This matter of casino "ethics"
Nah, it's kinda like regular insurance where you pay hefty premiums, and when you finally get paid on a claim, you suddenly realize that you'd have been better off without paying all those premiums.Quote: IbeatyouracesIf there is anything unethical in casinos, its the word "insurance" on any blackjack table. Now I dont have a problem with the bet but that word has got to be the biggest lie in the place. And most dealers will tell you to insure that 19, 20 or blackjack.
The difference is, most BJ players fail to make that realization.
Quote: kpIsn't that pretty much the definition of ethics?
No. Don't confuse right and wrong with like and dislike. And I was specifically referring to the present discussion, not ethics in general. It's a mistake to argue from the premise that "I don't like X, therefore X is unethical" and then attempt to justify the ethics of X based on your preferences. Ethics is almost always relative; morality (which is what I think you're using the term "ethics" to mean) is less often so. Example: in poker, it is ethical to resort to intentional misrepresentation in order to sway the actions of others, whereas in many business settings intentional misrepresentation is not only unethical but illegal.
1. It's all really from our point of view. Players feel that anything they can do is ethical (as they do do it), and anything the casino operator does to stop it is unethical (e.g., back off card counters) when they believe something is fair game.
Please note that I am both sides of the fences: I am a casino worker who is a gambler. I will say that bad apples exist all over the place, and that the Wantanabe incident is a display of horrible and questionable casino behavior.
2. The risk or potential of something that can be mismanaged or dangerous by a user doesn't necessarily make the distributor of it unethical: are Ford Motors or Boeing areospace unethical because people can crash cars or airplanes? The drunk driver or the Terrorists who crash a car, or a Boeing into the World trade Center are the unethical ones. I feel that a casino cheat or shot taker is the unethical one, and not the casino floorman who stops them. Playing by the casino rules is not unethical just because you disagree with them whenever they stop you from hole carding, nor does it make hole-carding become ethical when you get away with it. Players often feel that getting away with an unethical casino maneuver makes it an ethical one, once gotten away with it, cash in pocket. A common syndrome is that successfully committing an unethical act makes it or validates it as an ethical one in the mind of the perpetrator. No one loses any sleep if they cheat on their taxes successfully. They praise themselves and their accountant. The vainglorious high-five.
Gambling serves no valid social or political function.
Addiction and compulsion are at its core.
It is based on self-centered, anti-family behavior.
*hmmm, when am I going to the casino next?*
The same can be said about a bar.Quote: MrVAh, but consider:
Gambling serves no valid social or political function.
Addiction and compulsion are at its core.
It is based on self-centered, anti-family behavior.
Shall we bring back prohabition?
Quote: DJTeddyBearThe same can be said about a bar.
Shall we bring back prohabition?
I would certainly favor a return of Prohibition.
Quote: MrVI would certainly favor a return of Prohibition.
Ain't going to happen.
People police themselves, often choosing to drink and throw dice. good for them.
Live and let live.
Privacy of my own home, ain't hurtin' anybody, but if I get caught I'm off to prison.
Is that fair?
I wish it really WERE "live and let live."
Quote: MrVI would certainly favor a return of Prohibition.
It worked so well the first time..
But how much better a place this world would be if people found joy and satisfaction, 24/7, from the intrinisic pleasures of day to day family life.
What if people didn't want, didn't need, to drink alcohol, do drugs, and gamble?
"I had a dream ..."
Alas and alack ...
Quote: MathExtremistIt's interesting that most people lump gambling in with other traditional vices such as alcohol, tobacco, or harder drugs as opposed to entertainment such as baseball, movies, or video games.
Ever hear of "recreational drugs"; a "social drink"; or a "smoke to calm the nerves"? It's all in how we rationalize it for ourselves, or allow others to do that for us.
At the end of the day, who would bet something (in the name of entertainment) while properly realizing all the types of losses... then, or over the long-run? Would you go to the casino tonight knowing for sure that you were going to lose; let alone call it entertainment tomorrow?
Quote: MrVI don't expect, nor ask for, a return to Prohibition, nor the decriminalization of all drugs.
But how much better a place this world would be if people found joy and satisfaction, 24/7, from the intrinisic pleasures of day to day family life.
What if people didn't want, didn't need, to drink alcohol, do drugs, and gamble?
"I had a dream ..."
Alas and alack ...
