Trump's Second and Third year in office

Quote: ams288

When AZ says that Donald specified that "MS-13 gang members" were animals, he's not exactly being honest with what was said. (*gasp*)



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/us/politics/trump-undocumented-immigrants-animals.html

Quote: ams288

When AZ says that Donald specified that "MS-13 gang members" were animals, he's not exactly being honest with what was said. (*gasp*)

Quote: Trump meeting

Mims: "Thank you. There could be an MS-13 gang member I know about — if they don't reach a certain threshold, I cannot tell ICE about it."

Trump: "We have people coming into the country, or trying to come in — and we're stopping a lot of them — but we're taking people out of the country. You wouldn't believe how bad these people are. These aren't people. These are animals. And we're taking them out of the country at a level and at a rate that's never happened before. And because of the weak laws, they come in fast, we get them, we release them, we get them again, we bring them out. It's crazy.

Quote: TigerWu

Who specifically was defending illegal alien gang members?

Quote: beachbumbabs

Your Speaker is even walking away, and he was in line to be President

Quote: SanchoPanza

Nancy Pelosi for starters. Need more?

Quote: beachbumbabs

Thanks for finding that quote. I was going to make the same point about the lie/exaggeration, but was too battle fatigued to look it up.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Your Speaker is even walking away, and he was in line to be President

Quote: SanchoPanza

When and where has Ryan ever said he wanted to President?

Quote: SanchoPanza

Nancy Pelosi for starters. Need more?

Quote: TigerWu

Yes, because Pelosi never defended MS-13.

Quote: TigerWu

Yes, because Pelosi never defended MS-13.

Quote: SanchoPanza

When and where has Ryan ever said he wanted to President?

Quote: AZDuffman

Sure she did. When she attacked Trump for calling them “animals.”

Quote: terapined

Fake news from AZ
Can you read? She referred to undocumented immigrants. Never mentioned MS 13
ROTFL
Pelosi quote
"When the president of the United States says about undocumented immigrants, 'these are not people, these are animals,' you have to wonder, does he not believe in the spark of divinity? In the dignity and worth of every person? 'These are not people, these are animals,' from the president of the United States."
"Every day you think you've seen it all, along comes another manifestation of why their policies are so inhumane," she said.
"Calling people animals is not a good thing,"

Quote: AZDuffman

Trump called MS-13 @animals.”

Quote: AZDuffman

Trump called MS-13 @animals.”
Pelosi said that was “not a good thing.”

Seems a pretty clear connection.

Quote: terapined

"Calling people animals is not a good thing"

Quote: ams288

When one accepts the Republican nomination to run for Vice President as Paul Ryan did in 2012, they’re not opposed to becoming President someday...

lol

Quote: SOOPOO

Agree. I would say there is somewhere between a 99 and 100% chance if Paul Ryan felt he had a path to the presidency he'd be on that path. As speaker, he was in a lose/lose situation. To support Trump is against most of what he stands for, but to go against the duly elected President from your party is spitting in the face of the electorate. He couldn't look good.....

Quote: ams288

The WH press briefing was delayed nearly 4 hours today because Sarah Huckabee didn’t want to answer questions about their awful child separation policy so they had to ship in Sec. Nielsen. When asked, Nielsen wasn’t able to answer where the government is holding all the little girls.

Sounds like you’ve got a winning issue on your hands, righties!!

Quote: beachbumbabs

Even Pence has made some aborted moves to hedge his position, but his reins keep getting jerked by the Trumpers, so I don't think he'll be able to pull it off. Souls stay sold.

Quote: beachbumbabs

If I were analyzing Ryan's moves I would say he's listening to Scott Walker, who is also losing support in Wisconsin. They both believe Trump is a severe deviation by the party, that he will not hold in the long run, and his base will fall apart once he himself is gone.

So, the long game is, let Trump self-destruct, burn out, whatever he's going to do, but without being part of the active conversation, withdraw from the field of battle. Then pick up the pieces, in 2024, possibly even in 2020, and make a run for the Conservative non-Trumpers willing to form a coalition.

Quote: terapined

Fake news from SanchoPanza

Donald Trump's false claim that Nancy Pelosi 'came out in favor of MS-13

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/may/24/donald-trump/donald-trumps-false-claim-nancy-pelosi-came-out-fa/

Quote: ams288

When one accepts the Republican nomination to run for Vice President as Paul Ryan did in 2012, they’re not opposed to becoming President someday...lol

Quote: terapined

I think Sancho like other republicans now believe the Trump lies
Hey Sancho
There is the truth
and
There are Trump lies.
If Trump lies about what Pelosi says. Its still a lie
ROTFL

Quote: SanchoPanza

There is absolutely no contemporary sign of Ryan's being in line to be President.

