Shady things that casinos frown on but aren't technically illegal?

Family/spouses/friends/SO giving each other free play and then splitting the cash especially if the person on the card cannot physically come in to play it like if they will be working in the next County the day of the free play and the loved one live in that County. For example, my sister lives in Broward County and I live in Miami Dade. Let's say Isle Pompano Casino(In Broward County )sends me an offer of $60 for May 15th from 11:00 am through 5:00 only. I will be working May 15th in Miami those hours so I would not be able to use it. Let's say my sister comes over to visit me on May 14th. She is off on May 15th and I give her a copy of my Isle Pompano Casino card and tell her about my dilemma tomorrow and tell her to use my free play and whatever cash she wins, we split it. She agrees, does the free play, wins $100 in cash on lucky machines, and we both get $50. Casinos frown on letting other people use your free play with your permission even though it's not technically illegal.

This example is more muddy but not technically illegal but it does make casino staff frown big time even more than letting someone use your free play. For example, Tommy owes $10,000 in child support payments. He goes to the casino and gets $16,000 on a Grand Progressive. He knows with that his child support payments will be garnished from his jackpot winnings and with the jackpot winnings being taxed at 33 percent, he will get $10,720 and after the garnished child support payments, he will be left with only $720 for himself. He asks his childless buddy, Sam to file under Sam's name as a huge favor and they will split the money. Sam files under his own name, and they each get $5,360, much better than only $720 for Tommy. Casinos do not like the switcheroo plot though it's not technically illegal. In real life, two women did the "Woman with no debt signs jackpot for debt filled friend who was the real jackpot winner," scam and both women were permanently banned from casino after they paid the debtless woman.

Quote: Nathan

He knows with that his child support payments will be garnished from his jackpot winnings and with the jackpot winnings being taxed at 33 percent, he will get $10,720 and after the garnished child support payments, he will be left with only $720 for himself. He asks his childless buddy, Sam to file under Sam's name as a huge favor and they will split the money.

I'm pretty sure that's still super illegal...

I'm no expert but I think it would be considered "structuring." You'd be making financial transactions in order to avoid filing certain reports (in this case, child support payments).

A person who helps another to avoid child support is as big a scumbag as the deadbeat parent. I'm fairly sure evading a court ordered payment would be illegal.

Quote: billryan

A person who helps another to avoid child support is as big a scumbag as the deadbeat parent. I'm fairly sure evading a court ordered payment would be illegal.

It happens a lot especially in nys lottery run racinos where $600 triggers jackpots

That said I have not heard of criminal charges ever being brought

So either its not illegal or its deemed too difficult to prosecute

Or no one in years of doing it has ever been caught? But that would probably fall under difficult to prove :)

$700 and his child support in arrears caught up. He would be a moron to split it.

What I'm confused about is the line where you must swear you owe no money from the jackpot to anyone. The casino wants to know who hit the button, but if you hit the button, but have a deal to get nothing( or claimed as so), the person who will get the money should be able to claim the jackpot. The winning player shouldn't have to perjure himself.

$700 and his child support in arrears caught up. He would be a moron to split it.

What I'm confused about is the line where you must swear you owe no money from the jackpot to anyone. The casino wants to know who hit the button, but if you hit the button, but have a deal to get nothing( or claimed as so), the person who will get the money should be able to claim the jackpot. The winning player shouldn't have to perjure himself.

I had a bar across from a NYC OTB back in the late 90s. Lots of old timers used to hang out , hoping to get a payday cashing someone's winning tickets. Never really understood it.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

$700 and his child support in arrears caught up. He would be a moron to split it.

What I'm confused about is the line where you must swear you owe no money from the jackpot to anyone. The casino wants to know who hit the button, but if you hit the button, but have a deal to get nothing( or claimed as so), the person who will get the money should be able to claim the jackpot. The winning player shouldn't have to perjure himself.

I remember reading on this very website that a mother and daughter were playing next to each other and the daughter won a huge jackpot. Mom and daughter quickly switched seats, and Mom signed for the jackpot and was awarded the money. They begged the poster not to tell the casino about the switch and the poster decided to keep the secret as the switch was really none of his business. IIRC, the daughter was hiding her gambling adventures from her husband and there was a possibility that the W2 form would have been sent to the daughter and her husband's house(Some casinos send W2 forms to houses. I remember a woman saying she won $20,000 at a casino and the W2 form was mailed to her house and her husband happened to be the one who picked up the mail that particular day and said,"Honey, anything, you want to tell me about?" LMAO,:D) So Mom took the risk of having the W2 form show up at her own house instead.

Your second example is called "Jackpot Claiming" and is completely illegal. Casinos are required to file Suspicious Activity Reports when this occurs.

Quote: billryan

I had a bar across from a NYC OTB back in the late 90s. Lots of old timers used to hang out , hoping to get a payday cashing someone's winning tickets. Never really understood it.