Wow..what a fucking fairyland we have over here...y'know, a crap game would never be the same without a few degenerate souls throwing dice with one hand, a shot glass in the other, and bullet-holes scarring their tatoos...they're nasty and fun to deal with, but they're part of the game of life. Not everyone is a member of the Knights of Columbus or Opus Dei.
Some would argue that alcohol, drugs and gambling are the most basic of day to day pleasures of the dysfunctional family life...
The world is a better place with a few degenerates here and there to deal with. Peter Pan is a Christmas story...
Quote: MrV
But how much better a place this world would be if people found joy and satisfaction, 24/7, from the intrinisic pleasures of day to day family life.
What if people didn't want, didn't need, to drink alcohol, do drugs, and gamble?
Why stop there? How about also no internet, computers, telephones, TVs, radio ... cars, antibiotics, vaccines ....
I believe Mr. V is Amish.
Quote: PaigowdanHe'll agree.
I believe Mr. V is Amish.
Well, he is using a computer ...
Other adjectives come to mind.
Dan had made a statement that I thought was out of line. He has removed it, so I removed the quote and my comment about it.
That should explain Dan's reply in the next post.
While I did feel that V. was worthy of a poke in the eye, I was indeed very, very rude to him. True. I shall edit it, and leave it here.
Quote: MrVWhat if I choose to do a few lines of primo Peruvian flake?
Privacy of my own home, ain't hurtin' anybody, but if I get caught I'm off to prison.
Is that fair?
I wish it really WERE "live and let live."
Go ahead and few a few lines of blow. If it's "pharmy" (pharmaceutical) coke, then there's no blood on your hands via the cartel.
If you do time for being in possession of coke, then yeah, do the time - serves you right, it is very fair indeed. (Have a problem with it? - Call a cop!) And ask yourself who will miss you while looking at the walls, or Mandingo your new room-mate.
Don't get caught? then it is live and let live.
Your drug problem? - your business up to a point.
Mai Pen Rai.
Quote: weaselmanWhy stop there? How about also no internet, computers, telephones, TVs, radio ... cars, antibiotics, vaccines ....
And no bombs; nor unfair politics, etc? If the bad outweighs the good, as entropy on a physical level... why not.
Quote: PaigowdanGo ahead and few a few lines of blow.
Actually I don't DO cocaine, Dan: never have; I merely used it as an example.
Nor do I drink: used to, but quit, cold turkey.
Nor do I smoke: used to, but quit, cold turkey.
But, I DO gamble ...
*How can we achieve perfection, shackled to the imperfect, the unethical, as we all are?*
Quote: MrVActually I don't DO cocaine, Dan: never have; I merely used it as an example.
Nor do I drink: used to, but quit, cold turkey.
Nor do I smoke: used to, but quit, cold turkey.
But, I DO gamble ...
*How can we achieve perfection, shackled to the imperfect, the unethical, as we all are?*
One out of three ain't bad!
Quote: MrVAh, but consider:
Gambling serves no valid social or political function.
Addiction and compulsion are at its core.
It is based on self-centered, anti-family behavior.
*hmmm, when am I going to the casino next?*
I was going to say that I disagree in so many ways I won't even attempt to explain. Then, I read you're parting comment and saw no need to post what I just posted.
Quote: PaigowdanAin't going to happen.
People police themselves, often choosing to drink and throw dice. good for them.
Live and let live.
Maybe "good for them" in their own mind, but rarely good for their family or society. Not re dice, of course.
Quote: MrVWhat if I choose to do a few lines of primo Peruvian flake?
Privacy of my own home, ain't hurtin' anybody, but if I get caught I'm off to prison.
Is that fair?
I wish it really WERE "live and let live."
Aren't you aiding in the process of it being available in the first place? That hurts lots of people. I assumed you did not mean singing a song.
Quote: GarnabbyEver hear of "recreational drugs"; a "social drink"; or a "smoke to calm the nerves"? It's all in how we rationalize it for ourselves, or allow others to do that for us.
At the end of the day, who would bet something (in the name of entertainment) while properly realizing all the types of losses... then, or over the long-run? Would you go to the casino tonight knowing for sure that you were going to lose; let alone call it entertainment tomorrow?
Of course, knowing you are going to lose makes no sense. When I used to stay at Reno Peppermill, there was often an elderly lady at one certain dollar slot, and she would play for hours. She could barely see, barely walk. To and from in a cab. Probably loaded with dough. You are silly if you think she did not enjoy it, and have every reason to "enjoy" losing. It was a big part of the life she was able to have.
Quote: PaigowdanOne out of three ain't bad!
I read one out of four.
