Why do you think card counters are becoming rare?

I beleive that many card counters have quit. Because I rarely see another card counter. When I do, it is kind of a shock. I wonder what happened to most of the card counters?

Quote: jjjoooggg

I beleive that many card counters have quit. Because I rarely see another card counter. When I do, it is kind of a shock. I wonder what happened to most of the card counters?

They may have become less vocal? I mean if casinos can throw you out, then posting anywhere is not conducive to actually being a card counter because it’s kind of supposed to be a secret no?

Quote: heatmap

They may have become less vocal? I mean if casinos can throw you out, then posting anywhere is not conducive to actually being a card counter because it’s kind of supposed to be a secret no?

I've sat at many games. It is obvious that no one is counting.

Quote: jjjoooggg

I've sat at many games. It is obvious that no one is counting.

You have little faith in humans than but i am not saying you are lying when you do not know of a single person who you thought was counting, just that they wouldnt tell you WHILE at a game.

World Game Protection Conference 2008: Blackjack Challenge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwYb7RP5UDU

now look at what these guys can do quickly, and ask yourself what they can do at a table with minimal distractions, and casually counting?

and im sorry but your questions have me thinking, what does a card counter look like? i just realized you said, you dont "see" any card counters...

Quote: heatmap

World Game Protection Conference 2008: Blackjack Challenge

Oh man, we need to get this on ESPN 8—the Ocho!

Can anyone give data from the poker room?

We all know that Bingo Rooms play Bingo on the Odd Hours and make money for the casino on the Even Hours.

Now you've got all these poker players who can recite card sequences from dozens of games, they know what cards have been played and who played them, what 'outs' there are can quote percentages to four decimal places. They do this time after time, day after day.... so IF they took a lunch break and then went to a blackjack table wouldn't they have the skills? They might still have to disguise their bet variations perhaps but they could do it.

Would surveillance catch anything?

jjjoooggg, are you counting also? If you're counting, then any decent card-counter isn't going to want to be at the same table as you. Too much heat. With two of you at the table, raising and lowering your bets almost in unison, it's more than twice as likely that they'll catch you (or the other guy/gal).

When I counted, I rarely saw other counters, but if I noticed someone else counting at my table, I'd leave.

As a side note, the least heat was when I was in the high limit room and another guy was betting $10k/round ($5k each on two different hands). My spread of $100 to 600 was chicken scratch compared to him, all attention was on him. He wasn't counting, but it didn't matter.

I'm gonna assume the big winners were tortured and sent to Mexico in some kind of extraordinary rendition.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

jjjoooggg, are you counting also? If you're counting, then any decent card-counter isn't going to want to be at the same table as you. Too much heat. With two of you at the table, raising and lowering your bets almost in unison, it's more than twice as likely that they'll catch you (or the other guy/gal).

When I counted, I rarely saw other counters, but if I noticed someone else counting at my table, I'd leave.

As a side note, the least heat was when I was in the high limit room and another guy was betting $10k/round ($5k each on two different hands). My spread of $100 to 600 was chicken scratch compared to him, all attention was on him. He wasn't counting, but it didn't matter.

But i almost never walk into a table with a counter. I can detect watching people playing at other tables. I almost never detect any. In 1/2 year of play, I only recall 2.

My theory is that they have always been rare. What data do you have to show they are more rare in 2019 than they were in 2009 or 1999?

You wont spot the good ones.
About ten years ago, someone challenged another one of the posters on Ken Smiths BJ forum. He basically said there was no way the guy got away with the stuff he claimed. They agreed to meet up and let the doubter observe.

This is paraphrased from that guy.
I sat there waiting for B to show up but he didn't. I was at the table for awhile and this guy joined us. Bought in for $200 and quickly lost it. It was obvious the guy was clueless, he made bad decisions( which somehow worked out) and would raise his bets at the very worse times. Amazingly, the guy got on a hot streak and kept pressing bets and making all sorts of strange moves. The guy looked thrilled and cashed out up a few hundred dollars. Maybe the
most he ever won. He leaves and I go back to being pissed B flaked out on me. The waitress comes by and gives me a bottle of water with a note- All it says is -It was a pleasure playing with you. Now do you believe me, B?

