My new hobby, and how to finance it
Quote: billryanGoing over my inventory and memorializing the months events.
Without the need for warm clothing, my budget bought more food and resulted in handing out over 160 bags. I worked out my first barter deal- sending three dozen blankets to a charity in Denver, where it is still winter.
My income declined this month as the monthly dividend dropped from $1.51 to $1.11, but I have some surplus funds to help alleviate this month's deficit.
I'm trying something new this week. The new bags have a couple single serving peanut butters, crackers, a banana, applesauce, a handful of grapes, a pair of socks, a toothbrush/toothpaste and some adult body wipes. Each bag has been reduced significantly, but I'll have more volume.
The shower truck begins this week, and I've started doing a weekly shift at a Catholic Workers' food kitchen, where I'm finding several like-minded people. In the volunteer's room, there is a photo with a Spanish language inscription that translates to something like this-
Those who don't think there is a point in helping the homeless have never allowed themselves to look into the eyes of a person who just received an unexpected act of kindness.
Another poster reminds us- Our job isn't to judge. Our job isn't to determine who is worthy of our help. Our tasks are simple: to lift the fallen, restore the broken, and begin to heal the hurt.
Heal them all, let God sort them out.
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And all this do-gooder feel tingly I'm the hero work reduced the homeless population by exactly, zero. It's not meant to reduce the homeless population it's meant to keep it going. It's a symbiotic relationship, they need each other desperately. There's no other explanation. Lol
https://ciceroinstitute.org/research/sex-offenders-an-overlooked-but-significant-subpopulation-of-the-homeless/
it is listed that somewhere between 0.06 to 0.13, or 6% to 13%, of the homeless in Arizona are in the sex offender registry. It is 6% of Arizona's total homeless population, but as much as 13% of the total unsheltered homeless population. Some homeless persons identify shelters as their home and are called sheltered homeless persons, but in many states said shelters are known to refuse to admit homeless persons into the shelter who are on the sex offender registry.
This sex offender subpopulation of the Arizona homeless may be due in part to the governmental policies on how to treat violent sex offenders -which essentially incapacitate them. But it is also relevant to the risk with which the homeless population might be viewed.
Arizona is not exceptional among U.S. states in these statistics. I'm not citing Arizona to impute shame on them; I specifically call out Arizona's statistics because those are the stats that may be relevant to the discussion in this thread.
\]Quote: billryanThe Cicero Institute is leading the fight to outlaw homelessness, so I doubt they'd publish anything that contradicts their agenda of spreading fear. I always did wonder who reads their crap.
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Fear of the homeless? Fear of people who commit crimes every day with their drug use, their violence, their property crimes and God knows what else. Why on Earth would we ever want to outlaw that? Why, we need more people like that and more people like you to feed them and encourage them to keep living that lifestyle. They need you and you need them, it's a symbiotic relationship. They get to survive another day and you get to feel super goody goody about yourself and put your shoulder out of joint patting yourself on the back.
Quote: billryanThe Cicero Institute is leading the fight to outlaw homelessness, so I doubt they'd publish anything that contradicts their agenda of spreading fear. I always did wonder who reads their crap.
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If you were one of the people who reads their crap, you would know that this article takes a sympathetic position, towards both the homeless and sex offenders.
That these people are sex offenders is well known. Now one discrepancy (and injustice, in my opinion) is that in some states, one can end up a registered sex offender for doing something all men and most women have done at least once- taking a leak in public. That's something a bum does every day, and while it could be done for sexual gratification (as could anything) in the overwhelming majority of instances it is not. One can also end up a sex offender by doing something that is legal in Nevada in a licensed facility- being or patronizing a prostitute- and that is also an act which when between consenting adults is hard to characterize as a danger to the public that we need protection from. But besides that, actual sexual misbehavior is part of the skill set of this depraved and self-centered population. I've seen it.
In Vegas I see a lot of bums, male bums walking around wearing that which pertaineth to a woman. They're not fooling anyone, in the condition they are in. I also see the transvestites on the Strip and Downtown and they don't fool me, but some drunk and inexperienced farm kid, they might well successfully deceive. And I suspect most of them will end up in the former category, as a bum with a beard and a pink ribbon in his hair, staggering around in a skirt. Just one more of a long series of bad choices that leads one to unsheltered homelessness.
