Strip subway?

Monorails and trams are okay, but it seems to me that the best way to move people up and down the strip would be by subway, with frequent stops.

An air-conditioned, undergroung tube system would be especially appreciated by tourists when the weather gets hot, which it does for many months at a time.

I wonder why it was never designed and built?

hint: it's not too late!

IF the goal was to eliminate congestion on the strip, then I would propose building a new Monorail track right down the middle of the Strip. They already have all the train cars.

But I don't think anyone actually has that goal in mind. It won't happen because there is no way for casinos to make a profit off of it.

Quote: MrV

Monorails and trams are okay, but it seems to me that the best way to move people up and down the strip would be by subway, with frequent stops.

An air-conditioned, undergroung tube system would be especially appreciated by tourists when the weather gets hot, which it does for many months at a time.

I wonder why it was never designed and built?

hint: it's not too late!

Things to consider:

1. Cost & financing
a) ROI
b) maintenance & operating cost
c) bond offering
d) tax & fee
e) public and/or private partnership
f) ….

2. Technical feasibility/difficulty ???
a) underground rock/soil formation
b) existing underground electrical/gas/phone lines
c) existing underground water & sewage lines
d) water table (perhaps not a concern in this dry desert)
e) land acquisitions & requirement for eminent domain
f) financial & safety impact to existing casinos and other above ground structures/buildings during construction
g) in-fighting among self interest groups: casino owners, transportation industries, hookers & SP hot GF.
h) …

My guess is after all the studies were conducted, underground subway(s) along the strip would not be feasible due to cost and negative ROI.

Quote: JohnnyQ

IF the goal was to eliminate congestion on the strip, then I would propose building a new Monorail track right down the middle of the Strip. They already have all the train cars.

But I don't think anyone actually has that goal in mind. It won't happen because there is no way for casinos to make a profit off of it.

It might put the Deuce/SDX out of business

Zip line between Mandalay and the Trump hotel.

Sure, it would be nice, but I don't think the enormous cost would justify the benefit. The Deuce bus already works pretty well and the monorail is another option. I'd like to see the city add more buses as the ones they already have are often filled to capacity on busy days.

Subways are better left to huge high-density cities.

There's too much strip traffic as it is. It's an almost hour ride on the Deuce from MB to downtown. But you're right, it's jammed before making the second stop.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

There's too much strip traffic as it is. It's an almost hour ride on the Deuce from MB to downtown. But you're right, it's jammed before making the second stop.

True. I'd like to see the monorail extend to downtown, and the airport, but it is what it is.

Strip casinos have spent a lot of money on volcanoes, fountain shows, gondolas, and sphinxes to increase foot traffic and entice gamblers into their establishments. I wonder if they'd be in favor of moving everyone underground.

The price tag would be in the billions; I suppose the county could confiscate all that new parking revenue.

I always appreciate that kind of capital-intensive mass transit as a visitor, but I sure wouldn't like paying for it as a local. Are those systems ever self-supporting?

One light rain sprinkle and a subway would probably flood.

Quote: Calder

Are those systems ever self-supporting?

I highly doubt public transportation is ever self supporting but is heavily subsidized.

Quote: Wizard

I highly doubt public transportation is ever self supporting but is heavily subsidized.

That's why regional transit here in Detroit got shot down last November. Tax payers don't want another burden. We have two systems here, DDOT and SMART and that vote would've created a third one. What they need to do is combine the two existing ones into one service.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

That's why regional transit here in Detroit got shot down last November. Tax payers don't want another burden. We have two systems here, DDOT and SMART and that vote would've created a third one. What they need to do is combine the two existing ones into one service.

I don't know about Detroit but in general I'd happily pay more in taxes to have a system of public transportation like they do in most of Europe.

I seem to recall a below ground system being considered when the monorail was proposed. I don't think it was feasible because of the cost.

I think part of what makes mass transit feasible is when the stops are convenient to where people want to be. No one wants to ride a train, then have to also take a cab or bus to get where they want to go.

However, an Airport / Strip / Downtown light rail system makes a lot of sense. Let it run right down the middle of Las Vegas Blvd.