Quote: ams288

???

He’s third in line. Right now. Is that not “contemporary” enough for you?

lol

Quote: SanchoPanza

Oh, ready for the assassination of Pence now?

Quote: beachbumbabs

If I were analyzing Ryan's moves I would say he's listening to Scott Walker, who is also losing support in Wisconsin. They both believe Trump is a severe deviation by the party, that he will not hold in the long run, and his base will fall apart once he himself is gone.

Quote: darkoz

Asking for asylum at the border is not a crime in this country. Yet they are separating those people from their children too

So if you are for separating criminals from their children why are you also for separating lawful abiding immigrants

Your view seems to be similar to a casino lumping APs in with cheaters

A strange view given this forum

Quote: AZDuffman

Here is a reminder how a liberal icon treated asylum seekers.

Of course, the folks in question today were just regular illegal aliens until some liberals decided they were "asylum seekers."

Still, liberal outrage seems selective.

Quote: ams288

Quote: AZDuffman

Here is a reminder how a liberal icon treated asylum seekers.

Of course, the folks in question today were just regular illegal aliens until some liberals decided they were "asylum seekers."

Still, liberal outrage seems selective.

Show Spoiler

I stumbled across this meme earlier today when I was looking for the “change the subject” meme for Boz, and I KNEW I’d be able to use it for AZ.... cause bringing up Clinton is the only move in his playbook!

Quote: gamerfreak

How do you define “liberal thinking”?

Quote: ams288

Whenever someone asks me why I'm a Democrat, I have a simple response:

I'm not rich.
I'm not religious.
I'm not a racist.
Therefore, I'm not a Republican.

Quote: terapined

I was a pretty hard core republican immigrant.
Voted for Reagan
Voted for Dole over Bill Clinton
I was very anti-communist anti-Russia and for low govt spending
An atheist fiscal republican that supports the justice dept, gay marriage, abortion and freedom of the press

Then
Spending exploded under Bush and the Republican went all in on religion being against gay marriage, abortion and hatred for immigrants. Trump loves Russia and hates our justice dept and hates freedom of the press

Really a no brainer for me
Still a registered republican but vote Dem

Quote: TigerWu

What exactly do you think a "liberal" is?

Are you sure you're not thinking of the far-left or communists or something?

Quote: TigerWu

Wait, what?

Who specifically was defending illegal alien gang members?

Quote: ams288

When AZ says that Donald specified that "MS-13 gang members" were animals, he's not exactly being honest with what was said. (*gasp*)



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/us/politics/trump-undocumented-immigrants-animals.html

Quote: beachbumbabs

Thanks for finding that quote. I was going to make the same point about the lie/exaggeration, but was too battle fatigued to look it up.

Quote: terapined

Fake news from AZ
Can you read? She referred to undocumented immigrants. Never mentioned MS 13
ROTFL
Pelosi quote
"When the president of the United States says about undocumented immigrants, 'these are not people, these are animals,' you have to wonder, does he not believe in the spark of divinity? In the dignity and worth of every person? 'These are not people, these are animals,' from the president of the United States.
Every day you think you've seen it all, along comes another manifestation of why their policies are so inhumane,
Calling people animals is not a good thing,"

Quote: RS

I should have been more specific and said when it deals with the social issues and the overall sense of we have to be MORE than fair regarding some 'x' situation. I mean, we're talking about kicking out people who are here ILLEGALLY. No, it's not unfair to go after MS-13, it's not unfair to kick out illegal immigrants, we (or the govt) should have no duty to support social security or other benefits to people.

As simply as I can put it, I'd say liberal thinking is when you think more with your heart and feelings than with your head and logic.

There are many people out there (I don't think anyone here is this far gone), that don't realize actions have consequences. You can't just print more money and give it to the poor so now everything's just better. You can't just take a larger chunk from the rich and give it to the poor and expect only positive changes. You can't hike minimum wage a significant amount and expect there to only be positive changes.

You can't just allow open immigration and expect everything to be the same or better. If people are coming here from Mexico to work low paying jobs, do you think there's going to be a bigger burden or a lower burden on social programs? The rich supplement the poor. Bringing in more poor people means either the rich have to pay more taxes or the poor get a smaller piece of the free pie.

If it were up to me (many would be thankful it's not), I'd say anyone receiving government hand-outs is not eligible to vote. If you get off the govt. assistance, then you can vote again. The reason would be so people don't just automatically vote for the nonsensical route where there are more taxes and therefore more money for the people getting govt assistance. If we keep going on the route we're going....we're going to end up like Canada or much of Europe.


Good for you, I guess. I'm not sure why you'd respond with a non-sequitur, but go ahead.

Quote: terapined

I was a pretty hard core republican immigrant.
Voted for Reagan
Voted for Dole over Bill Clinton
I was very anti-communist anti-Russia and for low govt spending
An atheist fiscal republican that supports the justice dept, gay marriage, abortion and freedom of the press

Then
Spending exploded under Bush and the Republican went all in on religion being against gay marriage, abortion and hatred for immigrants. Trump loves Russia and hates our justice dept and hates freedom of the press

Really a no brainer for me
Still a registered republican but vote Dem

I'm sure it is.



I'd say a combination of both. But if I say communists or socialists, the liberals aren't going to think that applies to them. Hint: It does.






I'll amend my thoughts above to say these 4 quotes are the definition of liberal thinking. It doesn't get much more ridiculous than that, by taking comments made completely out of context and mushing it around to suit their narrative which isn't even based on anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tmT7-dhOWs&t=125s

The context to the above quotes starts around 2:05.

So yeah, seeing those quotes above is sickening to me, because these people are taking things completely out of context. It's intellectually dishonest and disgusting.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: RS

I should have been more specific and said when it deals with the social issues and the overall sense of we have to be MORE than fair regarding some 'x' situation. I mean, we're talking about kicking out people who are here ILLEGALLY. No, it's not unfair to go after MS-13, it's not unfair to kick out illegal immigrants, we (or the govt) should have no duty to support social security or other benefits to people.

As simply as I can put it, I'd say liberal thinking is when you think more with your heart and feelings than with your head and logic.

There are many people out there (I don't think anyone here is this far gone), that don't realize actions have consequences. You can't just print more money and give it to the poor so now everything's just better. You can't just take a larger chunk from the rich and give it to the poor and expect only positive changes. You can't hike minimum wage a significant amount and expect there to only be positive changes.

You can't just allow open immigration and expect everything to be the same or better. If people are coming here from Mexico to work low paying jobs, do you think there's going to be a bigger burden or a lower burden on social programs? The rich supplement the poor. Bringing in more poor people means either the rich have to pay more taxes or the poor get a smaller piece of the free pie.

If it were up to me (many would be thankful it's not), I'd say anyone receiving government hand-outs is not eligible to vote. If you get off the govt. assistance, then you can vote again. The reason would be so people don't just automatically vote for the nonsensical route where there are more taxes and therefore more money for the people getting govt assistance. If we keep going on the route we're going....we're going to end up like Canada or much of Europe.


Good for you, I guess. I'm not sure why you'd respond with a non-sequitur, but go ahead.

Quote: terapined

I was a pretty hard core republican immigrant.
Voted for Reagan
Voted for Dole over Bill Clinton
I was very anti-communist anti-Russia and for low govt spending
An atheist fiscal republican that supports the justice dept, gay marriage, abortion and freedom of the press

Then
Spending exploded under Bush and the Republican went all in on religion being against gay marriage, abortion and hatred for immigrants. Trump loves Russia and hates our justice dept and hates freedom of the press

Really a no brainer for me
Still a registered republican but vote Dem

I'm sure it is.



I'd say a combination of both. But if I say communists or socialists, the liberals aren't going to think that applies to them. Hint: It does.






I'll amend my thoughts above to say these 4 quotes are the definition of liberal thinking. It doesn't get much more ridiculous than that, by taking comments made completely out of context and mushing it around to suit their narrative which isn't even based on anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tmT7-dhOWs&t=125s

The context to the above quotes starts around 2:05.

So yeah, seeing those quotes above is sickening to me, because these people are taking things completely out of context. It's intellectually dishonest and disgusting.

What a great idea. People getting govt handouts cant vote

There goes most senior citizens

Half the country during the last major recession

Republicans would have a shoe in. In fact we woukd probably cease being a democracy. Just become a one party country ruled by the rich

Quote: MaxPen

Considering we are supposed to be a Republic.....kudos to not being a demoncracy.
You used to have to own property in order to vote. Just ask ZenKing. Makes sense, people start wrecking good things when they realize they have the power to vote themselves benefits from the nation's treasury. In fact that has resulted in the fall of many "democracies" throughout history, of which most succumbed to dictatorships.

Quote:

Light-fingered passengers flying first and business class are behind a mile-high pilfering epidemic, filching the high-value luxury treats available in their opulent cabins.

Some airlines are now reassessing their offerings available to their top-notch customers that include luxury blankets, pyjamas and designer perfume bottles that are exiting their planes, along with the passengers, on a grand scale.

Meanwhile, the well-heeled passengers are not only swiping all the cool, free stuff they can lay their hands on but are also known to try to profit from their misdemeanors by selling them online. Sites such as eBay feature BA blankets and Bulgari amenity bags made for Emirates. Etihad’s business class velvet plush throw sells for more than $130.

Quote: rxwine

His casino business failed like it's 1999. Started out pretty grand.

Quote: aceofspades

You do realize that, when they went under, they were merely leasing his name as a minority shareholder - he was no longer the majority owner of the casinos and the day-to-day running was not done by him

Quote: beachbumbabs

There is a long precedent, if that's what's happening. Starting Obama's first day in office with a pledge to deny him everything, no matter how necessary, no matter if it was a Republican idea he was supporting, was borderline treasonous, certainly party before country. Trump as a backlash candidate would, not surprisingly, get the mirrored response from those supporters.

But I think it's deeper than that. A LOT of people, regardless of party, see Trump as a real threat to everything America stands for. The list is enormous and well represented in this thread. But every time we think they can't be worse, they find a new low.

And so we want to see this administration fail. The long-term damage to the US if they succeed in ripping the guts out of us may be irreparable. The party is no longer anything resembling the one I joined - nobody left to stand up to him, even with the power to do so.

#resist

Quote: lilredrooster

Trump health care plan. but he can't help you if you have a pre-existing condition. sorry. maybe try taking vitamins.

Quote: ams288

Whenever someone asks me why I'm a Democrat, I have a simple response:

I'm not rich.
I'm not religious.
I'm not a racist.
Therefore, I'm not a Republican.

Quote: ams288

Yes.

Not all Republicans are racist.

But in 2018, all racists are Republican.

Quote: ams288

Here we go. We got a rightie defended locking children up in cages.

Good luck in the midterms!

Quote: Boz

Like everything else the media pushes, they will move on from this story onto the next one in a few days. Like Russia, the Extra Tape, Stormy, Rudy and everything else, there will something new tomorrow.

This will not be a midterm issue and you know it. The house will be close in November but not because of these issues, it will be decided by turnout. And as much as liberals want to say it, Trump isn’t on the ballot. No different than Obana not being on the ballot in 10 & 14. It’s hard to get a segment of the voting population excited for midterms.

Sad that voters of both parties don’t get how important these elections are.

Quote: darkoz

Why do you confuse the two

Im not arguing for those sneaking in. They do exist

But asking for asylum is not sneaking in. This is common sense

If I knock on your door do you call the pokice and say someone is attempting to break in?

I suppose someone with your mindset does

Quote: ams288

No matter how many times you repeat this won't make it true.

Quote: beachbumbabs

If I were analyzing Ryan's moves I would say he's listening to Scott Walker, who is also losing support in Wisconsin. They both believe Trump is a severe deviation by the party, that he will not hold in the long run, and his base will fall apart once he himself is gone.

So, the long game is, let Trump self-destruct, burn out, whatever he's going to do, but without being part of the active conversation, withdraw from the field of battle. Then pick up the pieces, in 2024, possibly even in 2020, and make a run for the Conservative non-Trumpers willing to form a coalition.

The country as a whole polls slightly right of center. The conversation behind closed Republican doors is very different, not just in Ryan's chambers, than the one the party presents. Very possible he has a real chance to come back as the Conservative of reason and pragmatism. But not if he rides the trump train into the dirt.

He's not the only one seeing this as his best path to success
John Kasich is definitely positioning himself to be that voice in 2020. Even Pence has made some aborted moves to hedge his position, but his reins keep getting jerked by the Trumpers, so I don't think he'll be able to pull it off. Souls stay sold.

Quote: beachbumbabs

That's kind of a bizarre way to look at it. Maybe by the very end that was the case or something, but it's been widely reported he filed bankruptcy 4 times over them, and everybody else involved lost their stake, and he claimed to be broke from them very publicly, ando screwed all his creditors. He even bragged aboit it during the campaign, saying he was a smart guy who used the bankruptcy laws to his advantage. I don't think all that happens if he's just renting them his name.

I don't think anyone really knows the whole story.

Maybe some parts are in public records because of the bankruptcy courts. Maybe even all of it. Probably a lot in the NYT/NYP archives, but not something I followed at the time.