They famously wanted to outlaw people leaving water out on private party.
Quote: billryanThe Cicero Institute is leading the fight to outlaw homelessness, so I doubt they'd publish anything that contradicts their agenda of spreading fear. I always did wonder who reads their crap.
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I'm not afraid of information. I read all sorts of stuff. The article by Cicero that I posted a link to was scholarly and non-partisan and was based on research performed by a Florida university. You might have known that if you had read it.
And I can certainly imagine you sitting around on a couch in the evening in Arizona thinking "I wonder for the hundredth time who reads that crap that the Cicero Institute publishes?" Thank you for sharing this poignant picture of yourself.
Quote: gordonm888Quote: billryanThe Cicero Institute is leading the fight to outlaw homelessness, so I doubt they'd publish anything that contradicts their agenda of spreading fear. I always did wonder who reads their crap.
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I'm not afraid of information. I read all sorts of stuff. The article by Cicero that I posted a link to was scholarly and non-partisan and was based on research performed by a Florida university. You might have known that if you had read it.
And I can certainly imagine you sitting around on a couch in the evening in Arizona thinking "I wonder for the hundredth time who reads that crap that the Cicero Institute publishes?" Thank you for sharing this poignant picture of yourself.
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Dehumanize the homeless and those who defend them. Where have I seen that before?
Quote: billryan
Dehumanize the homeless and those who defend them. Where have I seen that before?
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What have you done for the people they have harmed, and continue to harm?
Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: billryan
Dehumanize the homeless and those who defend them. Where have I seen that before?
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What have you done for the people they have harmed, and continue to harm?
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You just hit the nail on the head. We now live in a society where criminals are the victims and the real victims get ignored as collateral damage. We don't have to help the real victims, we're supposed to coddle and feel sorry for the criminals. Feed them, be nice to them, so they can go on being the lowlifes of society and continue preying on us.
The voters approved eight million dollars to transform the park into the 21st Century, whatever that means. After a week-long campaign to relocate the homeless, the city cleared the few holdouts yesterday and enclosed the entire park wth a six-foot fence.
The city placed 27 people into housing/shelters. The park will be closed until the summer of 2026.
On May 2nd, the city approved a grant for the El Camino, a 1950s-era motel that the Catholic Workers recently bought and are renovating. When completed, the complex will offer permanent housing to forty senior homeless residents as well as a soup kitchen/ shower facility. Each resident will put in 200 hours of sweat equity, and time in the soup kitchen each week.
Tomorrow is the first day the shower truck will be available at the soup kitchen. It was months in the planning and involved many more hurdles than I knew. My only contribution was a check; this is the fruit of many hours of work by volunteers.
If the reports are accurate, the next Pope will be a Franciscan.
200 hours a week seems like working people until they drop.
Quote: DieterIs that an extra zero?
200 hours a week seems like working people until they drop.
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You missed the invisible comma. It should read- 200 hours of sweat equity, and work in the kitchen weekly.
They will each work 200 hours on the reconstruction project, which will open in December. Once it is up and running with 40 residents, each would work a once-a-week shift. I was surprised to see that several of the volunteers are homeless themselves.
Quote: billryanQuote: DieterIs that an extra zero?
200 hours a week seems like working people until they drop.
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They will each work 200 hours on the reconstruction project, which is scheduled to open in December. Once it is up and running with 40 residents, each would work a once-a-week shift. I was surprised to see that several of the volunteers are homeless themselves.
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Ahh, got it. A 200 hour initial investment, plus ongoing weekly time contributions.
Quote: DieterQuote: billryanQuote: DieterIs that an extra zero?
200 hours a week seems like working people until they drop.
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They will each work 200 hours on the reconstruction project, which is scheduled to open in December. Once it is up and running with 40 residents, each would work a once-a-week shift. I was surprised to see that several of the volunteers are homeless themselves.
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Ahh, got it. A 200 hour initial investment, plus ongoing weekly time contributions.
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Correct. Pride of ownership and all that.
