Ideas for gambling-related mobile phone app: bankroll manager

Hi folks,

I'm new here although I have been enjoying the Wizard of Odds site for a couple of years, using it as my go-to reference for gambling odds and strategy. As I've been reading the forum over the last week or so, it seems like you have built up a really cool community of generally smart people here who enjoy Vegas and gambling.

The reason I'm posting is to ask for feedback on an idea for an app I've been throwing around since my last trip to Vegas. I am not selling anything (yet), so I hope this doesn't violate the terms of this board (in letter or spirit).

The app would be a bankroll manager. This would be pretty simple, although the more I think about it the more features come to mind. The basic use case would be, at the beginning of my weekend trip to Vegas, I enter my starting bankroll. Before and after every gambling session, I record how much I bought in for and how much I cashed out, along with lots of other information for the session: which casino, what game I'm playing, how long I was there, any notes, etc. etc. This list is highly fungible. At any time the app would display what my current bankroll was based on previous sessions, and at the end of the trip it could be exported into an Excel spreadsheet or a CSV document, to be retained.

The app wouldn't really be designed for long-term information storage, as that doesn't seem like a great idea on a phone that could get lost, stolen, destroyed, etc. For me personally, I have a spreadsheet on my home computer that tracks this stuff long-term, but on my last trip I was keeping track of sessions on my phone with a simple notepad app (ColorNote). It was a slight pain in the ass to use on the trip, but entering the data back into my spreadsheet was a bigger pain. This is what gave me the idea for the app.

Now the initial target audience I was thinking of was card counters and other APs, as they tend to want to keep track of sessions at this detail level. Especially for a card counter, the extra information becomes pretty important (table rules, spread used, penetration, tokes given, heat conditions, etc.) For the casual gambler, it may not be of much use, but I suppose some OCD-type folks (not meant as an insult) may enjoy it as well.

My first question is, do you know if anything like this exists right now (for iOS or Android)? I know you could approximate the functionality with a simple spreadsheet app which I know are out there, but I'm hoping this would be more usable and feature-rich for this specific application. I haven't found something similar for Android, but I haven't looked for iOS.

Second question: would you use such a thing?

And finally, any feature ideas for the proposed app.

I am in no way certain I'm going to build such a thing, but my day job is a software developer so I have the requisite skills (if not the free time right now). If I do make it, it will definitely be free to begin with although I will try to incorporate ads (I have not researched this at all and have no idea if it's viable for a nobody app with no proven users). If it proves popular I may try to sell it, probably as a premium version without ads or with additional features.

Thanks for your time! I have an additional idea for a blackjack game (there are very few good ones out there), but I'll save that for a future post.

I love it. While I'm not an AP, yet; I am one of the OCD types. During my Vegas trips, I maintain records of each gambling session. I try to use my phone or a small notepad- both are far from ideal. Sounds like a good idea- go for it.

Why not just use a Google Docs spreadsheet?

At least one other type of player may want it: Professional Poker Players.

On that note, my wife uses something on her iPhone to track her tournament history.

It seems like this is a good idea, but it may already be out there.

Quote: MathExtremist

Why not just use a Google Docs spreadsheet?

Because you don't always have internet access - particularly in a casino.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

At least one other type of player may want it: Professional Poker Players.

Very good point, I tend to lump poker players in with APs but I guess only the ones who consistently win are :).

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: MathExtremist

Why not just use a Google Docs spreadsheet?

Because you don't always have internet access - particularly in a casino.

Yes, that's a good point, but also like I noted above the hope would be that it's more user friendly and thus cuts down on the time you spend setting up the spreadsheet and entering data.

I haven't used Google Docs on anything mobile, so I'm not sure what the experience is like - I'll check that out. But it seems like finding the right cells and stuff might be a bit harder than a form-based app with defined steps and entry fields.

I totally agree that an App that's designed for the function intended (assuming it's designed well) would be far better than Google Doc or note pad or whatever else you can think of.

But, as I mentioned, I'd be surprised that something like this doesn't already exist - as an app.

