bobbartop
bobbartop
Joined: Mar 15, 2016
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May 28th, 2019 at 9:17:06 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

Great article Mission. Spot on with everything that I know is correct from this side of the table.



The years that I have kept a log like I should, on TM, they were exact to the penny. And free play was figured in.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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May 28th, 2019 at 9:48:19 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

The years that I have kept a log like I should, on TM, they were exact to the penny. And free play was figured in.



It could be so. As I said I am familiar with a casino that calculates the freeplay.

And I certainly havent visited every casino
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
bobbartop
bobbartop
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May 28th, 2019 at 10:07:21 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

It could be so. As I said I am familiar with a casino that calculates the freeplay.

And I certainly havent visited every casino




No, I hear ya, Dark Oz. At the same time the casino I mentioned was right to the penny, there was another one out here, well, I don't know wtf they were doing. Their win/loss didn't match my records at all.

And check this out. One year I was lazy and didn't write down nuthin. I spent a lot of time at a certain casino, and at the end of the year my GUT told me I was probably down a little, or close to even. I opened up my win/loss envelope and freaked out. They got me down as $30k to the GOOD! What? Oh really, I told them, you don't think I would know if I won $30 thousand or not? I threw a fit. The subsequent discussions were not amicable. lol And I didn't change their minds. They were sticking to their story. One problem that came out of that incident was that I was no longer under the radar. No longer Mr.Incognito.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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May 29th, 2019 at 2:08:27 AM permalink
I'm gonna figure casino win/loss statements are fiction, like the IRS does.
RS
RS
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May 29th, 2019 at 2:16:39 AM permalink
As far as W/L statements and how "freeplay" is determined on there....in my experience, although limited, it seemed like freeplay was counted as just cash going into the machine. So if I put $1,000 cash and load $500 freeplay, I play for a while, and cash out $1,300, then the W/L statement would show a $200 loss. Even though, in reality, I'd be up $300.

Quote: DRich

A minor point in your article. CTR's are not required to be filed on cash paid out via a taxable jackpot ($1200 or more) because it is already being accounted for in the W2G.


You should write an article, blog post, or make a thread about all the intricacies about CTRs, W2Gs, SARs, MTLs(?), etc. Or screw that, just send it to me. :) If I'm not mistaken, isn't it true that cashing out a TITO at an ATM machine doesn't get counted towards the $10k+ threshold for a CTR or MTL? Or at least there's some weird funky stuff when it comes to those things, right?
darkoz
darkoz
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May 29th, 2019 at 2:58:45 AM permalink
Quote: RS

As far as W/L statements and how "freeplay" is determined on there....in my experience, although limited, it seemed like freeplay was counted as just cash going into the machine. So if I put $1,000 cash and load $500 freeplay, I play for a while, and cash out $1,300, then the W/L statement would show a $200 loss. Even though, in reality, I'd be up $300.



That is a distinct possibility.

In which case you most likely could win thousands and still show an overall "loss" on your statement
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
DRich
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May 29th, 2019 at 6:51:55 AM permalink
Quote: RS

If I'm not mistaken, isn't it true that cashing out a TITO at an ATM machine doesn't get counted towards the $10k+ threshold for a CTR or MTL? Or at least there's some weird funky stuff when it comes to those things, right?



That is incorrect. Cashing out from the kiosk still is a component of the $10k cashout fro CTR. Th problem is that it is very difficult to track and probably won't be accounted for. The slot accounting department may catch it the next day and issue the CTR, but I don't think it happens often. It is the slot accounting department that usually initiates the CTR's for $10k of bills going into the slot machines.

If someone wanted to avoid that, put the bills in before putting your slot card in.
Order from chaos
darkoz
darkoz
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May 29th, 2019 at 8:33:33 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

That is incorrect. Cashing out from the kiosk still is a component of the $10k cashout fro CTR. Th problem is that it is very difficult to track and probably won't be accounted for. The slot accounting department may catch it the next day and issue the CTR, but I don't think it happens often. It is the slot accounting department that usually initiates the CTR's for $10k of bills going into the slot machines.

If someone wanted to avoid that, put the bills in before putting your slot card in.



That cant possibly be correct. Maybe the law states it should be but there is no way its tracked.

Cashing out at the kiosk no id is asked for.

At the slots i can use other people's cards.

And if its circumvented so easily by simply putting the money in first (which probably is done moreso anyway. I dont know how many times I have seen a ploppie put their money in, sit down, take a spin or two, then suddenly rush into their pocket for their players card they forgot to insert not to mention how many times I have seen people insert their card, it doesn't register and they play for 10 minutes oblivious to it) that it simply cannot be any serious CTR examination being done by any casino when it comes to titos
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
DRich
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May 29th, 2019 at 9:33:55 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

That cant possibly be correct. Maybe the law states it should be but there is no way its tracked.

Cashing out at the kiosk no id is asked for.

At the slots i can use other people's cards.



It is correct, I have lots of experience with it (I teach classes on this stuff). It is very difficult to track kiosk cashouts but casinos are supposed to.

BTW, you don't have to provide ID for every CTR filed. If you are a known player and they have your information on file they don't need to see it again. Many player clubs scan your ID when you sign up and they can use that.
Order from chaos
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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May 29th, 2019 at 10:15:26 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

It is correct, I have lots of experience with it (I teach classes on this stuff). It is very difficult to track kiosk cashouts but casinos are supposed to.

BTW, you don't have to provide ID for every CTR filed. If you are a known player and they have your information on file they don't need to see it again. Many player clubs scan your ID when you sign up and they can use that.



So in your opinion the casinos are monitoring each and every tito redemption machine in their casino, logging by face who is doing each transaction, going back over past redemptions throughout the day to uncover any structuring and then reviewing photo ID scanned in their systems during signup (even assuming the player signed up for a player card in the first place.) In order to effectuate a match to file a CRT?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

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