New construction, whether hotels or a stadium would be mandated to design in stops or stations.

Quote: Wizard

I'd like to see the city add more buses as the ones they already have are often filled to capacity on busy days.

Yep, I gotta think that DOUBLING the # of buses on the Strip would be 1000x more cost efficient than any sort of additional monorail, above or especially BELOW ground.

Quote: MrV

but it seems to me that the best way to move people up and down the strip would be by subway, with frequent stops.

An air-conditioned, undergroung tube system would be especially appreciated by tourists when the weather gets hot, which it does for many months at a time.

I wonder why it was never designed and built?

Would you ride it if tickets were priced to pay for it over time ? $ 73 per one way ride ?

It seems that all of the talk is about a subway system that just covers downtown - strip - airport, and maybe the motor speedway and the new football stadium as well.

How many other cities have a "small" subway system? San Francisco's extends 50 miles into the suburbs, and took something like 15 years just to get its initial phase done (and this doesn't include the tube that runs along the bottom of San Francisco Bay, which took another two years).

Then again, speaking of San Francisco, quite a bit of its light rail service does run underground, and in Vegas, it could be extended in pretty much every direction.

I understand that the cost of installing an underground transportation system now would probably be prohibitive, but why didn't they consider it "back in the day?"

One possible way the powers that control the Nevada purse strings could fund it would be via a quid pro quo: have the feds pick up the tab in exchange for dropping their objection to a permanent nuclear waster repository at Yucca mountain.

*not feasible, just a pipe dream*

Just was thinking today after reading the thread about what to do in Vegas, besides casinos, the parking fees might be to keep people in their casinos by making having a car on vacation not worth it upfront because of the extra costs. If the average person wants to leave and go somewhere else, it will cost them to have that freedom, unless they're already paying through the nose for a high tier, but then they jeopardize that by leaving a few hours. An affordable easily used, clean and safe, transportation system is good for everyone, but the places coming their rooms expecting them to be hostages. Iirc, the monorail or whatever it is, is hardly accessible and convenient, jammed way behind the casinos. It's on the casinos not having people movers running there and back.

Public transportation I like in theory, but inconvenience and lack of options are the number one problems. For.the rest, they don't like it because they don't like being surrounded by brown people. It's a fact. Greyhound is 50% minority, Mega Bus seems like 100% white from what I've seen. That's why public support isn't there for public transportation and probably why there is a loss, white people wont use it unless they must almost. It's a loss burning all that gas, maintaining those cars, paying for them but there is more profit in divide and conquer.

I'm not intimated because I intimate not appearing to be an easy target. If I was small in stature or a woman, I might understand having fear. For public transportation to work, things need to be flipped so the general public feels stupid not using it. People are getting injured and killed every day in car accidents, safety is much about perception, nobody starts the car thinking today's the day.

Mrv is ahead of his time and in the wrong country unfortunately. Even the so called great system in Europe is being dismantled piece by piece for profits I've read and seen.

Quote: MrV

I understand that the cost of installing an underground transportation system now would probably be prohibitive, but why didn't they consider it "back in the day?"

I suspect because back in the day the choices were:

1. Come up with a funding plan, get the cooperation of each level of government, have each property needing a subway stop to sign on, bring in heavy equipment, dig a tunnel, reroute the existing utilities as necessary, lay some tracks, then start arguing about funding going forward, or

2. Go one block east or west of the strip and lay a new roadway in the open desert.

One word

CALICHE

And as Axel pointed out, diverting the flood waters. Have a look around the Linq next time it rains a 1/4"

Quote: MaxPen

... Have a look around the Linq next time it rains a 1/4"

Yes! Known for years as "The IP (Imperial Palace) River/Rapids" and "Lake Audrie" and "The Koval Sea." Really quite impressive when it gets cranked up enough to carry away assorted luggage, furniture, bodies, whatever from whoknowswhere, and probably my favorite unofficial Strip sightseeing attraction! Provided I wasn't foolish enough to park in the garage in monsoon season with much of the population of California, where everyone will now be trapped (and hilariously demanding that "somebody do something!") for about a day and a half.