In the 1950s, the area of Tucson between 22nd and 29th Avenues and 6th Street to 4th was lined with motels, motor courts, and was famous for its Mexican cuisine. The Tucson Greyhound track drew thousands each day of the season, and the area was quite prosperous. Now it is a half mile of abandoned buildings, many burnt out after years of being closed. The dog track burned down but the insurance had lapsed, so there was no money to rebuild or clear the wreckage.
People just pull their cars or vans over and sell burritos , fry bread and street tacos, as well as some indigenous foods that have targeted audiences.
There is a woman who sells breakfast burritos, 3/$5. After intensive negotiations, I got her to sell me 17 for $25, twice a week.
I met her at 5 AM and ate two of them. Handing out the burritos and a bottle of water to a dozen people took ten minutes. .
Breakfast is, after all, the most important meal of the day.
I'm having my home re-piped today, so I expect several days of disruption. My home's galvanized pipes have an expected serviceable life of 50 years, and was built in 1973..
It has a new roof, new HVAC, and new water heater. My next project is to enclose my screened porch and make it a true Arizona room.
Right now, that room is under-used as it is either too hot or too cold 270 days a year.
Quote: rxwineHow often and how long do you see the exact same people you give food to?
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Forever obviously, lol. All he does is give them things to keep them going in their present lifestyle, he does absolutely nothing to help them out of their predicament. It's a symbiotic relationship, they need each other desperately.
Quote: rxwineHow often and how long do you see the exact same people you give food to?
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I don't give anyone food daily. There are a couple of older people I try to find a couple of times a week, but generally, I engage targets of opportunity. Some days I go east, sometimes north, and other days south.
I'm volunteering at a food kitchen and see a lot of the same people there each day, but not in my own drives.
I saw a couple of young men talking in a parking lot. As I pulled up, one of them broke away and walked off quickly
After giving bags to the two guys, I drove towards the guy who split. As I got near, he started screaming, in a demonic gutteral voice that people needed to leave him the F alone.
We were about fifteen feet apart and I held up a bag of food and asked if he was hungry.
The raging madman disappeared in a heartbeat, replaced by a vulnerable young kid who was scared and hungry. He asked me if I had any water and guzzled down three pint bottles before devouring the orange slices in the bag. We spoke for a while, and he claimed to be a Navy vet who got kicked out and isn't eligible for any support services. He said he wanted to work but couldn't get an interview because he lacked clothing and hygiene. I gave him two new t-shirts and a pack of body wipes, and told him about two places where he could get a weekly shower and some grooming. I asked him what he needed, and he said he'd like a notebook, some pens, and a rich girlfriend.
Quote: billryan(...) and he said he'd like a notebook, some pens, and a rich girlfriend.
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"May you find what you're looking for."
Personally, I like the composition books that are a good deal at the clearance sale after the annual back to school sale.
Are you finding a sweet price/quality point on backpacks?
They are cheaper and the people see right away I'm not handing them a bag of dirty diapers or weeks-old Taco Bell.
The drawstrings were around fifty cents, and the storage bags are less than a dime. I picked up 500 Texas Steakhouse takeout bags, but feel strange handing out bags that suggest there is steak inside.
Quote: billryanSeveral companies now sell kits for the homeless, but they are overpriced, and for me shopping for the cheapest prices is half the fun.
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I tend to agree.
Clear zippy bags don't work for my purpose, but drawstring sacks might. Thanks.
Quote: billryanEncounter of the week.
I saw a couple of young men talking in a parking lot. As I pulled up, one of them broke away and walked off quickly
After giving bags to the two guys, I drove towards the guy who split. As I got near, he started screaming, in a demonic gutteral voice that people needed to leave him the F alone.
We were about fifteen feet apart and I held up a bag of food and asked if he was hungry.
The raging madman disappeared in a heartbeat, replaced by a vulnerable young kid who was scared and hungry. He asked me if I had any water and guzzled down three pint bottles before devouring the orange slices in the bag. We spoke for a while, and he claimed to be a Navy vet who got kicked out and isn't eligible for any support services. He said he wanted to work but couldn't get an interview because he lacked clothing and hygiene. I gave him two new t-shirts and a pack of body wipes, and told him about two places where he could get a weekly shower and some grooming. I asked him what he needed, and he said he'd like a notebook, some pens, and a rich girlfriend.
