Nareed's Own New English Dictionary of Gambling

Quote: EvenBob

Unlike working in a casino, which as we know is
chock full of redeeming qualities.

Oh...damn straight. People find gambling so rewarding - they keep coming back! Go figure...
Not a bad gig if you're a shift manager or higher, or in any good house like the Wynn, Red Rock, Green Valley Ranch.

It's always a pleasure to supply gaming services and outlets to the gaming public, who are always so appreciative, supportive, - and such a pleasure to deal with.

Believe me, satisfying the needs of the legions of you gamblers is very redeeming. Certainly you'll agree you're worth it, if not demand it.

I am not sure why it is necessary to have this same discussion over and over. I am in my tenth year of supporting myself from AP play. I am no longer going to defend my choice of supporting myself to anyone. It is completely legal and I am very comfortable with my choice.

But I will say this because it was brought up in this thread. I love what I do for a living. I'm not going to say that every day is a joy. Of course it's not. Like any job there are good days and bad and that doesn't necessarily corespond to winning or losing. There are just days that you don't feel like 'working', or other people seem to bother you, etc. Same as any other job. I mean even a pro athelete that loves his job is going to have days he hates. But when looking at the big picture I love what I do and feel very fortunate to be able to support myself in this manner. I also love the freedom that it affords me to call my own shots and set my own hours. It also provides me the opportunity to give back to my community financially as well as giving of my time, which I don't think I would be in a position to do working a more traditional job.

So those of you that choose to judge me, enjoy yourself. I really don't care. You come across as bitter, but that is your issue not mine.

Quote: Paigowdan

Believe me, satisfying the needs of the legions of you gamblers is very redeeming..

What Dan just can't live with is the casino is
predatory and in their smugness thinks they
should be the only one and only predator. Here
comes an AP and preys on THEM and that just
won't do. Who do they think they are, preying
on the predator.

The Mob had it right when they ran the casinos.
When they caught an AP they would teach him
a lesson about preying in their territory. Just like
wild animals do, its no different.

Naww....Casinos and gambling halls are 100% voluntary, as is Gamblers anonymous, if needed.
Nothing predatory about that, although I hear that such things as T-shirt give-aways and free bet tickets are somehow claimed to be predatory, instead of pretty normal marketing outreach programs.

Just remember, if you gamble....the casino is your friend. Where else would you gamble legally, reliably, and with such amenities?

And the Mob didn't have it right, breaking the legs of those friendly AP players who were just tryin' to make a living. It was in those days that the AP who preys upon casinos is the AP who prays to still be breathing. And all this is a no-no, as APs are people, too, you see. Misguided, perhaps, but harmless enough, and never to be harmed. Backed-off, yes, but back-roomed, no.

Quote: Paigowdan

And the Mob didn't have it right, breaking the legs of those friendly AP players who were just tryin' to make a living.

You're just so darned PC Dan, it brings a tear to
my eye. Like you wouldn't be cheering for the
guy with the rubber hammer in the back room if
this was 1963..

Of course casinos are predatory they are in the business to get my money period. So what its fun for most people. Who dose not know that casinos are no made to get your money? At least people know where they stand with the casinos. I have never heard anyone say, " If i keep playing at the casino I'll be sure to win". 99 percent of people say, "the house always wins" (other then advantage players and real delusional people) *Ahigh cough* JUST KIDDING. The worst predators are churches and hospitals they try to make you believe they care they only care about your money. They are just preying on your money. I cant think of any business that's not preying on my money. They just hide behind offering some service. The Wizard must be a predator according to some of you. I believe he offers this site to get people to visit an online casino that may or may not be legal in the united states.

I leave the thread for a few days and this happens...

Let me ammend the definition

AP: A person completely devoid of any sense of irony, who is capable of sucking all the fun out of any casino game.

Better? ;)

Quote: Nareed

I leave the thread for a few days and this happens...

Let me ammend the definition

AP: A person completely devoid of any sense of irony, who is capable of sucking all the fun out of any casino game.

Better? ;)

Tell us about all the APs you've met, Nareed.

Quote: Nareed

Better?

No.

AP = Addictive Player, is it not?

Quote: AxelWolf

Of course casinos are predatory they are in the business to get my money period. .

But no other business goes at it like a casino
does, by offering no value for your money.
Sure, a cell phone company wants your money,
but they also give you something, a fricking
cell phone. A casino gives you nothing except
a phony 'chance to win'. And only the first
couple times you go.

Nobody ever talks about the risk compounding
involved in going to a casino. Because they have
the edge, you have no chance of ever getting
ahead. Sure you can have a good day of winning,
but are you ahead overall? Hell no, they still have
a big chunk of your money. But people never think
about that. All that happens when you win is the
casino gives you back a little of what they took from
you in the past. And you're sooooo grateful that
you'll go back and let them do it again.

