Can casinos be guilty of mail fraud?
Quote: onenickelmiracleI was at Hollywood today complaining to a stranger about the drawings shenanigans and the man made a confession. In the same Loss rebate for new members Mission participated in and was given the run around, he and 3 others were too. He said all four lost over $100 and none of them received the free play promised. In his case, he said the casino claimed he won $600. Widespread fraud with that promotion seems almost certain.
I can't say much on that other than a good policy, when playing a Loss Rebate, is to confirm the amount lost at the cage before leaving. There are some situations in which that might not be possible, of course.
They'll just lie and deny later on or say then they can't tell yet. I suppose it's a good idea, maybe need to secretly record the conversation.Quote: Mission146I can't say much on that other than a good policy, when playing a Loss Rebate, is to confirm the amount lost at the cage before leaving. There are some situations in which that might not be possible, of course.
I did the Loss Rebate there after M146 at Hollywood, and didn't have any problems. The hassle is that you only get 1/4 of it in each of 4 weekly periods.Quote: onenickelmiracleIn the same Loss rebate for new members Mission participated in and was given the run around, he and 3 others were too. He said all four lost over $100 and none of them received the free play promised.
Quote: onenickelmiracleThey'll just lie and deny later on or say then they can't tell yet. I suppose it's a good idea, maybe need to secretly record the conversation.
That's basically my point, just that it doesn't hurt to ask. If they do say something that you believe to be incorrect, then at least you'll be able to try to address it with someone at the time. Much tougher to make any argument you have after the fact.
Also, these types of things often go by what I will call, "Loss tiers," which is to say that a $500 Loss Rebate may pay out $125 FP over four weeks, but if you lose $499, you could drop to $100 a week for four weeks. You've basically reduced yourself to a rebate just over 80% if that happens.
What I would generally do, since slot tickets can be transferred from one machine to the other (if you plan to switch) anyway, is just to load up one machine with $510, or something like that, then you know you have lost at least $500 when your ticket drops to $10 or less. The memory is fallible, after all. The only thing that can throw a monkey wrench in that plan is hitting a hand pay, but if the rebate is still worth doing after that (in your estimation) then just load the machine with whatever the hand pay was for.
Quote: billryanA bunch of states have two party consent to record. How ironic would it be to get arrested while attempting to prove a casino is guilty of something. Tape won't be admissible, either.
Check the laws before recording, but that's a great point to bring up. In Ohio, if the recording takes place with the consent of any parties involved in the conversation (which can include the party actually doing the recording) the recording would be admissible. As you mentioned, other states vary.
I always believed you can record anyone involved in a conversation without their consent, as long as you are having a conversation, in Ohio. Federally across state lines, need consent. Contradiction, every company seems to just warn you calls are monitored and recorded.Quote: Mission146Check the laws before recording, but that's a great point to bring up. In Ohio, if the recording takes place with the consent of any parties involved in the conversation (which can include the party actually doing the recording) the recording would be admissible. As you mentioned, other states vary.
Conversation just means you have spoke to them and they have spoke to you, think it can be as simple as saying hello to have it all it permissible. I looked this up years ago, things may have changed, just referring to audio. In public spaces, no consent needed, but you need consent to publish it to the public, visually at least.
Las Vegas Casinos are a business, period.
They have laws and regulations they must comply with.
Now tribal casinos, that's another story.
I always wonder why they play a game they know is rigged. The answers can be entertaining.
That's not even an argument, and those are not facts. You're basically just saying everything is alright because it has to be alright. I'm saying things are not alright, because the casinos are too big to be bullied and the regulators are too dependent on them for money, cannot afford bad public perception. They're doing wrong, but nobody powerful will stand up. Mail fraud and such is a vague law, the government pretty much only prosecutes those that they can overpower. Parties can be guilty, but not disciplined. Look at Madoff, which fits all your criteria and makes your post totally useless.Quote: MrVNonsense.
Las Vegas Casinos are a business, period.
They have laws and regulations they must comply with.
Now tribal casinos, that's another story.
