Ever had a casino request/require you to spin a winning jackpot combination off after they pay you?
October 23rd, 2011 at 4:29:49 PM
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They expect you to play again with your money. They probably think someone won't play it because someone just won on it.
Mark
Mark
October 23rd, 2011 at 4:39:50 PM
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I won $4000 on a dollar machine at Pechanga a year ago and when the guy brought the cash before he gave it to me he said, "Ok go ahead and spin the reels one more time". I said no, I am done playing, and he said OK. But it did bother me that they would tell me to do play it again so casually, it felt like I was supposed to do it if I wanted to get paid.
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October 23rd, 2011 at 4:44:55 PM
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It may just be that after some sort of hand pay, he is telling you its okay to start playing again on the assumption that is what you intend to do. I don't think he is trying to encourage you to do another spin if you don't want to. After all the fuss about a hand pay there are probably a few onlookers who will gladly take over that machine for you.
October 23rd, 2011 at 4:45:48 PM
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deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
October 23rd, 2011 at 4:49:03 PM
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I seem to remember being asked to do that once or twice, wondering "why," and then reluctantly playing it off. A ridiculous requirement; think it might have been at the Skyline on Boulder where a $500 win is a handpay.
Once I was doing a 4-of-a-kind promo at the Pioneer in Laughlin where they asked you to play it off because they didn't want you "double counting" your quads. Fair enough.
By the way, Mark, I was at your casino a few weekends ago. Nice place. I asked the crew about you, but they said you weren't there. Very good table games staff, and great game rules. Need to do something about the video poker, though. And it wouldn't hurt to put in some windows -- Lake Superior is right outside! :)
Once I was doing a 4-of-a-kind promo at the Pioneer in Laughlin where they asked you to play it off because they didn't want you "double counting" your quads. Fair enough.
By the way, Mark, I was at your casino a few weekends ago. Nice place. I asked the crew about you, but they said you weren't there. Very good table games staff, and great game rules. Need to do something about the video poker, though. And it wouldn't hurt to put in some windows -- Lake Superior is right outside! :)
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
October 23rd, 2011 at 5:05:12 PM
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Quote: teddys.
By the way, Mark, I was at your casino a few weekends ago. Nice place. I asked the crew about you, but they said you weren't there. Very good table games staff, and great game rules. Need to do something about the video poker, though. And it wouldn't hurt to put in some windows -- Lake Superior is right outside! :)
That's good to hear, hope you had fun. While everyone isn't perfect I think we have a solid dealing staff, we stress customer service. I'm glad they at least knew my name.
October 23rd, 2011 at 5:36:27 PM
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They made me do that once when I won a $1,200 jackpot, but this was in the days before TITO and I seem to recall that the jackpot did not affect the number of credits I had left on the machine, so spending another 25 cents didn't bother me one bit (they didn't force me to play full coin, just that I play off the jackpot symbols).
I think there's a technical reason for doing it, but I can't think what it might be. Maybe to show the eye-in-the-sky that there was no hanky panky going on between the slot attendants and me?
With TITO things might have changed since anything under $1,200 can be added directly to the credit counter. I was playing a Blazing 7s machine not long after TITO was instituted and hit the jackpot for around $400 and sat there, waiting for a hand pay like every time before. I caught the attention of a slot attendant who said, "Just hit the cash out button." I suppose I could have just left the symbols showing on the payline.
I think there's a technical reason for doing it, but I can't think what it might be. Maybe to show the eye-in-the-sky that there was no hanky panky going on between the slot attendants and me?
With TITO things might have changed since anything under $1,200 can be added directly to the credit counter. I was playing a Blazing 7s machine not long after TITO was instituted and hit the jackpot for around $400 and sat there, waiting for a hand pay like every time before. I caught the attention of a slot attendant who said, "Just hit the cash out button." I suppose I could have just left the symbols showing on the payline.
October 23rd, 2011 at 8:17:44 PM
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This happened about 2 years ago, I forget where, but I think it was ShowBoat AC.
I don't play slots, but I happened to be meet my wife while she was waiting on a hand-pay.
When it was paid, the attendant asked her to play one more spin.
I DID ask "Why?"
The attendant said it's so that we can't leave and then some other person step up and try to claim it again. Fair enough. Makes sense.
If that second jackpot had hit one spin later, that would be OK too, since the attendant had at least seen the machine hit a non-winner in-between.
I don't play slots, but I happened to be meet my wife while she was waiting on a hand-pay.