Quote: Paigowdan

Very True. It is all about the treatment of people, both ploppies and workers. Tokes cut into a Pro's profit, and many are loathe to either share or to be social.

Two things I believe:
...

2. I don't believe AP work is a satisfying, reliable, or socially redeeming avenue, either as a job or pastime, but for many a compulsion or a slick "jolly-seeking" side show of gambling that is not legit gambling or legit in general, even if justified on some sort of a "I'm a Robin Hood versus the evil empire" basis, which it often is. I have a begrudging respect for APs who say, "Yeah, casinos are a legit business, but I just enjoy (or am compelled) to enjoy and seek out my self-seeking shenanigan-doing in this area. I also get jollies from fare-beating and other free lunch scams, too! It's exactly what I do!"

A job is as satisfying as you make it out to be. Some people get their satisfaction from extreme couponing and from entering every contest imaginable. Maximizing value doing something you enjoy can be satisfying in itself.

AP might be tough work, but it can be financially rewarding too, and some people love the casino environment such that the ability to sit indoors, smoke, drink, stay, and eat for free while honing out a few bucks as well is personally worthwhile for them. Some people find great pleasure sucking bucks out of a money-making institution.

I know casino regulars who consider themselves "Professional Gamblers", even though they have never had a winning year.

Quote: EvenBob

But no other business goes at it like a casino
does, by offering no value for your money.
Sure, a cell phone company wants your money,
but they also give you something, a fricking
cell phone. A casino gives you nothing except
a phony 'chance to win'. And only the first
couple times you go.

Nobody ever talks about the risk compounding
involved in going to a casino. Because they have
the edge, you have no chance of ever getting
ahead. Sure you can have a good day of winning,
but are you ahead overall? Hell no, they still have
a big chunk of your money. But people never think
about that. All that happens when you win is the
casino gives you back a little of what they took from
you in the past. And you're sooooo grateful that
you'll go back and let them do it again.

I see what you're getting at, Bob. If you don't take home a physical item like a new cell phone, you're getting no value. Ergo, casinos give no value.
Then so do movies, amusement parks, dance halls, music concerts, and the like.


Fun has no value.

Quote: Paigowdan

Then so do movies, amusement parks, dance halls, music concerts, and the like.

As somebody pointed out, people who work in
movies, amusement parks, dance halls, music concerts
and the like, all patronize the industries they work
for. Casinos are unique in that most of the employees,
especially management, want nothing to do with the
business they're in when they aren't there working.

Except in your world, Dan, where casinos are loved by
all employees, right up to the CEO.

Quote: Paigowdan

I also know that some AP's have sent in death threats to ex-AP's who turned "casino side" and exposed their methods, and provided effective counter-measures. I will say that to act in such a way is about as low-life, dirt bag gangster, and ethically bankrupt as it comes: Death threats? Really?

Ya I don't condone death threads when a simple beating should do (; I don't necessarily mind if ex APs turn to the dark side as long as they let us know and stay there. That just tells me they didn't have what it takes to make it in the AP world and probably wont be able to out smart the AP's. I have yet to hear of a consultant making hundreds of thousands or millions, yet some AP's do.

I think what is way more low life type behavior is when people start naming names of people they worked with. No one likes scummy double agent traitors, guys that pretend to be AP's friends and then they rat on them and their plays, that's absolutely as low life as it gets.

Quote: Nareed

I leave the thread for a few days and this happens...

Let me ammend the definition

AP: A person completely devoid of any sense of irony, who is capable of sucking all the fun out of any casino game.

Better? ;)

Yes, I would not want to come back for days knowing i said something that is BS. Especially if i was just making crap up to invoke a reaction knowing I could never do what I wish I could do. It's easier to slam the cool kids then be one of them.

Quote: EvenBob

As somebody pointed out, people who work in
movies, amusement parks, dance halls, music concerts
and the like, all patronize the industries they work
for. Casinos are unique in that most of the employees,
especially management, want nothing to do with the
business they're in when they aren't there working.

This is bullshit - and I have to call Bob on this. Bob, you're talking out of your backside, here.
Dealers and floormen gamble at a higher rate than the general population, certainly here in Las Vegas.
When I worked at the Fiesta on swing shift (7PM-3AM), I used to go after work to Sunset Station/Cannery/South Point with a number of dealers.
Furthermore, on swing, I dealt to a LOT of dealers and floormen, many from the strip, including a very sharp surveillance expert from a huge casino operator. (Technically a no-no.)

It was also ROUTINE to see fellow dealers and floormen at Fiesta or any other local casino, including a ton from the strip.

I've played dice with MathExtremist here, who is a super-pro in the gaming industry: Game designer, Gaming mathematician, and lay legal expert in gaming - and the President of Olympian Gaming up in Washington State.