You I believe as well. Never have heard anyone speak well of that promotion, but for those that it ran smoothly, no reason to discuss it amongst strangers and why we wouldn't have heard of it.Quote: JohnnyQI did the Loss Rebate there after M146 at Hollywood, and didn't have any problems. The hassle is that you only get 1/4 of it in each of 4 weekly periods.
Quote: onenickelmiracleI always believed you can record anyone involved in a conversation without their consent, as long as you are having a conversation, in Ohio. Federally across state lines, need consent. Contradiction, every company seems to just warn you calls are monitored and recorded.
Not quite, in Ohio, at least one party must give consent, but that party can be the party doing the recording. Naturally, the party doing the recording is consenting by way of the fact that it is the party recording it, however, that party also has to be a direct party to the conversation.
In other words, I couldn't bug you and someone else talking and record it unless I had the consent of you or the other person. If you and I are talking, however, I could record that as much as I like.
Quote: onenickelmiracleYou I believe as well. Never have heard anyone speak well of that promotion, but for those that it ran smoothly, no reason to discuss it amongst strangers and why we wouldn't have heard of it.
I also concur with this, if JohnnyQ says that was his experience, then I 100% take that at face value. Both my girlfriend and myself had difficulties with it, but again, that was my experience.
Quote: Mission146Check the laws before recording, but that's a great point to bring up. ... As you mentioned, other states vary.
You can check state legal requirements when recording phone calls here:
Reporter's Recording Guide
Florida has a 2-party consent law, which means everyone being recorded must agree to the recording in advance (although there are numerous law-enforcement and other exceptions).
Quote: Florida Statutes Section 934.03(2)(d)It is lawful under this section and ss. 934.04-934.09 for a person to intercept a wire, oral, or electronic communication when all of the parties to the communication have given prior consent to such interception.
So, when I call a casino about room availability or a promotional offer, how do they get away with recording me without my permission? We've all heard it:
Quote: Recorded voice at start:This call may be recorded for training or quality assurance purposes. Please hold for the next available customer service representative.
As far as I'm concerned, that means I can record the call also, because the casino (or other vendor) never specifically says they -- and they alone -- can record the call. Make no mistake, if I have a problem resulting from my phone conversation, it probably affects the "quality assurance" I expect, and better "training" can often fix the problem, right?
I assume they are on the right side of the law when they DISCLOSE it upfront in that pre-recorded message we have all heard 100's of times.Quote: LuckyPhow
So, when I call a casino about room availability or a promotional offer, how do they get away with recording me without my permission? We've all heard it:
Then again, I've never stayed at a Holiday Inn.
Quote: onenickelmiracleBob dancer had an article on the same subject, where the post card was clearly different than the rules. He was compensated, don't know if anyone else was, and until anyone says differently, safe to assume gaming took no action. Penn National tends to continually make these mistakes, dont know of others having blatant problems.
What actions should Gaming have done? What was the crime? Pulling tickets at 630 instead of 7PM?
Let's make you Queen for the Day. Pronounce sentence.
First things first, I would order the casino that any promotion they run where they send mail or email, a hard copy must be sent to gaming along with the official rules, and for the complete official rules to be posted online. Every time your post card is a weaker promotion than the official rules, you're fined, with the possibility of being barred from having promotions an option, either momentarily or permanently.Quote: billryanQuote: onenickelmiracleBob dancer had an article on the same subject, where the post card was clearly different than the rules. He was compensated, don't know if anyone else was, and until anyone says differently, safe to assume gaming took no action. Penn National tends to continually make these mistakes, dont know of others having blatant problems.
What actions should Gaming have done? What was the crime? Pulling tickets at 630 instead of 7PM?
Let's make you Queen for the Day. Pronounce sentence.
For this and all promotions, the difference in value between the mail and the official rules, will be your fine, multiplied from 3 times to 10 times. If a promotion was better than the mail implied, there most likely would not be a fine, but could be if some parties were injured, but others benefit.
I would then promote myself to king, castrate and behead anyone that suggested I be queen.
Duly Noted.
Or so I've heard.