When it was paid, the attendant asked her to play one more spin.
I DID ask "Why?"
The attendant said it's so that we can't leave and then some other person step up and try to claim it again. Fair enough. Makes sense.
Imagine the red-tape she would have had if the attendant had not witnessed it.Quote: IbeatyouracesI know casino windsor used to but dont know about now. In fact one time on a silver and gold machine, a lady hit the jackpot and after being paid they made her spin again and she immediately hit the same jackpot. Who says lightning doesnt strike twice.
If that second jackpot had hit one spin later, that would be OK too, since the attendant had at least seen the machine hit a non-winner in-between.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 24th, 2011 at 6:59:16 AM
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Quote: marksolbergThey expect you to play again with your money. They probably think someone won't play it because someone just won on it.
Mark
This happened to me last week. I hit a Royal on 9/6 JoB $.50 for $2000. When they left to do the handpay, they asked me to do one more spin. I would have anyways. When I was here at HSI in April, I hit $1200 on a slot machine with a $20 Slot play. They asked me to spin it off too, but I still had freeplay left, so I would have had to anyways.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
October 24th, 2011 at 11:43:05 AM
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I don't play slots but my wife does and has run into this in Nevada, New Jersey and Connecticut. She once had a $4000 win and it was on her last credits. After getting paid, she was expected to put her own money into the machine for one spin to get the jackpot off the screen. What nerve!
When she declined, they were quite miffed and the slot supervisor spun the reels from inside the machine.
When she declined, they were quite miffed and the slot supervisor spun the reels from inside the machine.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
October 24th, 2011 at 12:30:11 PM
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I would not mind having to indulge the casino multiple times.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
October 24th, 2011 at 1:46:09 PM
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Is this legal? Other than speculations, it seems like no one has answered saying why they really do this. Maybe those in the know are not supposed to say why. But to tell someone they have to take their own money and put it in the machine makes no sense. Again I don't see how this is legal.
OFFICIALLY and justifiably reclaimed my title as SuperHotBlonde!
October 24th, 2011 at 1:56:50 PM
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HotBlonde -
It's a request, not a demand. Personally, since most people will continue on the machine, I don't see it as unreasonable.
As far as no one saying why, you should re-read my post on page 1.
It's a request, not a demand. Personally, since most people will continue on the machine, I don't see it as unreasonable.
Quote: 1BBWhen she declined, they were quite miffed and the slot supervisor spun the reels from inside the machine.
As far as no one saying why, you should re-read my post on page 1.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 24th, 2011 at 2:23:58 PM
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Well help me make sense of it cuz I still don't understand.Quote: DJTeddyBear
I DID ask "Why?"
The attendant said it's so that we can't leave and then some other person step up and try to claim it again. Fair enough. Makes sense.
OFFICIALLY and justifiably reclaimed my title as SuperHotBlonde!
October 24th, 2011 at 2:31:40 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI DID ask "Why?"
The attendant said it's so that we can't leave and then some other person step up and try to claim it again. Fair enough. Makes sense.
Not really. Most slot games tilt when a handpay is triggered. It requires a key-turn to clear the tilt code, so if a slot game shows a handpay-generating outcome but not the handpay message, it will be understood that the tilt was already cleared (and presumably the handpay was paid).
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
October 24th, 2011 at 2:38:27 PM
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Quote: HotBlondeWell help me make sense of it cuz I still don't understand.
DJ got it. It's just to prevent someone from coming up to a j/p left on a machine and trying to claim it as their own.
There's tons of handpays everyday. Leave j/p's up and you'll have a handful of people taking a shot day in and day out. The Attendant would have to present themselves at the machine, the Tech would have to open it up, and if the customer was insistant, Surv would have to get involved with a review. That's a lot of hassle and a lot of manhours wasted over and over again. Or you could take .26 seconds and spin it off. Problem solved.
It's policy that a j/p must be spun off. In the manual it says "Patron must...". If you don't want to for whatever reason, don't. The Supe will just d/l a credit and do it for you.
Edit:
Quote: MathExtremistNot really. Most slot games tilt when a handpay is triggered. It requires a key-turn to clear the tilt code, so if a slot game shows a handpay-generating outcome but not the handpay message, it will be understood that the tilt was already cleared (and presumably the handpay was paid).
Good point, ME. But although the cleared tilt "proves" it has been paid, it would still have to be "proved" again on a claim. "Assumption" isn't something that's encouraged in operations, no matter how obvious the issue is. It always has be be certain beyond a doubt, so the problem of tying up personnel would remain.
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October 24th, 2011 at 2:41:26 PM
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If someone saw a slot machine showing a jackpot, and nobody around, they might be tempted to try to claim it. Frankly, I can't see how anyone would really expect to get away with it, but I can see a rather time-wasting incident because of it.Quote: HotBlondeWell help me make sense of it cuz I still don't understand.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 24th, 2011 at 2:41:40 PM
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Thanks, now it makes sense. However the question that remains is why do they ask the customer to spend their own money to do this to protect the casino? Why don't they just automatically do it themselves? They ask the customer to spend their own money yet it doesn't benefit the customer at all. That doesn't make sense.Quote: FaceDJ got it. It's just to prevent someone from coming up to a j/p left on a machine and trying to claim it as their own.
There's tons of handpays everyday. Leave j/p's up and you'll have a handful of people taking a shot day in and day out. The Attendant would have to present themselves at the machine, the Tech would have to open it up, and if the customer was insistant, Surv would have to get involved with a review. That's a lot of hassle and a lot of manhours wasted over and over again. Or you could take .26 seconds and spin it off. Problem solved.
It's policy that a j/p must be spun off. In the manual it says "Patron must...". If you don't want to for whatever reason, don't. The Supe will just d/l a credit and do it for you.
OFFICIALLY and justifiably reclaimed my title as SuperHotBlonde!
October 24th, 2011 at 2:46:02 PM
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Quote: HotBlondeThanks, now it makes sense. However the question that remains is why do they ask the customer to spend their own money to do this to protect the casino? Why don't they just automatically do it themselves? They ask the customer to spend their own money yet it doesn't benefit the customer at all. That doesn't make sense.
The way it's worded doesn't (to me) emphasize the patron part. It seems more like whoever wrote it had the mindframe that since the patron is pushing buttons, just stick around and watch them push this one off. The emphasis is more on making sure it's off. Like I said, if you hit a handpay, call it a day and don't want to spend one more red cent, then don't. The Supe will get it for you =)
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
October 24th, 2011 at 2:48:39 PM
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Well like 1BB said his wife chose that option and was met with anger from the casino. I'm someone who would choose not to spin again simply for principle and I'm guessing that I would be met with the same response.
OFFICIALLY and justifiably reclaimed my title as SuperHotBlonde!
October 24th, 2011 at 2:58:06 PM
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Face and I were typing at the same time.
---
Why don't they just reset it themselves? Simple.
A - It's a request and most people WILL continue to play, so the request is to play that spin while they are standing there.
B - Most players that were going to continue, would freak out if they insisted on resetting the machine to erase the current display.
It probably seems more like a demand than a request only because the slot attendants are in an unappreciated job and don't have a lot of reason to be in a pleasant mood.
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Why don't they just reset it themselves? Simple.
A - It's a request and most people WILL continue to play, so the request is to play that spin while they are standing there.
B - Most players that were going to continue, would freak out if they insisted on resetting the machine to erase the current display.
It probably seems more like a demand than a request only because the slot attendants are in an unappreciated job and don't have a lot of reason to be in a pleasant mood.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 24th, 2011 at 3:00:59 PM
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Always, but this is based on my pretty small sample.
October 24th, 2011 at 3:12:59 PM
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It has happened to me lots of times that I hit a royal flush, was paid, and they requested I play another hand to get it off the screen. Since I have already played hundreds, or thousands, of hands already what difference will one more make? So I do it. It is my understanding that the reason they do this is to prevent anyone else from claiming he hit the same royal after I leave.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 24th, 2011 at 3:17:00 PM
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DJ's got it again. Those are some good points I'd not thought of of WHY it's specified as "patron".
Met with hostility? It's a customer service job, same as any other. Some are good at it, some are miserable and it shows.
Met with hostility? It's a customer service job, same as any other. Some are good at it, some are miserable and it shows.
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October 24th, 2011 at 3:44:54 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearIt probably seems more like a demand than a request only because the slot attendants are in an unappreciated job and don't have a lot of reason to be in a pleasant mood.
I'd think the opposite -- the handpay attendant's job is to give money to people and congratulate them on their good fortune. How could dealing with happy people all day long be unpleasant?
At any rate, I would think that the right approach would be to simply step back and see if the player continues to play without any request at all. If so, great, the jackpot is off the machine. If they cash out any remaining credits and leave, then just step back to the machine, spin once, and then go on your way. Any reason that procedure wouldn't work? The only one I can think of is if the player just sits there with credits on the machine not playing, perhaps waiting for their spouse to arrive from across the casino. But that seems like an edge case.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
October 24th, 2011 at 3:59:44 PM
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A much more serious problem is people walking away from their credits on the machine after they get a handpay. This happened to me on my very first jackpot ever at MGM Detroit (attendant caught me before I turned the corner around the hallway), and I believe the Wizard wrote about it happening to him, too (they held the money for him and gave it back when he returned).
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
October 24th, 2011 at 4:01:57 PM
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Quote: MathExtremistI'd think the opposite -- the handpay attendant's job is to give money to people and congratulate them on their good fortune. How could dealing with happy people all day long be unpleasant?
Because life. You don't have to be angry with your job to be angry while you're at it.
Quote: MathExtremistAt any rate, I would think that the right approach would be to simply step back and see if the player continues to play without any request at all. If so, great, the jackpot is off the machine. If they cash out any remaining credits and leave, then just step back to the machine, spin once, and then go on your way. Any reason that procedure wouldn't work? The only one I can think of is if the player just sits there with credits on the machine not playing, perhaps waiting for their spouse to arrive from across the casino. But that seems like an edge case.
This is probably how the majority of them go down. In the handpays I see it ranges from getting your money and resuming play (no problem), to getting your money while you yell to your friend at another bank, people coming up to congratulate you, you on the phone with spouse to tell of your good fortune... stuff that eats up time. Slots personnel are there for more than just handpays (although some of them don't seem to get that) so asking that a player plays it off (if they don't do it right away) frees up that person to continue on with their day. If the patron just gets up and leaves, the Supe just does it.
If benbakdoff's wife got an unwelcome response, that's definately a personnel issue and not a policy one. The policy doesn't care, it just wants the combo gone. Slots could spin every one of them off and never catch heat from me.
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October 24th, 2011 at 5:01:15 PM
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That makes sense, but if it's even questionably welcome to make the request, there are lots of ways to phrase the request to spin it off without making it sound like you're following some policy handbook or rushing the player. Here are a few just off the top of my head, each with a different twist:
Slot attendant, after paying handpay:
"That was a great win..." followed by
1) "What do you think are the chances you could do it again?"
2) "If your next spin is a loser, I'll give you a consolation prize of $1."
3) "You know, we had a lady hit the jackpot twice in a row last year..."
#2 is a player-friendly alternative to having the supervisor insert the key and spin the game, and I'm sure there are other ways to say it in an encouraging rather than procedural way. It's all about keeping the players happy. Good casinos know that the only (legitimate) reason players are on the slot floor is for entertainment. If negative run-ins with casino staff kills the buzz, that can have a very serious impact on player loyalty and ADT. I probably sound like Dennis Conrad right now, but if your players aren't always having the best time they can (despite whatever losses they may have incurred) then the casino isn't doing it right.
Slot attendant, after paying handpay:
"That was a great win..." followed by
1) "What do you think are the chances you could do it again?"
2) "If your next spin is a loser, I'll give you a consolation prize of $1."
3) "You know, we had a lady hit the jackpot twice in a row last year..."
#2 is a player-friendly alternative to having the supervisor insert the key and spin the game, and I'm sure there are other ways to say it in an encouraging rather than procedural way. It's all about keeping the players happy. Good casinos know that the only (legitimate) reason players are on the slot floor is for entertainment. If negative run-ins with casino staff kills the buzz, that can have a very serious impact on player loyalty and ADT. I probably sound like Dennis Conrad right now, but if your players aren't always having the best time they can (despite whatever losses they may have incurred) then the casino isn't doing it right.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
October 24th, 2011 at 5:31:14 PM
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It's an unneccesary procedure that can only serve to annoy customers. Even if a casino doesn't have a slot system you can still review game history at the machine.
Mark
Mark
October 24th, 2011 at 5:49:24 PM
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Spot on, ME. The only problem is people. You can teach 100 people the exact secret steps to success, but some will still fail. I know Slots people that are CS magicians. They even brighten my day just by knowing they are here and if I have to deal with Slots, it'll be an enjoyable experience. There are others that either can't take in the training or don't give a rip, and you end up with surly folks huffing about having to spin a patrons' j/p. Like I said, it's not a policy problem, is a personnel problem. Some are probably creative like your examples. Some don't even bother and just spin it themselves. Some "don't get it" and get huffy about having the patron do it. You'll find the same in any CS related job. It's no biggie for the patron, if you don't want to spin, don't. If they get surly, spare them your tip.
I disagree though Mark about being unnecessary. It's unnecessary to hassle the patron, absolutely, but it needs to be spun off. Like I said, it takes but a moment to spin it and the issue's over. If it's left and someone takes a shot, the Attendant/Supe has to come over, they have to notify a Tech who has to come over, he has to notify Surv that he's entering the machine and they have to watch it, he's gotta MEAL book it and go through the steps of verifying... add up the time this takes x's how many times a day it happens x's 365 x's the salaries involved. Would you rather pay that out of pocket... or push a button?
I disagree though Mark about being unnecessary. It's unnecessary to hassle the patron, absolutely, but it needs to be spun off. Like I said, it takes but a moment to spin it and the issue's over. If it's left and someone takes a shot, the Attendant/Supe has to come over, they have to notify a Tech who has to come over, he has to notify Surv that he's entering the machine and they have to watch it, he's gotta MEAL book it and go through the steps of verifying... add up the time this takes x's how many times a day it happens x's 365 x's the salaries involved. Would you rather pay that out of pocket... or push a button?
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
October 24th, 2011 at 6:09:17 PM
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Quote: Face.
I disagree though Mark about being unnecessary. It's unnecessary to hassle the patron, absolutely, but it needs to be spun off. Like I said, it takes but a moment to spin it and the issue's over. If it's left and someone takes a shot, the Attendant/Supe has to come over, they have to notify a Tech who has to come over, he has to notify Surv that he's entering the machine and they have to watch it, he's gotta MEAL book it and go through the steps of verifying... add up the time this takes x's how many times a day it happens x's 365 x's the salaries involved. Would you rather pay that out of pocket... or push a button?
We stopped the practice years ago. I think we had a patron try to claim a jackpot one time and by the time we said we had to call a tech they disappeared. Of course we're a relatively small casino.
I'm sure you know how easy it is to look at the event log recorded by the slot system. Besides 95+% of the time the patron continues to play without having to be asked.
October 24th, 2011 at 6:32:13 PM
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Quote: MathExtremistI'd think the opposite -- the handpay attendant's job is to give money to people and congratulate them on their good fortune. How could dealing with happy people all day long be unpleasant?
Happy people who don't tip, perhaps?
I recall several suggestions that tipping the hand-pay slot attendant is superflous.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
October 24th, 2011 at 7:21:26 PM
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Quote: HotBlondeThanks, now it makes sense. However the question that remains is why do they ask the customer to spend their own money to do this to protect the casino? Why don't they just automatically do it themselves? They ask the customer to spend their own money yet it doesn't benefit the customer at all. That doesn't make sense.
If they didn't give the customer a chance to take the next spin can you imagine the screaming when the casino takes that spin and a jackpot comes up. The player would be all over them about the casino stealing their win.
Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
October 24th, 2011 at 7:46:42 PM
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Unless I'm mistaken, the slot attendant - hoping for a tip - was all smiles.Quote: MathExtremistI'd think the opposite -- the handpay attendant's job is to give money to people and congratulate them on their good fortune. How could dealing with happy people all day long be unpleasant?
It was the slot supervisor / security person - not a tip recipient - who requested the spin.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 24th, 2011 at 8:41:31 PM
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Well I wasn't thinking about the fact that a hand payout and cashing out were two different things. I was thinking about it in the case of the person hitting the jackpot and cashing out.
I can understand if the customer sat there and wanted to continue playing and the casino personnel waiting a second and watching as they clear the win off the screen. But in the case where the person is getting payed out and wanting to cash out at the same time I don't see where it would be appropriate for the casino to ask them to spend their own money to play again for the casino's benefit. Could the customer win more on that pull? Sure, but that's beside the point.
I can understand if the customer sat there and wanted to continue playing and the casino personnel waiting a second and watching as they clear the win off the screen. But in the case where the person is getting payed out and wanting to cash out at the same time I don't see where it would be appropriate for the casino to ask them to spend their own money to play again for the casino's benefit. Could the customer win more on that pull? Sure, but that's beside the point.
OFFICIALLY and justifiably reclaimed my title as SuperHotBlonde!
November 1st, 2011 at 10:58:21 AM
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I think another major reason they request this is because a lot of superstitious gamblers won't play a machine that just hit big thinking that it won't pay out again soon. I'd guess this is a bigger reason than dealing with people claiming they just rehit the payout (since that is so easy to disprove).