Also, another very distinguished and esteemed gaming mathematician (who does a lot of R & D math work for major gaming manufacturers) just chunks time at the tables, certainly when he's in town. They flat bet him or disallow him to play Blackjack, but all welcome his action of Craps, UTH, Pai Gow Poker where he can't possibly AP (he's an ex-AP of a "Reasonably Forgiven" status.) This fine mathematician is Charles Mousseau, and he himself will tell you he throws dice and plays some cards, along with Steve How of www.discountgambling.net. And these three outstanding Gaming mathematicians certain know the math - and still find gambling - casino action itself - a very fine, worthwhile, and enjoyable pastime.

I used to play poker at the Tuscany's poker room with the Director of Gaming Analytics of United Coin Machine Co., who was previously a dealer and later a casino executive at Stations, being the (Casino Manager of the Wild Wild West Casino, another Stations property.)

I've also played EZ Pai Gow with Mike "The Wizard" Shackleford - whom we all know and love - at Red Rock, and true to his word, he did not play the side bets, but certainly patronized this Stations' property, and had enjoyed that particularly fine and excellent game, (Well...IMHO..... :) )

Serious people in the Gaming Industry support the industry, and they may and frequently do gamble themselves, (with the exception shift managers, TGD's, and Surveillance members, as they are extensively involved in game protection.) And why not? It's like the chef who goes out to restaurants, the screenwriter or movie cinematographer who sees movies, or the owner of a vineyard ordering wine with dinner. One would even expect us to do it, being what we're about and believe in.

Quote: EvenBob

Except in your world, Dan, where casinos are loved by
all employees, right up to the CEO.

Well, not always. The gaming industry can often be a rude, rough, and politically charged environment, as are many other industries, too.
But I will say I wouldn't have it any other way, and I wouldn't prefer it any other way.
Love this business through all of its thorns 'cause I see the Roses in it.

You, Bob, wear nothing but soot-colored glasses as you see this great, wonderful, and legitimate industry, and you yourself devoted 37 years of pastime to it, eh?

Quote: Paigowdan

This is bullshit

Sure it is, Dan. Sure it is..

Quote: EvenBob

Sure it is, Dan. Sure it is..

Indeed it is.

Certainly, if you do it, you'd be smart to say, "It is all great and worthwhile - Gambling - I love it - and what a pastime: I enjoy it, I love it, and handle it sensibly! - It has ADDED to my life, and that's why I AM involved..."

Can't picture my life without it.

Or you can say:

"I got my ass kicked at casinos, and I should have joined Gamblers Anonymous decades ago, but instead I choose to handle it by pissing out pure sour grapes at a Gamblers' Forum, or all things!"

You tell us which one is the real scenario.
We have our suspicions.

God Damn the Pusher Man.

Can't picture my life without it.

It's wine for me and for many.
Maybe smack for you, sounds like it to me from your sour grapes.
Come clean, now, Bobby.

Quote: Paigowdan

You tell us which one is the real scenario.
.

Dan, know which scenario it is. Stop pretending
you're in the dark.

EvenBob, what does golf, a sporting event, a movie theatre,
internet service, or cable give you? A service. There's no material
value at the other end except a memory.

In the case of all of those, entertainment. Casinos generally
exist for entertainment purposes where they take a variable
amount of money from each player for the opportunity for
them to have fun. That is the value in gambling. It's
entertainment.

Quote: boymimbo

That is the value in gambling. It's
entertainment.

Whats odd is, it has to be explained. Nothing else
does, just gambling. Thats because the concept
of gambling as entertainment is a relatively new
thing. It certainly wasn't called that in the 70's
and 80's when I first started going. Being
'entertained' certainly doesn't explain the bored/grim
look most people have as they play.

I still think "entertainment" is a misnomer. There's an enjoyment of gambling that's similar to forms of entertainment, but because the enjoyment and the transaction itself are so closely linked, calling it "entertainment" invites arguments like "a movie doesn't take my money!" But the fact is, long before the seventies, it was widely-known that house-banked games supported themselves by being unfair in the house's favor - it doesn't take a mathematician, much less the vaunted brilliant AP, to figure out being paid 35:1 to guess a number out of 37 or 38 isn't a winning bet, or that paying 5% of every other win leaves you behind in the end - and people played anyway. They may not have called it "entertainment," but the concept of a gamble having a value worth paying for is much, much older than the "new" Vegas.

Quote: 24Bingo

but the concept of a gamble having a value worth paying for is much, much older than the "new" Vegas.

Its because people have selective memories and they
really don't understand what they're doing. If they
lose $400 this week and win $350 next week, they're
happy as hell, even though they're $50 in the hole.
They tell themselves they'll get even eventually and most
really believe it. Even if they know better. They forget
the losses and remember the wins, its human nature.
They say if a woman really remembered all the pain
of childbirth, she'd never have more than one child.