But I only peeked in here hoping for the restoration of vital infrastructure in the form of a < $6 footlong Spicy Italian on parmesan-oregano, after the death of same on the Strip came with the assassination of O'Sheas, so y'all just carry on playing with your magic choo-choo dreams.

Quote: MrV

I understand that the cost of installing an underground transportation system now would probably be prohibitive, but why didn't they consider it "back in the day?"

One possible way the powers that control the Nevada purse strings could fund it would be via a quid pro quo: have the feds pick up the tab in exchange for dropping their objection to a permanent nuclear waster repository at Yucca mountain.

*not feasible, just a pipe dream*

Who would have known the rapid population growth, the rapid growth in gaming properties & revenues, and other rapid industrial, commercial & residential developments "back in the day?"

Perhaps the failure of city planners in forecasting city's growth, the poor planning in urban development, the lack of tax revenue, the citizens' lack of interest, the political gamesmanships, or technical obstacles can be reasons why underground transportation was not planned back then. Luckily, there are many alternate transportation solutions to underground subways, and Las Vegas was able adjusted and adapted to the congested highways and roads. Congestion is very common problem in many big cities, but it is a thing that people can get use to and is easily adaptable.

What if another issue like nuclear waste disposal in Yucca mountain that you pointed out, or climate change where the consequential impact can be catastrophic & result in lifelong lasting impact if not properly planned? Let's take the current controversial climate change topic as an example -- there are two sides to this topic: climate change is a hoax, and climate change is real. What is the potential impact of climate change, how should we (and all people on planet Earth also) tackle it and what would be consequence if we all ignore it? And if we tackle climate change now, and later in distance future we realized that there is no climate change, what harm was made due to our err in judgment?

Climate change or other planning can be about risk v. benefit, and risk management, but I am not going to address the climate change issue in details here because I don't want to hijack this Las Vegas urban's subway planning thread and turn it to the World's planning for climate change thread. I only bring up climate change here because it relates to future planning whether it is a local & small scale like Las Vegas' subway, or a much bigger scale like the planet Earth's climate change that can cause severe impact to the entire World's population; and because I also want everyone to think about the consequence of our action and in-action in planning for our future at local level and the future of planet Earth at a worldwide level.

As I briefly alluded to earlier, urban planning and development would require forecasting or projection. Although no one can predict the future with high degree of certainty, after all we are all human and can make mistake, but we all can still plan for the future using the available technical/scientific data and analysis to the best of our ability. It is important for city planners, leaders and citizens to work together in planning for the future, and when evaluating the consequential impact of action vs. no action, IMO, conservative decision should be made base on the "err on side of caution" principle if the potential adverse impact can be catastrophic or is lifelong lasting.

I do think an interesting side-topic here would be...

- What could/should be done to "cost effectively" ease the traffic congestion on the Strip ?

- And/or, is there any reason to try and do that ?

I imagine that forty years ago, there discussion was what can we do about the traffic on Fremont Street.

Get rid of the trucks advertising porn would help a tad.

Quote: JohnnyQ

I do think an interesting side-topic here would be...

- What could/should be done to "cost effectively" ease the traffic congestion on the Strip ?

- And/or, is there any reason to try and do that ?

Possibly closing it to private vehicles. Allow only cabs, buses, and shuttles. I'd prohibit limos. This might also free up enough space for the Wiz's monorail idea within the current right-of-way.

But in the end, the strip congestion doesn't bother me, I know enough to just avoid it.

Quote: AxelWolf

One light rain sprinkle and a subway would probably flood.

That was my first thought. Despite the enormous cost of boring and the inevitable discrepancy between where pipes are indicated and where they actually are, rember why the land at the old IP was so cheap, it was built over a flood drain.

BEST would be a trackless train....one that follows pavement painted rectangles. No rails, no boring, no construction. Just paint four inch square dice on the strip and its 'instant light rail without any rails'.

Quote: FleaStiff

BEST would be a trackless train....one that follows pavement painted rectangles. No rails, no boring, no construction. Just paint four inch square dice on the strip and its 'instant light rail without any rails'.

