in that situation.

But, I'd suspect you could definitely call up gaming. I've never called them before, but, I'd suspect if you gave them a quick summary of what happened, they could determine if that is cheating or not.

If the dealer lied about the player's total, I'd suspect that's definitely cheating. ie: Player has 10 but dealer says he has 19.

Unfortunately, I'd also suspect that the dealer saying "you have 16" (even though he has 8,8), would not constitute as cheating, since, the player does have 16....and it would "be up to the player" to ask if he has a soft 16 or if it's 8,8. Even if he had previously asked for all pairs and soft hands to be announced as such.....I suspect that wouldn't be enough. :(


Regardless, could call gaming, give a summary and see what happens from there.

Here's the (IMO wishy-washy) ADA statement from www.lasvegas.com:

GAMBLING - All hotels have accessible slot machines and many have sit-down table games. Many hotels also have accommodations for wheelchair users to play craps. Gaming personnel are well-trained in assisting vision and hearing-impaired persons to play table games. If you need a sign-language interpreter for the gaming schools offered at many of the casinos, just ask in advance. Most bingo rooms have Braille cards and large-print cards. A few larger rooms have electronic bingo, enabling blind players or persons with hand-dexterity problems to play up to 100 cards at once!

I witnessed a blind man playing Baccarat today, I thought I had seen it all. He was a regular and the dealer would call out the cards individually. They placed a button between the Bank and Player spots, so he knew where to place his chips, gave the dealer chips when he wanted to bet pairs or Tie.

He did well and won over 500 hundred, without ever looking at the score board!! I wonder how he would get on in a squeeze game though, it also made for a slow game with no other tables open.

The simple solution is that the dealer should, for ALL hands, call out the INDIVIDUAL CARDS for the blind man.

That would eliminate the problems caused by not announcing pairs, soft totals, and the rare case of the dealer announcing the wrong total. The dealer should also announce each of his/her own cards.

My best poker buddy went blind slowly about 30 years ago. He had to quit playing poker until about 10 years ago when a surgery restored enough eyesight that he could even drive again. During that 20 years he just played blackjack. He always played with markers and was, and is an exceptionally nice man.

They always took very good care of him. Granted, he has a lot of money and always has a host. But, that isn't rare in Vegas. He tips well too. That and the fact that he is a very nice and amiable man could account for the different treatment. I've played many hours of Blackjack with him and they always announced his had exactly as it was. A pair of eights were always announced as such.

The story above is shocking to me just knowing how my friend Frank was treated. He never went alone but still would end up by himself sometimes. They always provided him a guide to help him get around. Usually an attractive young female. And he would always tip her at least a green chip.

Even if the blind man in question is a jerk, he still doesn't deserve to be ripped off. I'd try and complain to somebody if I'd seen that I think.

I think the name of said casino deserves to be stated.

Quote: Wizard

I think the name of said casino deserves to be stated.

I don't want to do that. I can PM you the name if you want to know.

Me too, please.

Quote: Wizard

I think the name of said casino deserves to be stated.

Yes - I was speaking with my dad about this and we both said that if we knew the name, we could boycott it in the future

If gaming was called over this, would there be enough evidence? Surveillance footage would catch things like mispays, but there's no mic on the dealer to determine if she was calling out hands the way they said she would. Was the man wearing sunglasses, holding a walking stick, or giving some other visual cue that he was blind? One that would show up on the tape?

I think this situation is disgusting, and I like the suggestion someone gave of telling that player "They're stealing your money" right in front of them.

Quote: Deucekies

If gaming was called over this, would there be enough evidence? Surveillance footage would catch things like mispays, but there's no mic on the dealer to determine if she was calling out hands the way they said she would. Was the man wearing sunglasses, holding a walking stick, or giving some other visual cue that he was blind? One that would show up on the tape?

I think this situation is disgusting, and I like the suggestion someone gave of telling that player "They're stealing your money" right in front of them.

Yes, the guy carried a collapsible stick. Clearly blind as many of his bets didn't make it into the circle. The dealer was completely trying to screw the guy. Floor when a scene was made would come and correct. However, no slack was given. In my opinion he was clearly cheated out of 75 dollars by a poor floor call. I helped the guy not get cheated out of at least another 200.

The actions that this casino took are appalling. I really wish dealers and pit would actually do their jobs as they're supposed to. I had an incident at Bally's in AC where my now fiance and I had been playing blackjack and someone stumbled up to the table obviously drunk out of his mind. The man stood, watching the table and the proceeded to grab my fiance's chair and began to swivel it back and forth as he caught his balance standing at watching. Pit came over 2-3 mins later and I mentioned to him that this was annoying my fiance and I'd appreciate if he would ask the man to stop.

Pit walks away. Comes back 5-10 mins later and still the same things going on, at this point I'm getting angry. At this point I tell him to that this guy has been bothering us for the past 10 mins or so and is obviously highly intoxicated and can't even stand up. Pit just acts oblivious to what I told him and it's at that point I tell the man to please stop bothering my fiance. Man then decides to sit down and pulls $100 in crumpled bills out of his pocket and onto the table (dropping at least one of the 20's on the floor in the process). Casino has no problem allowing the man to play, drunk out of his mind, after a few hands my fiance and I stand up and leave... can no one do their job anymore? How many times must you ask someone to do something before they'll actually do it? I pay the casino for its service and the pit is there to assist in that service, yet it seems like anymore you have to basically walk up to them and tap them on the shoulder or twist their arm before they'll actually do anything. What's the point in that position if they just walk around and punch numbers in the computer. It was my understanding that they are supposed to police minor disputes before they blow up into something major, but maybe that's me putting too much faith into the system.

It should be noted that this particular gentleman is most unpleasant at times. Usually he is just very business-like and not at all friendly, even to people, including casino personnel that are trying to help him. But at times I have seen him get really nasty for little reason, mostly just because he is losing.

That is not to say that is justification for a casino or anyone to cheat him. But it does make those that might want to look after him and help him less inclined to do so.

Nice!