Quote: AxelWolf

Yes, I would not want to come back for days knowing i said something that is BS. Especially if i was just making crap up to invoke a reaction knowing I could never do what I wish I could do. It's easier to slam the cool kids then be one of them.

You certainly did not suck out all the fun and enjoyment from this thread. Well done!

Quote: EvenBob

Whats odd is, it has to be explained. Nothing else
does, just gambling. Thats because the concept
of gambling as entertainment is a relatively new
thing. It certainly wasn't called that in the 70's
and 80's when I first started going. Being
'entertained' certainly doesn't explain the bored/grim
look most people have as they play.

I don't know what casino your going to but every time I walk into casinos like the Palms,Hard Rock or Cosmopolitan I see everyone having tons of fun. Every one is all dressed up with fun and excitement on their faces, cheering and High fives all around When they gamble.

Most people come to Vegas with a budget certainty its not enough and they end up spending more (BTW SOME PEOPLE WIN, I'm sure someone can find out what percent that is) but that's what vacations are all about I have always over spent on vacation even when just camping.

My sister comes to Vegas once every few years even if im out of town and she dose not really gamble. I gave her $1000 one year and told her to use it to gamble she refused to spend more then 100 bucks and used the rest shopping. Even tho she really dose not gamble or party. I asked her why do you like Vegas so much? she said, she LOVES the casino Food , the casino architecture, the themed casinos, the entertainment, the beauty.

Quote: 1BB

Tell us about all the APs you've met, Nareed.

Well? Waite you kinda admit your information is based on reading posts on a forum. With that information you decided to define most AP's yet you know as little about AP's as I do writing, which would be very hard. You have not come up with any real valid reasons why you think this. What I really believe is, this was you just trying to be funny and didn't realize it may be just as offensive as a racial stereotype with even less truth. Now its hard to back down thus your lack of providing anything more then a few one liners and jabs at me and my grammatically challenged writing ability.
I was thinking I was dumb for even responding to what you said, then I remembered this, this is truly how i feel about your comment it's like it was made for just this situation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEkWH8DB7b0

Here you go Bob http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7228424n Slot Machines: The Big Gamble

Lesley Stahl reports on the proliferation of gambling to 38 states and its main attraction, the slot machine, newer versions of which some scientists believe may addict their players.

Quote: AxelWolf

Well? Waite you kinda admit your information is based on reading posts on a forum.

Seriously, Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary, all that means nothing to you?

Here: http://www.thedevilsdictionary.com/

Meantime:

Quote:

“MANICHEISM, n. The ancient Persian doctrine of an incessant warfare between Good and Evil. When Good gave up the fight the Persians joined the victorious Opposition.”

“RUM, n. Generically, fiery liquors that produce madness in total abstainers.”

“Religion. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable.”

That's the standard. I flatter myself that I can come close. Close enough, at least, to piss some clueless people off.


Let's see... Casino: a godless temple where the faitfhul sacrifice money for hope and free alcohol.

Now, that's not a bad spur of the moment definition, but it falls way short. So I coudl try:

Casino: a godless temple where the clueless sacrifice money in a display of faith and mathematical ignorance.

That's slightly more accurate, but too long-winded. These things are really hard, which is why I just dabble in them from time to time.

Quote: Nareed

Seriously, Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary, all that means nothing to you?

Here: http://www.thedevilsdictionary.com/

Meantime:



That's the standard. I flatter myself that I can come close. Close enough, at least, to piss some clueless people off.


Let's see... Casino: a godless temple where the faitfhul sacrifice money for hope and free alcohol.

Now, that's not a bad spur of the moment definition, but it falls way short. So I coudl try:

Casino: a godless temple where the clueless sacrifice money in a display of faith and mathematical ignorance.

That's slightly more accurate, but too long-winded. These things are really hard, which is why I just dabble in them from time to time.

No why don't you just clue me in that way I don't have to guess what your trying to convey to me. Perhaps a YouTube video I can watch that clearly defines what your saying. I feel you may be saying you were joking or being comical if that's the gist of it then I just think your backpedaling.

Quote: AxelWolf

Perhaps a YouTube video I can watch that clearly defines what your saying.

YouTube: a free website which charges steep fees in ridicule and wasted time.

No?

Well, you're not even worth blocking.

Quote: AxelWolf

I feel you may be saying you were joking or being comical if that's the gist of it then I just think your backpedaling.

...seriously? Did that OP look at all serious to you?

I have fun AP'ing around the town

beats a 8 hour shift at Fast Food R Us

or a 12 hour shift at the dealership driving rich fools with money (or look like they have money, I worked at BMW)