Back in my prime, when I was regularly taking the Cortez for some $8 an hour and a free lunch every day, I was friendly with some of the pit crew. They were clueless.

Quote: billryan

You wont spot the good ones.
About ten years ago, someone challenged another one of the posters on Ken Smiths BJ forum. He basically said there was no way the guy got away with the stuff he claimed. They agreed to meet up and let the doubter observe.

This is paraphrased from that guy.
I sat there waiting for B to show up but he didn't. I was at the table for awhile and this guy joined us. Bought in for $200 and quickly lost it. It was obvious the guy was clueless, he made bad decisions( which somehow worked out) and would raise his bets at the very worse times. Amazingly, the guy got on a hot streak and kept pressing bets and making all sorts of strange moves. The guy looked thrilled and cashed out up a few hundred dollars. Maybe the
most he ever won. He leaves and I go back to being pissed B flaked out on me. The waitress comes by and gives me a bottle of water with a note- All it says is -It was a pleasure playing with you. Now do you believe me, B?

Back in my prime, when I was regularly taking the Cortez for some $8 an hour and a free lunch every day, I was friendly with some of the pit crew. They were clueless.

link please.

Perhaps the doubter was an idiot. I can usually spot an advantage player within a second or so. Obviously anybody can be fooled for a short period of time, especially if they're doing something you really have no knowledge of.

I am relatively young. But, I have assumed they have always been rare. The vast majority of players do not even bother to learn basic strategy, let alone counting cards.

I would assume the really good fulltime ones so to speak, keep a low profile, and probably spend a lot of time in non-mainstream casinos.

Quote: jjjoooggg

But i almost never walk into a table with a counter. I can detect watching people playing at other tables. I almost never detect any. In 1/2 year of play, I only recall 2.

jjjoooggg, you first opined that counters are *becoming* rare. Here you give the frequency of your run-ins. How frequent did your run-ins *used* to be?

Quote: AxelWolf

link please.

Perhaps the doubter was an idiot. I can usually spot an advantage player within a second or so. Obviously anybody can be fooled for a short period of time, especially if they're doing something you really have no knowledge of.

I have no idea how to find a thread from Kens forum. The players name was Bojack, if that helps. The doubter I don't recall.

Quote: Gandler

I am relatively young. But, I have assumed they have always been rare. The vast majority of players do not even bother to learn basic strategy, let alone counting cards.

I would assume the really good fulltime ones so to speak, keep a low profile, and probably spend a lot of time in non-mainstream casinos.

The black belt in blackjack allows one to glide through casinos like a ballet dancer on roller blades. They're long gone before you realize they were even there.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

jjjoooggg, you first opined that counters are *becoming* rare. Here you give the frequency of your run-ins. How frequent did your run-ins *used* to be?

I played around 1000 lifetime hours spread over the last 7 years. Many different casinos. I make sure to play games that are beatable. I don't play 6/5 or shuffle machines. I think I can detect a counter a table over or across. 1000 hours seems small when I think about it. But that's about 1/2 year of play. I am ahead. But the profit went to traveling expenses. Which has me believe that most don't like the low profit. I consider myself above average. A pit boss said, "you are a good counter." Maybe, she wanted to tell me that they already detected me.

Casinos are a different world to running restaurants. People in casinos are usually happy, well off and/or retired. It is like a different country within a country.

Someone above posted something about a "counter" who went in, lost a couple hundred, pretended to be clueless and then cleaned up a few hundred bucks (??) with seemingly random moves - i.e., tried to camouflage his advantage/superior BJ play. That's a waste of time, as much as playing small is. If you're going to get them get them efficiently, and big, because when they decide to ban you from BJ it's just as likely that they will do it when you are losing or playing small, as playing big. When I was banned for that period I was banned it was after consistently getting them for a LOT over a relatively short number of days. They didn't like the consistency, or the numbers, but at least I took them for a serious gang of loot before the man stepped in to have a chat.

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