There are some people who accidentally discard winning tickets. In fact, there was a guy in the news who realized the horrible truth when he threw out a winning ticket. He said something like, "The other day, they said a ticket with the numbers 1, 5, 20, 35, 42, 50, 53, was expiring soon. I thought,"What idiot doesn't cash in their winning ticket? I realized in horror I remember having a ticket with those same exact numbers roughly 6 months ago and I actually saw it again a couple of days ago but absentmindedly threw it out." My wife and I frantically rushed to the garbage and dug for it and we miraculously found it. Thank God the ticket was still readable. I cashed it in just before the deadline expired. I was lucky it wasn't garbage pickup day and that the ticket was still readable."

I, Nathan have found a winning ticket worth like $2 on the street. The person who accidentally discarded the winning ticket didn't understand the game and assumed they lost. The numbers didn't match any winning number, but there was a Snowman symbol. The Snowman symbol awarded the amount, which only happened to be a mere $2, but the Snowman could have easily have matched a $100. I am notAlso, I was told a woman was playing an EZ match game where you get 5 Fantasy numbers and hope your numbers match the 5 Fantasy numbers on the bottom, for example, your numbers could be 2, 4,6,8,10 and the bottom will look like 2-$50, 3-$500, 18-$25, 32, $250, 36-$2. In this example, the number 2 netted you $50. It cost $2 to play, $1 for the Fantasy 5 night drawing and $1 for the chance to match numbers on the bottom. What has with the woman is that none of her numbers matched and she assumed she lost and let the clerk keep the tickets, having no idea that she still had a chance to win with the night drawing. She thought the $2 ticket price was JUST to match the numbers on the bottom. There is a new game that costs about $2 to just match numbers called Fast Cash. The crooked clerk didn't even tell her that she still had the chance to win with the night drawing and let her walk out the door without her tickets. :( Poor woman. :(

Quote: FCBLComish

Your second example is called "Jackpot Claiming" and is completely illegal. Casinos are required to file Suspicious Activity Reports when this occurs.

Please link to law that states thus

Sars generated do not make it illegal

As long as taxes are paid on jackpot it shouldnt matter who wins. The claimant pays the taxes regardless then it shouldnt matter unless you can show me specific case law

I could find none googling

I thought the letting someone without debts sign the jackpot and the real winner that has the debts split the money after taxes was not illegal just really frowned upon because if it were illegal wouldn't the casino have prosecuted the women rather than just ban them for life? :/ Also in a Lottery sting, an undercover employee for Dateline let a Lottery Clerk check her winning ticket to test his honesty. He admitted she had a $1,000 winner. She pretended to have debts that were roughly $900 and she knew would be garnished from her winnings leaving her only about $100. He claimed that he would give her $650 in cash in exchange for her winning ticket. She agreed and they made the exchange. He would actually make about a $350 profit before taxes if he went to the Lottery Office, actually he would only make a $20 profit after 33 tax percent on $1,000. Posters were like,"What idiot agrees to sell their $1,000 ticket for $650? They would lose $350!" The answer was,"Remember she claimed her debts were roughly $900 so she would have ended up with only $100 if she cashed it in at a Lottery Headquarter. This way, by selling her ticket for $650, she gets $650 for herself than just like $100 if she owes like $900 in debts. Actually, after taxes she would get NOTHING. She would still owe $230 after the $670 after taxes is garnished her debts if she went to the Lottery Office." Later on, Dateline said what he did was called discounting where you buy a winning ticket in cash from actual winners who have debts to help them dodge their debts. They said it was not illegal in the state the undercover employee "sold" it but it was against Lottery Regulations so although the clerk was not prosecuted or sentenced, he lost his Lottery License.

Not arguing, simply asking. Doesn't the law state the win goes to whomever pushed the button? I'd think the taxes follow the same procedure. I can't give a 1099 to my spouse and have her claim the income for tax purposes, can I? I don't see how this is different.
If the person was under age, I couldn't legally claim his win. Nor if they were on an excluded list.

Quote: billryan

Not arguing, simply asking. Doesn't the law state the win goes to whomever pushed the button? I'd think the taxes follow the same procedure. I can't give a 1099 to my spouse and have her claim the income for tax purposes, can I? I don't see how this is different.
If the person was under age, I couldn't legally claim his win. Nor if they were on an excluded list.

Good questions

There may be a grey area here

I can see the law differentiating between an illegal wager (button pushed by minor) and a legal wager where someone wants to allow another to claim (for either AP reasons or some previous claimant liability)

EDIT: One reason I do not believe its illegal is in NYS I have seen cashiers ask if the person owes any money prior to scanning tickets to NYS and advising them the money will be confiscated if so giving them the choice to have someone else claim the ticket

While cashiers may be ignorant of the law I dont think this openly asked question would be allowed to go on for long if it was truly illegal

Quote: Nathan

There is a Jew game that costs about $2

This had me coming up with some jokes to throw at that, decided not to ... but actually I think you have to know better than to say something like that, Nathan

Quote: odiousgambit

This had me coming up with some jokes to throw at that, decided not to ... but actually I think you have to know better than to say something like that, Nathan

Obviously not true since jews wouldnt spend that much on a game

Sorry had to joke

But seriously? A Jew game? What pray tell is that?

EDIT: oh wait spinning the dreidle? Dreidle Craps?

Quote: darkoz

But seriously? A Jew game? What pray tell is that?

My casino just added a new Seinfeld slot machine on Monday..Maybe thats what he meant

Quote: odiousgambit

This had me coming up with some jokes to throw at that, decided not to ... but actually I think you have to know better than to say something like that, Nathan

Oh crap. Damn auto correct is going to get me in big trouble someday. That was supposed to say "New game," not Jew game. Thank God for the edit button.

Quote: Nathan

Oh crap. Damn auto correct is going to get me in big trouble someday. That was supposed to say "New game," not Jew game. Thank God for the edit button.

Lol someone else on here had the same autocorrect problem a few weeks ago. Came up in the trump thread

Makes sense now

Damn Dreidle Craps was sounding kinda exciting

Edit: I suspect in both cases it wasnt autocorrect but your fingers pushing the J above the N. They are right next to each other vertically

Quote: darkoz

Lol someone else on here had the same autocorrect problem a few weeks ago. Came up in the trump thread

Makes sense now

Damn Dreidle Craps was sounding kinda exciting

Edit: I suspect in both cases it wasnt autocorrect but your fingers pushing the J above the N. They are right next to each other vertically

I remember that. The poster was always in good standing and an Admin said something like,"I was seriously considering giving you your first ever suspension when I saw that shocking word. Something told me to hold off because you usually don't act like that. The auto correct making a mistake makes perfect sense and I'm glad I listened to my gut feeling and didn't suspend you right off the bat." You make perfect sense. I mut have hit the J by accident instead of the N.

Quote: Nathan

I mut have hit the J by accident instead of the N.

Capitalized it too. Since there hasn't been anything else like this coming from you, well, OK, weird

Quote: darkoz

Damn Dreidle Craps was sounding kinda exciting

Casino War exsists, so cant say its impossible.

Matzoh Ball Roulette

Quote: odiousgambit

Capitalized it too. Since there hasn't been anything else like this coming from you, well, OK, weird

On my device it's ridiculously easy to hit the buttons to make the letters capitalize. ;) Case in point. The word easy turned into East and luckily I caught it before pressing post. ;)

Quote: darkoz

Lol someone else on here had the same autocorrect problem a few weeks ago.

# I’m a trendsetter

Quote: RS

# I’m a trendsetter

LMAO! :D

Quote: darkoz

Please link to law that states thus

Sars generated do not make it illegal

As long as taxes are paid on jackpot it shouldnt matter who wins. The claimant pays the taxes regardless then it shouldnt matter unless you can show me specific case law

I could find none googling

Here is one from Colorado. (#13)

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/enforcement/playing-casino-gaming

There is a lot of stuff from FINCEN (Financial Crimes Enforcement Network) but nothing specific I can find.

So what about the line you have to swear to that the money won isn't owed to anyone else. If person A were playing for player B, or had agreement in place player A would owe a portion to player B, they cannot sign the W2G form. Sounds like only player B can sign it, negating any other law. If it were just oral agreement, so be it. There is the form poker players use for shared winnings, but I'm not sure it must be used. This is all common sense, but might be wrong.

Quote: FCBLComish

Here is one from Colorado. (#13)

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/enforcement/playing-casino-gaming

There is a lot of stuff from FINCEN (Financial Crimes Enforcement Network) but nothing specific I can find.

So its probably state to state

Be aware of your jurisdictions rules

Rules and bones are made to be broken.

Quote: billryan

Rules and bones are made to be broken.

And in the early days of Vegas if you broke the first, someone with a baseball bat would break the second.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

So what about the line you have to swear to that the money won isn't owed to anyone else. If person A were playing for player B, or had agreement in place player A would owe a portion to player B, they cannot sign the W2G form. Sounds like only player B can sign it, negating any other law. If it were just oral agreement, so be it. There is the form poker players use for shared winnings, but I'm not sure it must be used. This is all common sense, but might be wrong.

I have used this form (below, IRS 5754) the last couple of years for shared winnings. I think it's a much better way to protect yourself. You list percentages or dollar value of how a hand pay is to be broken up. I used it with my filing, after the fact, on 2015 and 2016 returns, and have had no problems with the IRS.

https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/form-5754-statement-by-persons-receiving-gambling-winnings

Quote: beachbumbabs

I have used this form (below, IRS 5754) the last couple of years for shared winnings. I think it's a much better way to protect yourself. You list percentages or dollar value of how a hand pay is to be broken up. I used it with my filing, after the fact, on 2015 and 2016 returns, and have had no problems with the IRS.

https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/form-5754-statement-by-persons-receiving-gambling-winnings

Don't you need their SSN if post payout?

Yes. But taxes will have to be paid on the money anyway, so that should be part of the deal between you. Otherwise you get hung out to dry. Doesn't mean the casino has to have it.