Updated June 9, 2017 - 9:47 pm
Gov. Brian Sandoval gave the green light this week for officials to seek funding to build a light-rail line that could cost up to $705 million and carry passengers from McCarran International Airport to downtown Las Vegas as soon as 2023. -lvrj.com

Quote: 777

urban planning and development would require forecasting or projection.

Urban planners are fools with crystal balls that want to impose their visions on property that they do not own.

Quote: JohnnyQ

I do think an interesting side-topic here would be...

- What could/should be done to "cost effectively" ease the traffic congestion on the Strip ?

- And/or, is there any reason to try and do that ?

Can the strip be widened much further?

I don’t think the underground subway or above ground rail system can alleviate traffic congestions on the strip because it does not result in great reduction of number of automobiles passing through the strip daily. The underground subway or above ground rail system provides convenience for tourist and local residents who don’t drive or don’t have cars. The buses traveling the strip daily are in very small number (perhaps 10 buses at most at any one given time???), so replacing these buses with an underground subway or above ground rail system does little to nothing to ease the congestion. I guess Las Vegas resident on the strip must adjust and adapt to the congestion just like any other big cities.

Also, a single mono rail solution like many people here had suggested will cause havoc in waiting time and therefore is not practical. Who would want to wait 30 minutes or more at each on/off stop? For the mono rail system to be effective in reducing rider’s waiting time, I think there must be at least 2 to 4 mono rail lines running simultaneously (perhaps 2 express lines & 2 regular lines). Is the strip wide enough to accommodate 4 mono rail lines? And if it is feasible, what about cost of a single rail line vs. two or four rail lines?

Quote: Calder

Possibly closing it to private vehicles. Allow only cabs, buses, and shuttles. I'd prohibit limos. This might also free up enough space for the Wiz's monorail idea within the current right-of-way.

But in the end, the strip congestion doesn't bother me, I know enough to just avoid it.

It is a good idea if the city can establish alternate routes for non-commercial vehicles to access to properties on the strip.

The city need tax revenues, and prohibiting private vehicles without providing alternate convenient access points to properties on the strip is like killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Quote: AxelWolf

One light rain sprinkle and a subway would probably flood.

build it to take care of any city flooding problems

Megastructures - Smart Tunnel Kuala Lumpur Documentary National Geographic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kw1wuhGg0k

Quote: SanchoPanza

Updated June 9, 2017 - 9:47 pm
Gov. Brian Sandoval gave the green light this week for officials to seek funding to build a light-rail line that could cost up to $705 million and carry passengers from McCarran International Airport to downtown Las Vegas as soon as 2023. -lvrj.com

And for my next prediction, the answer to the card in the envelope that has been hemetically sealed in a pickle jar on the porch of Funk and Wagnell's is,

"Sis Boom Bah"

Quote: Ayecarumba

And for my next prediction, the answer to the card in the envelope that has been hemetically sealed in a pickle jar on the porch of Funk and Wagnell's is,

I think it was a mayonnaise jar.

Quote: Wizard

I think it was a mayonnaise jar.

Hehe... That's only after noon... on the back porch

Quote: FleaStiff

That was my first thought. Despite the enormous cost of boring and the inevitable discrepancy between where pipes are indicated and where they actually are, rember why the land at the old IP was so cheap, it was built over a flood drain.

BEST would be a trackless train....one that follows pavement painted rectangles. No rails, no boring, no construction. Just paint four inch square dice on the strip and its 'instant light rail without any rails'.

Didn't Wynn get a great deal on the land for the Mirage as it was adjacent to a volcano?

Quote: Ayecarumba

Hehe... That's only after noon... on the back porch

I think there was a WoV trivia challenge question about this.

They should just build an elevated walkway with one of those airport conveyor belts on it.

Quote: TigerWu

They should just build an elevated walkway with one of those airport conveyor belts on it.

Only if it moves FAST. With all the laws about the handicapped, it would probably crawl and have too many gawkers.

Quote: FleaStiff

it would probably crawl and have too many gawkers.

It definitely would have tons of gawkers. The moving walkway leading into the Bellagio is a perfect example.

Quote: Wizard

It definitely would have tons of gawkers. The moving walkway leading into the Bellagio is a perfect example.

And just like half of the escalators, it'll probably break down a lot.