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You should have special cards printed it up with your name and address and instructions how they can come to your house to take a shower. You can move into a whole new realm of homeless care. I knew guys in Santa Barbara who did that, went to the Greyhound bus station and gave young guys arriving in town a card with their name and address on it. They were big-hearted generous guys just like you.
Quote: billryanTucson has a long tradition of street vendors. Although they are illegal, they are not enforced, for the most part.
People just pull their cars or vans over and sell burritos , fry bread and street tacos, as well as some indigenous foods that have targeted audiences.
I still have not tried Fry bread. My wife raves about it and a customer at my local watering hole in Vegas owned a Fry bread truck but I never had it.
Quote: DRichQuote: billryanTucson has a long tradition of street vendors. Although they are illegal, they are not enforced, for the most part.
People just pull their cars or vans over and sell burritos , fry bread and street tacos, as well as some indigenous foods that have targeted audiences.
I still have not tried Fry bread. My wife raves about it and a customer at my local watering hole in Vegas owned a Fry bread truck but I never had it.
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The next time you pass through a Native reservation, try to find some. It's good, but I wouldn't go very far to eat it.
I'm heading into Apache Nation this week to visit the legendary town of Two Guns, and plan on visiting the Apache Death Cave.
Have you ever considered a ‘GoFundMe’ type thing to raise funds and expand your ability to provide help?
I assume there is enough need for you locally you could easily scale up if you had more resources?
Quote: SOOPOOMore on point with the thread’s intent….
Have you ever considered a ‘GoFundMe’ type thing to raise funds and expand your ability to provide help?
I assume there is enough need for you locally you could easily scale up if you had more resources?
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I am considering several things, but in general, I oppose GoFundMe-type fundraisers. My sister was originally going to send me $200 a month, but I convinced her to feed the poor around her instead. She and her Daughter provided over two hundred sets of gloves, hats and socks last winter , and found a few like minded individuals to help them on Long Island.
There are more than enough poor folks everywhere.
Scaling up means more room, more paperwork, etc. In the winter, I kept the food on my screened-in porch, but the temperature is pushing 100, and I've had to make room in my spare bedroom, as most food needs to be stored somewhere cool and dry.
I was worried shrinking dividends and falling stock prices would put a dent in the operations, but that seems to have passed.
Lastly, I'd feel obligated if I took other people's money. If I decide to take a few days off using my own money, I have no one to answer to.
At my age, I want to enjoy being retired and pursuing my hobbies. An hour or two a few days a week and self-funding work for me.
I can't solve the problem and until people recognize the homeless as our neighbors and not some invasive species, no one will.
The homeless people who wander around all day doing nothing are not people who are just down on their luck. They are lazy bums who expect handouts so they can continue to feed their drug addictions. The ones who want to earn more money than just the handouts steal merchandise and sell it to people.
The bums will never go away as long as people continue to make excuses for them and enable them.
Quote: KevinAAHomeless people who are just down on their luck are at the homeless shelter using social services to improve their lot in life.
The homeless people who wander around all day doing nothing are not people who are just down on their luck. They are lazy bums who expect handouts so they can continue to feed their drug addictions. The ones who want to earn more money than just the handouts steal merchandise and sell it to people.
The bums will never go away as long as people continue to make excuses for them and enable them.
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The shelters in Tucson are at 100% capacity with a waitlist.
Are the people who can't get into the shelter all lazy bums? Is it your place to judge people you know nothing about?
Quote: billryanQuote: KevinAAHomeless people who are just down on their luck are at the homeless shelter using social services to improve their lot in life.
The homeless people who wander around all day doing nothing are not people who are just down on their luck. They are lazy bums who expect handouts so they can continue to feed their drug addictions. The ones who want to earn more money than just the handouts steal merchandise and sell it to people.
The bums will never go away as long as people continue to make excuses for them and enable them.
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The shelters in Tucson are at 100% capacity with a waitlist.
Are the people who can't get into the shelter all lazy bums? Is it your place to judge people you know nothing about?
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I do think almost all opinions on this are not without controversy. What if you could provide a spare room for one or more of these people. And let's say they cause zero issues while they live in the room. How long would you keep providing them free meals, if they did nothing to start finding a way to provide for themselves? We know there are blind, disabled, and mentally challenged people working jobs. I see baggers at the local grocery story that are very nice people and do their job well but aren't exactly mental giants.
