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gordonm888
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gordonm888
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
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June 1st, 2018 at 11:12:24 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

But I still do not see the autonomous car thing having the disruption the media says it will. If the entire media is so in lockstep, they must be wrong.



I disagree. Autonomous cars will bring these changes:

1. Universal compliance with speed limits
2. Eventually, road use tolls -this is what municipalities will use to bail themselves out of their financial holes. They know exactly when a car is using any given road and some toll payment will be automatically transferred from the user's account to a City/Town/State account.
3. Eventually, no more traffic lights.
4. Insurance companies will be SOL - because auto insurance will become a thing of the past. This is why so many insurance companies are trying to diversify into "financial management."
5. Eventually there will be no private ownership of cars. Autonomous cars will be housed in big parking lots/facilities. You will call for a car with your phone, it will pick you up at your home and drive you to your destination.
- No more worrying about car payments, automotive maintenance, buying gas, replacing tires,
- Homes will eventually have no garages and no driveways. This will make homes cheaper.
Negatives
6. Mobility (by automotive vehicle) will become more expensive
7. Your movements (except walking) will no longer be private/
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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June 1st, 2018 at 11:13:45 AM permalink
I've been surprised there hasn't been an exodus of low to medium earners from expensive cities already. Especially among younger people.

You can buy and do so much online that the cultural advantages of NYC, LA, Chicago etc. vs somewhere like Vegas or Boise are tiny compared to what they once were.

Ideas spread way more rapidly. It's not going to take 25 years for things like restaurant trends to spread. You can also fulfill a lot of your social needs onlne.

You can easily aford to visit family or help them visit you with the savings.

But yes, i agree. If you can't afford a city, deal with it or move.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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June 1st, 2018 at 11:36:39 AM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

If said UBI recipient can't afford to pay their own bills to live in LA, UBI starts after the recipient uses the one way bus ticket to Yuma, AZ. UBI isn't designed to pay for the recipient to live in LA. UBI/Welfare should be calculated using a subsistence income level based on the lowest 20% cost regions of the country...time to move if you need the government to pay your long term living expenses.



My primary reason for not accepting an invitation to work at the NY TRACON in 2004 was the cost of living in NYC vs. ANYWHERE else I had worked. And they were offering me a base salary of $135k, probably real earnings around $170k. Which would not go far at all for a decent house and living expenses there, and yet is a FORTUNE outside the NE corridor and California.

(I'm sure I could have found SOMETHING, but to seriously degrade my standard of living in order to work at the hardest facility in the world, would have been purely ego. At that, it was close. Bragging rights matter.)

I just don't understand why there's such a disparity. I also don't understand how people do it. Unless they are already there, dealing with it on a daily basis from childhood.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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June 1st, 2018 at 12:13:21 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

I see what you and Babs are saying, but I don't agree that disproportionate benefit or funding of "available to all" types of government spending is a significant wealth transfer as the term is commonly used. In fact, I would guess that even fiscal conservatives don't object to government spending on these types of "most citizens gain some benefit" type of items.



Spending on this proposal is called "Universal" because it would be a benefit provided to everyone. Which is just one reason why so many fiscal conservatives prefer this type of spending over other government spending.

Quote: Paradigm

This type of government spending is very different from the direct wealth transfers that arise is when the government takes from the many and writes a check or transfers goods directly to an individual. Why would anyone supporting a capitalistic economic model be in favor of a long term program that provides for this type of direct wealth transfer?



One other major reason fiscal conservatives support this wealth transfer because it is far more efficient and less wasteful than our current system.
Paradigm
Paradigm
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
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June 1st, 2018 at 12:28:44 PM permalink
Big assumption that will never hold is that post a UBI implementation, we wouldn't re-start pieces of the current system and be spending more money overall. I don't need a UBI payment, but you're proposing giving everyone a UBI payment and somehow clearing out the waste fills the gap between the money spent under the current systems serving far fewer Americans than those paid under a UBI system with money for every American...I just don't buy the math.
Paradigm
Paradigm
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June 1st, 2018 at 12:32:48 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

My primary reason for not accepting an invitation to work at the NY TRACON in 2004 was the cost of living in NYC vs. ANYWHERE else I had worked. And they were offering me a base salary of $135k, probably real earnings around $170k. Which would not go far at all for a decent house and living expenses there, and yet is a FORTUNE outside the NE corridor and California.

(I'm sure I could have found SOMETHING, but to seriously degrade my standard of living in order to work at the hardest facility in the world, would have been purely ego. At that, it was close. Bragging rights matter.)

I just don't understand why there's such a disparity. I also don't understand how people do it. Unless they are already there, dealing with it on a daily basis from childhood.


And yet California has one of the highest populations of illegal immigration of low skilled workers in the country...they come here with very little resources and somehow can afford to live in one of the highest cost states in the nation...I wonder how that is possible?
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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June 1st, 2018 at 12:36:48 PM permalink
I like the idea of Americans sharing our great bounty. The devil is in the details but I'm sure Ivanka and company will see it goes smoothly. $25k a year sounds about right.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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June 1st, 2018 at 12:48:18 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

Big assumption that will never hold is that post a UBI implementation, we wouldn't re-start pieces of the current system and be spending more money overall.



It would be done on the state level.

Quote: Paradigm

I just don't buy the math



$800 x 12 months x 150 million = one-third of federal government spending this year ($600 would be only one-quarter)
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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June 1st, 2018 at 12:54:16 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I disagree. Autonomous cars will bring these changes:

1. Universal compliance with speed limits
2. Eventually, road use tolls -this is what municipalities will use to bail themselves out of their financial holes. They know exactly when a car is using any given road and some toll payment will be automatically transferred from the user's account to a City/Town/State account.
3. Eventually, no more traffic lights.
4. Insurance companies will be SOL - because auto insurance will become a thing of the past. This is why so many insurance companies are trying to diversify into "financial management."
5. Eventually there will be no private ownership of cars. Autonomous cars will be housed in big parking lots/facilities. You will call for a car with your phone, it will pick you up at your home and drive you to your destination.
- No more worrying about car payments, automotive maintenance, buying gas, replacing tires,
- Homes will eventually have no garages and no driveways. This will make homes cheaper.
Negatives
6. Mobility (by automotive vehicle) will become more expensive
7. Your movements (except walking) will no longer be private/




There may be someone out there with a vast vision, but right now I see a less complicated view. All major car companies at the very least don't want find out a competitor got way ahead of them. It's likely, if you're not in the game now, it will be difficult to catch up with the company which succeeds unless you have your own system. This is true, even if the public shows only low interest in ultimately buying into it. But that comes later.

The cynical me says, companies develop complexity in part to lock customers into a product. Not only can I not easily make a self-driving car, I probably never will be able to figure out how to fix one.
The Hall of Unverified Claims is a vast place with many shelves.
TigerWu
TigerWu
Joined: May 23, 2016
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June 1st, 2018 at 1:25:58 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

This would never work because as soon as everyone in the country received an extra $1500 per month, the base cost of living everywhere would just go up another $1500 per month.



Why?

What's the difference between a $1500 a month UBI and everyone having a job paying at least $1500 a month?

If everyone in the U.S. suddenly had a job that paid (at least) minimum wage, would prices of everything go up accordingly? Why or why not, and how would that be different from a UBI?

I'm not arguing, just asking.

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