gordonm888
gordonm888
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
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MaxPen
November 27th, 2019 at 7:36:06 PM permalink
I tend to agree that the casino industry is going to be "disrupted" and decline dramatically.

- the gambling growth has been in "analytical gambling" - sports betting, fantasy sports wagering and poker. Entertainment growth in society has been in video games, movies and sports. Slot machines are not a growth industry.

- the younger people are educated by the internet, understand the house edge and view gambling as a self-destructive hobby

- the casinos' response has been to persistently raise the house edge on games and, in the name of game security, clamp down on players (no phone use at tables, hold cards with only one hand, don't talk with your spouse about what cards she's holding, strip away anonymity with facial recognition software) making the entire experience less enjoyable.

- Most obviously, Vegas' dominant position as THE gambling destination has been withering away for decades.

-Finally, the IRS positions on taxation of gambling winnings have started to hurt and will hurt more and more in the future.

People who worked for Blockbuster and Sears were in denial and didn't see it coming either
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
Minty
Minty
Joined: Jan 23, 2015
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November 28th, 2019 at 3:33:23 AM permalink
I've always thought the tightening of things by casinos and other industries to be an interesting response to negative financial results. Does it ever help? To me, it's a great way to drive people away not the other way around. Granted, many don't have a firm grasp of the house edge, but people realize at some point that things aren't what they used to be.

If there was a long-term, discreet solution to facial recognition I'd be quite interested and think a little investing in that would go a long way!
"Just because I'm not doing anything illegal, doesn't mean I won't have to defend myself someday." -Chip Reese
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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November 28th, 2019 at 11:16:01 AM permalink
This could be useful for state surveillance.

But, inside a casino, all that needs to happen, is a call for security to card a specific guest, and remove them if they refuse.

I would imagine, a failed scan would trigger even more attention on you than a positive scan.... Probably cause an automatic carding....
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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gordonm888
November 28th, 2019 at 1:16:23 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

This could be useful for state surveillance.

But, inside a casino, all that needs to happen, is a call for security to card a specific guest, and remove them if they refuse.

I would imagine, a failed scan would trigger even more attention on you than a positive scan.... Probably cause an automatic carding....



For a lot of AP's that would be preferable to being ID'd and papered across town.

I have limited experience with this type of flag software but within that limited experience the software is reactive, not proactive.

That is, its designed to identify person of interest and alert surveillance. It doesn't NOT identify the person and then flag them.

I suppose the software company can put some programming in that if any failure to identify period triggers a flag but that could cause lots of mis-flags imo.

Security and surveillance is generally lazy. They rely on the software, not the other way around. They dont want to be sitting there double checking the software is working but rather go about their own business and let the software they rely on do its work.

If the software isnt to be trusted and not designed to make life easy then whats the point
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
nighterfighter
nighterfighter
Joined: Aug 16, 2019
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gordonm888
November 28th, 2019 at 6:59:33 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler



I would imagine, a failed scan would trigger even more attention on you than a positive scan.... Probably cause an automatic carding....



How would it know it's a failed scan? Defeating facial recognition and defeating facial detection are two different games.

If the computer receives an image, scans the image and says "nope, no face here", that is an extremely normal behavior.

The next thing is defeating facial recognition, ie: Appearing as someone that isn't you. This can be done very subtly and most humans would not realize you are doing it.
TumblingBones
TumblingBones
Joined: Dec 25, 2016
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December 20th, 2019 at 3:47:46 PM permalink
Focusing on defeating one specific surveillance mode (e.g., facial recognition) isn't going to get you far. A state-of-the art MIL-SPEC system will use multiple modalities. I would suspect that with the right sensors (e.g., stingray? bluejack?) placed at the entrances to the casino, plus the addition of the right data sets, you are pretty much screwed. There might be some degree of uncertainty of just one method (e.g., you wear a wig to confuse the camera) but fusing multiple sensors is going to be much harder to defeat.
My goal of being well informed conflicts with my goal of remaining sane.
Gialmere
Gialmere
Joined: Nov 26, 2018
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December 21st, 2019 at 6:24:40 PM permalink
I see that China is now introducing Gait Recognition tech that can identify you without even seeing your face...



No doubt coming to a casino near you soon.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
darkoz
darkoz
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December 21st, 2019 at 6:59:46 PM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

I see that China is now introducing Gait Recognition tech that can identify you without even seeing your face...



No doubt coming to a casino near you soon.



Something a cane and a little bit of acting can probably overcome.

I have little faith in these because so many casinos have recognition software that clearly never works when I am around
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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December 21st, 2019 at 8:21:08 PM permalink
Quote: nighterfighter

How would it know it's a failed scan? Defeating facial recognition and defeating facial detection are two different games.

If the computer receives an image, scans the image and says "nope, no face here", that is an extremely normal behavior.

The next thing is defeating facial recognition, ie: Appearing as someone that isn't you. This can be done very subtly and most humans would not realize you are doing it.




Seems like a lot of work to just avoid being recognized.

There are few good reasons to not want to be recognized in a casino (being recognized as spending time in casinos is good for offers and comps). Generally it is a good thing to let casinos see where you spend time and money while in the resort.

The only logical (and not nefarious) reasons somebody would not want to be recognized is for AP or to avoid being recognized to overcome a self imposed banned - gambling addicts who ban themselves from casinos- (again setting aside criminal intent, terror attempts, etc...)

And, the days of AP may be ending in the coming decades at least in countries with modern casinos. I do think that soon it will be very rare for a casino to not identify somebody, and I think that somebody not being recognized will trigger some kind of manual security ID check.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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December 21st, 2019 at 9:13:30 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Seems like a lot of work to just avoid being recognized.

There are few good reasons to not want to be recognized in a casino (being recognized as spending time in casinos is good for offers and comps). Generally it is a good thing to let casinos see where you spend time and money while in the resort.

The only logical (and not nefarious) reasons somebody would not want to be recognized is for AP or to avoid being recognized to overcome a self imposed banned - gambling addicts who ban themselves from casinos- (again setting aside criminal intent, terror attempts, etc...)

And, the days of AP may be ending in the coming decades at least in countries with modern casinos. I do think that soon it will be very rare for a casino to not identify somebody, and I think that somebody not being recognized will trigger some kind of manual security ID check.



I currently AP at least 2 casinos I am banned from.

I trained trusted people to handle my business there.

Problem solved!!!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

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