If I don't judge the homeless for their circumstances, I can't judge people for their opinions.
Anyway, I'll leave it there.
In NY, I had a friend call me at 4 AM after fighting with his wife. He asked me to sleep on my couch for two weeks to save money for a room deposit. A month later, he was still there, and we agreed on $50 a week for two more weeks. A few months later, he was $300 behind and taking advantage.
I kept giving him ultimatums, and he ignored them. It didn't end well. A couple of days of couch surfing with people, and he went back to his wife.
My family and eight family members inherited a house that one of us was living in. They stipulated he could remain for life, as long as he maintained the house and paid the taxes. After a few years, he stopped paying taxes and recently had the electricity turned off. My family pays the taxes but won't give him any money. He refuses to let anyone in the house, so we've no idea what the house looks like, but homes in the neighborhood can go for well over a million dollars.
Quote: billryanQuote: KevinAAHomeless people who are just down on their luck are at the homeless shelter using social services to improve their lot in life.
The homeless people who wander around all day doing nothing are not people who are just down on their luck. They are lazy bums who expect handouts so they can continue to feed their drug addictions. The ones who want to earn more money than just the handouts steal merchandise and sell it to people.
The bums will never go away as long as people continue to make excuses for them and enable them.
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The shelters in Tucson are at 100% capacity with a waitlist.
Are the people who can't get into the shelter all lazy bums? Is it your place to judge people you know nothing about?
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I just checked the Pima County website and found several:
11 available of 67
3 available of 3
4 available of 4
3 available of 5
2 available of 74
Quote: KevinAAQuote: billryanQuote: KevinAAHomeless people who are just down on their luck are at the homeless shelter using social services to improve their lot in life.
The homeless people who wander around all day doing nothing are not people who are just down on their luck. They are lazy bums who expect handouts so they can continue to feed their drug addictions. The ones who want to earn more money than just the handouts steal merchandise and sell it to people.
The bums will never go away as long as people continue to make excuses for them and enable them.
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The shelters in Tucson are at 100% capacity with a waitlist.
Are the people who can't get into the shelter all lazy bums? Is it your place to judge people you know nothing about?
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I just checked the Pima County website and found several:
11 available of 67
3 available of 3
4 available of 4
3 available of 5
2 available of 74
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The better question is which of the bums you see on the street have been banned from the shelters.
What does it take to get banned from a homeless shelter? Bend over and they will show you one way. Sex offenders, due to everything that comes with that, make up a large percentage of the homeless population. https://www.city-journal.org/article/homeless-population-sex-offenders-shelters
Others have been banned for assaulting or threatening staff and other residents, for stealing, and yet others have been banned for bringing drugs into shelters. Many of those people in there are trying to get clean and they cannot be around people who are high or using.
It is not that such people should not be helped, but that they possibly cannot be helped. They may need an exorcism before any other remedies will be effective.
Quote: KevinAAQuote: billryanQuote: KevinAAHomeless people who are just down on their luck are at the homeless shelter using social services to improve their lot in life.
The homeless people who wander around all day doing nothing are not people who are just down on their luck. They are lazy bums who expect handouts so they can continue to feed their drug addictions. The ones who want to earn more money than just the handouts steal merchandise and sell it to people.
The bums will never go away as long as people continue to make excuses for them and enable them.
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The shelters in Tucson are at 100% capacity with a waitlist.
Are the people who can't get into the shelter all lazy bums? Is it your place to judge people you know nothing about?
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I just checked the Pima County website and found several:
11 available of 67
3 available of 3
4 available of 4
3 available of 5
2 available of 74
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From my limited experience, shelters that have extra beds usually have restrictions, such as attending religious services, or set unrealistic expectations. A church opens a refuge in the remote Catalina foothills, far from the downtown homeless, and doesn't understand why so few homeless will stay there.
Private, mostly religious, organizations operate a number of shelters, but they usually have regulations and restrictions. Many don't allow pets, some are single-sex, so couples can't be together, others have age restrictions, and some require residents to participate in activities that some object to. Some close at 5 PM, meaning you must be inside for the night at 5PM.
