Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
January 22nd, 2012 at 5:54:35 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I just called the Nugget and was told the
reason its closed sometimes is when a
dealer calls in, its the table they don't
open because they're a dealer short.
Figure it out from there.


Bob, I am fully aware and know of this about the situation at the Nugget. They have not pulled the game, but often have it closed. What the Hell.
I also heard - as well as personally witnessed myself on visits - that the dealers there dislike and believe that the game's lack of white ($1) chips from commission-free operations reduce their tip income, have it "in" for the game a little bit, and discourage the floor from opening the game. They also dislike the game's dragon side bet being right in front of the main bet, as it knocks out a dealer's toke spot area on the layout.
I Know all about my game's operations at many sites, as would any game inventor.
Bob, I know that you would love nothing better than to see the game fail, and say "na-HA!!!" to me publicly on this board.
PM me, and I will send you a photo of myself, or an EZ pg layout image, so you can put it up on your dart board and have some fun.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 100
  • Posts: 5491
January 22nd, 2012 at 6:00:58 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Bob, I am fully aware and know of this about the situation at the Nugget. They have not pulled the game, but often have it closed. What the Hell.
I also heard - as well as personally witnessed myself on visits - that the dealers there dislike and believe that the game's lack of white ($1) chips from commission-free operations reduce their tip income, have it "in" for the game a little bit, and discourage the floor from opening the game. They also dislike the game's dragon side bet being right in front of the main bet, as it knocks out a dealer's toke spot area on the layout.
I Know all about my game's operations at many sites, as would any game inventor.
Bob, I know that you would love nothing better than to see the game fail, and say "na-HA!!!" to me publicly on this board.
PM me, and I will send you a photo of myself, or an EZ pg layout image, so you can put it up on your dart board and have some fun.



Very interesting.... Does the casino track average tips at different games in any formal way? It seems to me when they empty the 'tip jar' it is just added to all the others from other tables.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 418
  • Posts: 22627
January 22nd, 2012 at 6:09:39 PM permalink
edited
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
sunrise089
sunrise089
Joined: Jul 12, 2010
  • Threads: 6
  • Posts: 209
January 22nd, 2012 at 6:10:20 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

As far as I'm concerned, ANY casino game that isn't blackjack, craps, roulette, baccarat, slots or video poker is a carnival game. This includes, any bj variants, 3cp, UTH, THB, PG, PGP, CSP, LIR, etc. Obviously everyone will have different opinions.

I agree with this 100%. I note that most other games have some or most of these carnival-like characteristics: 1) Simple to install and teach, 2) high payoff possibilities, 3) high house edges, 4) proprietary ownership and licensing fees. It's not coincidental that these characteristics are shared by slot machines.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 174
  • Posts: 10026
January 22nd, 2012 at 6:12:07 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

No, it won't. Of course not. "Big Six" is fully one of the games that fell off of the major casino games list eons ago, like Faro and Hazard.
Never said otherwise, - and always stated that it was a curio of days gone by - if present at all! I mentioned that it is sometimes kept around as a momento or curio, to provide old-school atmosphere here and there...I never included it in any major casino list, and always indicated it was a relic.

I stand corrected.

I was basing my interpretation upon the "long established" track record of Big Six.

I'm VERY glad that we can agree that it's a carnival game. :)
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 418
  • Posts: 22627
January 22nd, 2012 at 6:12:59 PM permalink
Quote: sunrise089

4) proprietary ownership and licensing fees. It's not coincidental that these characteristics are shared by slot machines.



Thats an extremely good point, so obvious I
didn't even think about it. If a game isn't in
the public domain, its not a mainstay game.

Duh...
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
January 22nd, 2012 at 6:13:16 PM permalink
It's amazing.
When asked for a description of what a carnival game is, and working in the industry both in table games pit operations and tabe game design, I offer the description of it, as well as the opposite term, a "major game" - as used and practiced in the gaming industry by both workers and players as a general convention. Sorry to see all the hair splitting and "Na-HA! you're wrong - and I hope you or your game dies" kind of sentiment. WTF.

Anyway:
1. A major game is a standard game offering that casinos are expected to offer in general. They are consistently offered and patronized, and are well known. The list is basically six common and popular games: Craps, Blackjack, Pai Gow Poker, Roulette, Three Card Poker, and Baccarat, - regardless of brand. License fees are not an issue if the game makes money. It is better to pay $500 a month in license fees to earn an additional $5000, than to use a less popular version or game and take in less profit.

2. Carnival games are optional side games that fill out a table games pit offerings, are less well-known as mainstays, and include such games as Decuces Wild, Two Cards High, Zero, Rupert's island draw, Texas Hold 'em Bonus, and the like.

3. The list changes slowly over time. Some games, like Pai Gow Poker and Three Card Poker, were not on the list 20 years ago, but are considered main casino games now.

4. We all have our opinions of what we like to see, and how we would like things to be. The list of major games and the carnival games games are decided by casino operators based on players' play and acceptance (patronage) of these games.

5. People pretty much follow what is done, and it is generally accepted by consensus, with standard "Forum quibbling" debate about it all a normal part of the process.

6. Game inventors dislike the term "Carnival game" simply because it shows that most of us had not hit the Three Card Poker achievement of getting on that list as we would like to see.

I have some game inventions in the pipeline that are truly carnival games, and some may make it, and some might not. It's all a gamble that is a part of this work effort.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
P90
P90
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 1703
January 22nd, 2012 at 6:13:17 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

As far as I'm concerned, ANY casino game that isn't blackjack, craps, roulette, baccarat, slots or video poker is a carnival game.

You forgot poker. I mean the real deal.

Quote: Paigowdan

Yes, but since casinos count the money, they make the lists and decide what to offer on the gaming floor, both as a "required major game," and as an optional "fill-in" carnival or side game.


This is a question of definition, and such questions, by definition, can not be resolved. They can be agreed upon if there is a central authority on the subject (such as ISO or ANSI), but individual casinos are not such an authority, since usage differs and the term is widely used by players as well.


I personally consider 3CP and PGP (and followed by LIR and some others) to be currently the most successful of carnival games. Not extraordinary, just the most successful. However the impression I have is that they are gathering from the rest of carnival game audience, draw in variety players, rather that being games that people take up gambling for.

There is no culture associated with PGP and 3CP. Craps has loud crowds, virgins blessing the dice and bettors on fire, Blackjack has counting legends and every next player an armchair counter (hated as counters are, BJ would not be much without them), Roulette has hundreds of systems, life savings bet on red, historical glamor, Baccarat has players tracking scores, ripping cards up and dancing on the table. With PGP, 3CP, LIR - you come in, you play, you go home.

Like you said, every game has its lifespan. But the lifespan of mainstays is measured in generations, the lifespan of carnival games in years.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 418
  • Posts: 22627
January 22nd, 2012 at 6:19:00 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan


Bob, I know that you would love nothing better than to see the game fail,



He also asked me if I liked the game and I said
its all I play. He asked me why and I said no commission,
of course. He said he likes that about it also. So much
for your failure theory.. He said the game is usually open
from noon to 2am if they have a dealer for it.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 174
  • Posts: 10026
January 22nd, 2012 at 6:26:10 PM permalink
Quote: P90

You forgot poker. I mean the real deal.

Unless I'm mistaken, poker is neither.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗

  • Jump to: