What's your -ev gambling vice?

Mine is multiplers.
When bored, I used to play 5cent triple play stp (6/5 bp) video poker. It's 97.1%.
On the same machine is .25 8/5 JoB (97.3%) single line.

Besides being slightly cheaper, I like the added excitement of multiplers.
I find JoB boring so I'm willing to give up .2% ev at $0.75/spin.
That's just a fraction of a penny in ev per spin I'm losing over JoB.

Well, they got rid of it at nickles. It's now .25 Denom so $3.75/spin.
Kinda expensive to play -ev because I'm bored.

Then I saw they have a new -ev Buffalo slot with 4x/5x multiplers at $2/spin.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/41653-bored-lost-500-2-spin/

Oh that went horribly. :(
As DarkOz said in that thread, I could have rented a hooker for less than what I lost.

What's your -ev gambling vice?

online sportsbetting has made me into someone who feels a little funny going -EV

however, I see a casino visit in my future and will play Craps and Ultimate Texas Holdem.
Haven't been in a casino since Dec 2023

I'm getting nowhere playing Video Poker. Just losing and losing and by the time a Royal Flush comes around, I'll still be losing. I can only play it to play off free play.

My usual stop has a few 3:2 (5 for 2) video blackjack machines hidden in the back corner.

Video blackjack is ridiculously boring, but fast and easy to redeem freeplay. (The rules make it slightly better than 9-5 Jacks VP, which is their next best RTP.)

If I'm just buying amusement for a few bucks, I like old IGT games like Wild Taxi.

Quote: Dieter

My usual stop has a few 3:2 (5 for 2) video blackjack machines hidden in the back corner.

Video blackjack is ridiculously boring, but fast and easy to redeem freeplay. (The rules make it slightly better than 9-5 Jacks VP, which is their next best RTP.)

If I'm just buying amusement for a few bucks, I like old IGT games like Wild Taxi.
link to original post

This is v-BJ at one of my casinos:


Bj pays 1:1 but 6card Charlie is a win and dealer stands at 6cards.
What's the house edge?

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Dieter

My usual stop has a few 3:2 (5 for 2) video blackjack machines hidden in the back corner.

Video blackjack is ridiculously boring, but fast and easy to redeem freeplay. (The rules make it slightly better than 9-5 Jacks VP, which is their next best RTP.)

If I'm just buying amusement for a few bucks, I like old IGT games like Wild Taxi.
link to original post

This is v-BJ at one of my casinos:


Bj pays 1:1 but 6card Charlie is a win and dealer stands at 6cards.
What's the house edge?
link to original post

House edge? Awful.
You might get a better return just dropping your $2 bills in the fireplace.
Can't you find a nice 7-5 BP to play? ;)

Quote: 100xOdds

..., I could have rented a hooker for less than what I lost.

What's your -ev gambling vice?
link to original post

You said it right there! I get solicited at Resorts World. I get solicited at Rio. I get solicited Downtown, and on the walkways mid-Strip.

They walk up and say "Hey, you look like the kind of loser who has to pay for it! Want to have a good time?"

Then I say "No thanks. I'm not into bestiality."


In terms of betting: probably getting my VP play in, I have a good idea of how much action I need to give, but of course VP has a hypnotizing effect and I can go into "one... more.... turn..." mode easily enough and then "Wait, how many did I play?" No big deal being I'm not playing something awful.

Quote: ChumpChange

I'm getting nowhere playing Video Poker. Just losing and losing and by the time a Royal Flush comes around, I'll still be losing. I can only play it to play off free play.
link to original post

If you are playing-EV Video poker then you should be losing. However, I don't know how you can determine you will be down by the the time a Royal comes? What if you start running super good on 4 of a kinds and Str8 flushes, get back most of your money and then hit a Royal?

My current home game has me down $2K in 17K hands of VP. But at least I got an upgrade to allow for different denominations of 25 cent, 50 cents, and $1 and playing 1 to 5 coins; plus it beeps and shows when I have a winning hand before I draw cards. If I hit a Royal with 50 cents at 5 coins I could win $2K back. But recently my big wins that put me over a $1K bankroll has crashed to under $500 at the 50 cent 5-coin denom. I'll have to lower back to 25 cent at 5-coin denom below the $500 bankroll. I get $25 of free play per day on this home game. I mostly play Double Double Bonus Poker. The game seems rigged for how badly it doesn't win.

Don't take it as arrogance, kind of the opposite in that I'm curious about why I'm so odd.

I find anything that's -EV to be revolting. Although I'll occasionally shell out $1 for a lotto ticket that could change my life against unfathomable odds (50% -EV does not escape me so there's the answer).

In general though, I "gamble" daily on skills competitions where I have a huge +EV (if you count that) and I can't imagine putting money at risk in other people's -EV schemes. I did... when younger and had a lot of discretionary income so I get why craps and slots are "fun", but now I view it like most people would view playing three card monte on the street. I suppose you could say I lack boredom as a driver.

Where I AM "arrogant" is presuming that almost no one who plays -EV games really understands the actual odds, math, or that the gambler's fallacy IS. But I come to this forum because many readers, like the Wizard himself, really do understand all that and continue to enjoy -EV gambling. So this is fascinating to me.

Maybe it's like how I generally only eat healthy but once in a while indulge in a burger or pizza??? though those who make and sell -EV foods aren't trying to suck out my health to enhance their own.

Quote: dcjohn

Where I AM "arrogant" is presuming that almost no one who plays -EV games really understands the actual odds, math, or that the gambler's fallacy IS. But I come to this forum because many readers, like the Wizard himself, really do understand all that and continue to enjoy -EV gambling. So this is fascinating to me.

link to original post

Speaking strictly for myself, I've never won cash back playing pinball or Galaga, and I find the noises and animations on certain slot machines similarly amusing. I expect to lose, but sometimes my intentions are confounded, and I'm stuck with extra lunch money.

Quote: dcjohn

Don't take it as arrogance, kind of the opposite in that I'm curious about why I'm so odd.

I find anything that's -EV to be revolting. Although I'll occasionally shell out $1 for a lotto ticket that could change my life against unfathomable odds (50% -EV does not escape me so there's the answer).

In general though, I "gamble" daily on skills competitions where I have a huge +EV (if you count that) and I can't imagine putting money at risk in other people's -EV schemes. I did... when younger and had a lot of discretionary income so I get why craps and slots are "fun", but now I view it like most people would view playing three card monte on the street. I suppose you could say I lack boredom as a driver....

Playing the Three-Card Monte is +EV, for me. But I only do it to the guy once. After that, things can go bad. And it would be unsporting.

After all the niche stuff I've done at the tables, I've figured out never to assume what another player is doing or whether it's good or bad. I read things posted here about gaming that don't make much sense to me, and it could be that the poster doesn't know what he's talking about, or it could be that it's just me who doesn't know what he's talking about and other people are reading between the lines. Nobody owes me an explanation.

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Playing the Three-Card Monte is +EV, for me.

Please share.

If they are doing it right, it's impossible to win. Unless, of course, they want someome to win a small amount, thinking they will make larger bets.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Playing the Three-Card Monte is +EV, for me.

Please share.

If they are doing it right, it's impossible to win. Unless, of course, they want someome to win a small amount, thinking they will make larger bets.
link to original post

It's an exercise in humility. Humility is the mother of all virtues, according to the saints.

You start out with what you just said- "It's impossible to win." Perhaps! So don't trust what you believe you saw. Trust that you have been beaten. If you have to choose A, B, or C, and you are absolutely certain you saw the card go to A, could not be any more clear, the target card or ball or whatever is in position A, applying your humility and accepting that you are wrong- where can you now be sure the card is not?

Now you have a 50-50 bet! But when there are no immediate takers, a card thrower will usually have a shill in the crowd who will take the challenge and turn over one of the other cards, and he is always wrong. Let's say he turns over B- "Aw shucks, not there." Now you are faced with a choice: the card thrower is offering you A or C, but because you have already excluded A by knowing you are wrong, you now know the target card is at position C, and you will win. And it all starts with admitting you are wrong!

The guy who throws cards is typically a guy without humility and he will not understand what you just did. He was as certain he has everyone fooled as ordinary people are certain the card is in position A. And if he has a shill, he has a witness, and if he feels like he is being made a fool of while those subordinate to him are watching he also adheres to a code which requires him to act in a certain way, and then we play a different kind of game! But I don't like that game so much which is why I don't do it more than once to a guy, I treat it like a religious act rather than a regular case of AP.

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Playing the Three-Card Monte is +EV, for me.

Please share.

If they are doing it right, it's impossible to win. Unless, of course, they want someome to win a small amount, thinking they will make larger bets.
link to original post

It's an exercise in humility. Humility is the mother of all virtues, according to the saints.

You start out with what you just said- "It's impossible to win." Perhaps! So don't trust what you believe you saw. Trust that you have been beaten. If you have to choose A, B, or C, and you are absolutely certain you saw the card go to A, could not be any more clear, the target card or ball or whatever is in position A, applying your humility and accepting that you are wrong- where can you now be sure the card is not?

Now you have a 50-50 bet! But when there are no immediate takers, a card thrower will usually have a shill in the crowd who will take the challenge and turn over one of the other cards, and he is always wrong. Let's say he turns over B- "Aw shucks, not there." Now you are faced with a choice: the card thrower is offering you A or C, but because you have already excluded A by knowing you are wrong, you now know the target card is at position C, and you will win. And it all starts with admitting you are wrong!

The guy who throws cards is typically a guy without humility and he will not understand what you just did. He was as certain he has everyone fooled as ordinary people are certain the card is in position A. And if he has a shill, he has a witness, and if he feels like he is being made a fool of while those subordinate to him are watching he also adheres to a code which requires him to act in a certain way, and then we play a different kind of game! But I don't like that game so much which is why I don't do it more than once to a guy, I treat it like a religious act rather than a regular case of AP.
link to original post

From what I have seen during 3 card monty, the Queen(or whatever the target card is), it's never really there, or some sleight of hand would happen after the fact as to never be left up to chance. If by chance it is there and you pick correctly when a significant amount of money is on the line, there would be no payment made. There would be a distraction. The table would be kicked over, he would accuse you of being a cop, claim the cops are coming, accuse you of cheating, marking the cards, etc, whatever.

I have seen a significant amount of 3-card monte played. There are times on the Las Vegas strip and downtown when they have well-organized crews running the scam, sometimes up to 3 podiums going at once. The crews include lookouts with radio earpieces, shills/props, lures, choke points, and mussel.

Quote: dcjohn

Where I AM "arrogant" is presuming that almost no one who plays -EV games really understands the actual odds, math, or that the gambler's fallacy IS. But I come to this forum because many readers, like the Wizard himself, really do understand all that and continue to enjoy -EV gambling. So this is fascinating to me.

I think it's straightforward. People pay for entertainment. In this case the entertainment is the fact that you might win. Obviously if you don't get anything from that then you shouldn't play -EV games. Just like if you don't enjoy watching football you should not pay hundreds of dollars to watch it.

I had a friend who would often play in the world series of poker main event. One year I asked him if he was playing. He said no, his wife wanted to go on a vacation at that time. Then he said, it will still cost me $10k; I just won't have a chance to win $8M.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Playing the Three-Card Monte is +EV, for me.

Please share.

If they are doing it right, it's impossible to win. Unless, of course, they want someome to win a small amount, thinking they will make larger bets.
link to original post

It's an exercise in humility. Humility is the mother of all virtues, according to the saints.

You start out with what you just said- "It's impossible to win." Perhaps! So don't trust what you believe you saw. Trust that you have been beaten. If you have to choose A, B, or C, and you are absolutely certain you saw the card go to A, could not be any more clear, the target card or ball or whatever is in position A, applying your humility and accepting that you are wrong- where can you now be sure the card is not?

Now you have a 50-50 bet! But when there are no immediate takers, a card thrower will usually have a shill in the crowd who will take the challenge and turn over one of the other cards, and he is always wrong. Let's say he turns over B- "Aw shucks, not there." Now you are faced with a choice: the card thrower is offering you A or C, but because you have already excluded A by knowing you are wrong, you now know the target card is at position C, and you will win. And it all starts with admitting you are wrong!

The guy who throws cards is typically a guy without humility and he will not understand what you just did. He was as certain he has everyone fooled as ordinary people are certain the card is in position A. And if he has a shill, he has a witness, and if he feels like he is being made a fool of while those subordinate to him are watching he also adheres to a code which requires him to act in a certain way, and then we play a different kind of game! But I don't like that game so much which is why I don't do it more than once to a guy, I treat it like a religious act rather than a regular case of AP.
link to original post

From what I have seen during 3 card monty, the Queen(or whatever the target card is), it's never really there, or some sleight of hand would happen after the fact as to never be left up to chance. If by chance it is there and you pick correctly when a significant amount of money is on the line, there would be no payment made. There would be a distraction. The table would be kicked over, he would accuse you of being a cop, claim the cops are coming, accuse you of cheating, marking the cards, etc, whatever.

I have seen a significant amount of 3-card monte played. There are times on the Las Vegas strip and downtown when they have well-organized crews running the scam, sometimes up to 3 podiums going at once. The crews include lookouts with radio earpieces, shills/props, lures, choke points, and mussel.
link to original post

That's a different kind of thing you're describing and it doesn't exist much anymore. I haven't seen cards thrown at all in Vegas in a couple of years. The biggest problem with that is economic, in that if you want a crew you have to pay them all and a Monte or shell game won't do that. You are much better off with one shill who is also a sleight guy, and not making any trouble or any enemies. Let your skill do the work. There's no way to hide anything on the street anymore so the best you can hope for is forbearance from the police and having a bunch of felons with you and menacing people is going to make you a priority.

I've never played and not gotten paid. The last time I actually played was literally on the Deuce, with the guy throwing on a cardboard box on his lap. Got my $20 and he kept wanting me to play again, which I declined. He thought he just blew his sleight and he would get me next time with a different move. Now he was doing it right- sure he had a shill but as long as he doesn't make any trouble and anger the bus driver he's going to be able to do that all day and with new marks at every bus stop.