The problem isn't just with shelters. Shelters are transitory, and permanent housing is even tougher. If a non-veteran male with no children is lucky, he will wait a year before getting housing. Literally every other type of person will jump them on the line.
I wasn't able to make a turn because of traffic so it was a minute of two before I was able to get back, and he was gone. I sat for a minute, when he pops up behind me. I drive up to him and he isn't nearly as old as I thought. I'm giving him some food and he comments on The Grateful Dead playing on my stereo. He tells me his brothers were big Dead fans but he never saw them as Jerry died while he was in seventh grade. Jerry Garcia died in 1994, which meant this man was in his early forties. When I first spotted him, I'd have guessed he was in his seventies.
Quote: KevinAAHomeless people who are just down on their luck are at the homeless shelter using social services to improve their lot in life.
The homeless people who wander around all day doing nothing are not people who are just down on their luck. They are lazy bums who expect handouts so they can continue to feed their drug addictions. The ones who want to earn more money than just the handouts steal merchandise and sell it to people.
The bums will never go away as long as people continue to make excuses for them and enable them.
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That has pretty much been my experience. For every one of them who is down on his luck there are 30 who are just hopeless drug addicts who like the lifestyle they're leading. They might moan and grown about it but try and get them to stop and they'll fight you tooth and nail. They look at the people who give them free stuff as suckers, as marks.
Quote: billryan
From my limited experience, shelters that have extra beds usually have restrictions, such as attending religious services, or set unrealistic expectations. A church opens a refuge in the remote Catalina foothills, far from the downtown homeless, and doesn't understand why so few homeless will stay there.
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I think you have, indirectly, identified the problem. What is their complaint about church services? That they might hear something about self-respect, and respect for others, and be traumatized? "That was worse than Desert Storm, man. Preacher up there telling me I'm supposed to feed the hungry and clothe the naked too. I've got PTSD now, where's my emotional support pipe?"
I would understand if they were Jewish or an adherent of some other religious tradition outside of the majority, but probably not even one of them is. Their problem is pride, ego, wanting what they want, when they want it and not willing to inconvenience themselves to the slightest degree in order to get it. That same person who isn't willing to hear the Gospel in exchange for a meal and place to sleep is willing to smash someone's car window, in order to get something which he uses to entertain his vices. And he doesn't want to stray too far from downtown where there is prey to victimize and he won't have to walk so far to make a drug purchase.
The Golden Rule is a ticket out of all kinds of despair, and that ticket is sold cheap to those with little to pay. But it seems that the less we ask of them, even less they are willing to deliver, and because of this those of us who are willing to turn them over to a commandant who puts the chain to their legs and the whip to their backs will eventually win the day.
I find it hard to believe that a normal couple without sex crime convictions who were drug-free would find themselves homeless for more than a few days. You would have to be a very high-risk couple to have exhausted all personal and charity resources.Quote: billryansome are single-sex, so couples can't be together, others have age restrictions, and some require residents to participate in activities that some object to.
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Quote: AxelWolfI find it hard to believe that a normal couple without sex crime convictions who were drug-free would find themselves homeless for more than a few days. You would have to be a very high-risk couple to have exhausted all personal and charity resources.Quote: billryansome are single-sex, so couples can't be together, others have age restrictions, and some require residents to participate in activities that some object to.
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I agree. I'll go as far as to say 99.9% of couples have little chance of being homeless long term.
Here is the problem: There are roughly 70 million married couples in America. Add ten million traditional unmarried households and a couple of million same-sex couples, and let's call it 85 million couples. That means 85,000 of them are at serious risk of becoming homeless.
Tucson has around 530,000 people., and around 2,000 are homeless. Roughly 99.6% of the population is not. The idea is to keep everyone from homelessness for more than a few days.
For many reasons, homelessness is a growing problem, and more people are ending up homeless and hungry. It's much easier to solve the problem now than in a few years when there are twice as many.
A couple has more resources available to the two of them together than does a single person. It's much more difficult for a single person to work two jobs than it is for a couple to each work one job.
When neither member of a couple can hold down a job, it's because they're both druggies.
These people who whine and complain about the rules of a shelter need to be relocated to a work camp where they will be given food, clothing and shelter in exchange for work.
A society will not survive with an ever-increasing population of bums who feed off everyone else like ticks.