I think it already exists...I have been reading a TR from a coupke poker players in Vegas now, and they mention using one

Quote: Johnzimbo

I think it already exists...I have been reading a TR from a coupke poker players in Vegas now, and they mention using one

Could you point me to that trip report, if it's on the web?

There is an app for iPhone very similar to what you describe called gamblers anonymous. It is .99 but there is a lite version for free.

I think it would be helpful to have a Kelly Criterion app. I don't know if players would be allowed to use it at the table though.

A person is either able to manage his own damn bankroll, or unable to, in which case, no bankroll management system, no matter how much cash the seller pockets from it, will help one iota. Sorry to tell you that. Glad to tell you that, in fact.

Tracking your bankroll is something that I do on paper at the casinos, but I have to remember what I did when I get back to the hotel room, and it usually isn't accurate.

Really, though, the app really is a multi-column spreadsheet:

Date
Casino
Activity
Buy in
Time Played (hours) (Optional - Start Time, End Time)
Tips
Cash Out
Win/Loss (Cash out - Buy In + Tips)
end Bankroll
Comment

Some columns would be optional: You should be able to drag and drop Casino, Time Played, Tips. The mandatory columns should be date, activity, Win Loss, end bankroll. Everything else should be optional.

Quote: Ayecarumba

I think it would be helpful to have a Kelly Criterion app. I don't know if players would be allowed to use it at the table though.

Thanks! That's a great idea, although you're right that they wouldn't be able to use it at the table. Easy enough to stand up during the shuffle and recalculate if your bankroll has shifted significantly on the previous round, though.

Quote: dm

A person is either able to manage his own damn bankroll, or unable to, in which case, no bankroll management system, no matter how much cash the seller pockets from it, will help one iota. Sorry to tell you that. Glad to tell you that, in fact.

Your comments are not helpful. I am currently able to manage my own bankroll but am interested in doing it more easily and efficiently. That is the purpose, not to make undisciplined people suddenly disciplined.

Quote: boymimbo

Tracking your bankroll is something that I do on paper at the casinos, but I have to remember what I did when I get back to the hotel room, and it usually isn't accurate.

Really, though, the app really is a multi-column spreadsheet:

Date
Casino
Activity
Buy in
Time Played (hours) (Optional - Start Time, End Time)
Tips
Cash Out
Win/Loss (Cash out - Buy In + Tips)
end Bankroll
Comment

Some columns would be optional: You should be able to drag and drop Casino, Time Played, Tips. The mandatory columns should be date, activity, Win Loss, end bankroll. Everything else should be optional.

You are entirely correct - it's nothing more than custom forms for data entry into a spreadsheet, optimized for use on a mobile device. Now that I say it that way, there is probably some solution already out there not specific to gambling, but that is customizable enough to get by. Need to do some more market research, curse this day job!

Quote: AcesAndEights

Could you point me to that trip report, if it's on the web?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/108/las-vegas-lifestyle/warning-degen-trip-report-lv-1147398/index3.html

post # 251

Quote: Johnzimbo

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/108/las-vegas-lifestyle/warning-degen-trip-report-lv-1147398/index3.html

post # 251

Thanks!

Quote: AcesAndEights

Your comments are not helpful. I am currently able to manage my own bankroll but am interested in doing it more easily and efficiently. That is the purpose, not to make undisciplined people suddenly disciplined.

Your concept is not helpful. People can manage their bankroll just fine, they just won't. Eat too much, too. Drink too much, also. Flirt too......well, not enough. People don't want their bankroll managed or they would do it themselves. They want to get on a hot streak and get all their money back, which happens often enough to keep things interesting.

Quote: dm

Your concept is not helpful. People can manage their bankroll just fine, they just won't. Eat too much, too. Drink too much, also. Flirt too......well, not enough. People don't want their bankroll managed or they would do it themselves. They want to get on a hot streak and get all their money back, which happens often enough to keep things interesting.

I disagree this applies to everyone who gambles. If I do create the app, I know at least I will use it. So really you're not contributing anything to the conversation, your view is that it's a useless app, noted, thanks.

DM -

While bankroll management is a part of it, I think an even bigger part is mere bankroll tracking.

The purpose can be primarily as a tax diary, but I'm sure there are other purposes.