Is it a crap table or craps table?

In other words, when used as an adjective, is it crap or craps?

I think you mean noun, not adjective.
The game is Banked Craps. Therefore its a Craps table. Though I usually say Dice Game or Dice Table or Dice Dealer.
Of course, if you want it used as an adjective, you just have to ask how I made out at the dice table: crappy! Or is that adverb? I don't know... just find the Tray Lizard and we will ask her to settle this! But I ain't never heard "Chinese Checker" or "Domino" ... its always plural. 'Sides, if people of French descent in New Orleans had been saying Crab rather than Crabs, the people of English and Spanish descent would have understood them better!

IMO in all uses it should be Craps...

had a discussion of sorts with someone who pointed out that the expression 'Crap game' is used, but to me to point out common usage doesnt 100% win an argument. So I say only 'Craps' in all uses, although I have caught myself breaking my own rule.

Well, of course I don't really KNOW, but I try to conform to what I have read, which is this. "Craps" is the name of the game and is a noun. "Crap" is an adjective, so that you can have a crap table, a crap layout, a crap shoot, or a crap bet. I think you can have a crap game or a game of craps. I know I am not always consistent in my usage, but I try to follow this.

Seems as if there have been other threads in which I have mentioned that language can get in the way of a discussion.

That sure is a crappy craps table...

Anyway, I've never heard anyone call it a "crap table", ALWAYS "craps table" or "craps pit"

"craps" - noun
"craps table" - compound noun
"crap table" - adjective modifying table though any table I suppose can be crap.

Quote: Asswhoopermcdaddy

"craps" - noun
"craps table" - compound noun
"crap table" - adjective modifying table though any table I suppose can be crap.

That sounds like a reasonable, hedge-your-bets kind of answer. Well done!

On the other hand, since the voting is currently running 7 to 1 against the position I described above, I am curious. Do the rest of you refer to a risky endeavor as a "craps shoot" instead of a "crap shoot" as I say it? Or does your vote perhaps just refer to usage with "table" as the title of the thread asks?

I think it is unfortunate that I can't think of another table game (blackjack, 3CP, etc.) that has a similar option to crap/craps, so that I could compare how I would say it for other games.

Thanks for the answers thus far. However, for those of you who voted for craps, I think Dictionary.com would disagree with you. While it doesn't specifically mention a crap/craps table, it does mention:

crap game

crap out

Among many definitions, one of crap is "a losing throw, in which the total on the two dice is 2, 3, or 12."

So, if it is a crap game, shouldn't it be a crap table? Also, if crap is a throw of 2, 3, or 12, then shouldn't the bet be "any crap" not "any craps." You wouldn't call the bet on a 7 "any sevens."

(1) Slight vindication in that Dictionary.com seems to support my lonely position on "crap table"

(2) I looked at the WoO site, and it seems that the Wizard uses "crap table"

(3) In a possible reversal, I disagree with Dictionary.com on at least one point: I would call a throw of 2, 3, or 12 to be "craps" and the source of the name of the game.

Are you talking about the NAME of the game, or describing the game?

If the word is capitalized, then it is also plural.

If it's used as an adjective, then its 'crap', although you're not gonna get anyone too upset buy using 'craps' as an adjective.



I.E. It's either a 'Craps table' or a 'crap table'.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Are you talking about the NAME of the game, or describing the game?

If the word is capitalized, then it is also plural.

I guess I don't intentionally capitalize "craps" any more than I would "blackjack" or "baseball".

My general policy is to capitalize games that are owned by somebody, like Three Card Poker and Super Fun 21, and not to capitalize common domain games like craps and blackjack. Sometimes I'm still on the fence, like with Pai Gow Poker.

Wiz -

I get where you're coming from, but it is somewhat misguided.

A name, whether proprietary or not, is still a name. Therefore, when used as a name, should be capitalized.

But I agree that the dividing line when using it as an adjective, is quite unclear.

For example, Pai Gow is a specific type of game. Isn't it also an adjective to describe a type of Poker? Then again is 'poker' an adjective used to describe a type of card game? Note my capitalization.


Bottom line: this is too damn confusing for our feeble little heads. Or at least my feeble little head.

And for that reason, I didn't vote.



You used to be a college professor. Didn't you make friends with any English teachers that can give you a definitive answer?

OK, I'll be the first to say what quite a few of us may be thinking: a crap table sounds like something to do with excrement, very disagreeable to the ear, while a Craps Table is something respectable. And just about every thing else about the game sounds better as "Craps" never "crap" if I had my way.

its a racial/cultural thing.

if youre black, its crap.

if youre white, its craps.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

A name, whether proprietary or not, is still a name. Therefore, when used as a name, should be capitalized.

Golly, DJ. I think I almost always agree with your posts, but it seems we see this point differently. Going back to my earlier examples, do you normally capitalize "baseball", "soccer", "blackjack", and the names of other generic games? I never intentionally do unless it's the beginning of a sentence or something. Have I misinterpreted your position?

Quote: rudeboyoi

its a racial/cultural thing.

if youre black, its crap.

if youre white, its craps.

Now if I could just get that rhythm thing down and learn to dance...

Doc -

Hmmm... You make a legitimate point.

OK. Forget everything I said, except the part about finding an English professor to ask...

Quote: Wizard

Also, if crap is a throw of 2, 3, or 12, then shouldn't the bet be "any crap" not "any craps." You wouldn't call the bet on a 7 "any sevens."

"Any craps", since there are 3 crap numbers (2,3,12). Thus, betting any craps meaning any of those three dice result possibilities. As opposed to any seven, since that is only one dice result possibility (7). All of this, of course, not taking into account the fact that there is more than one way to roll a 7. The typical person doesn't think about that, but only the fact that 7 is one result. 2,3,12 is 3 results.

I vote for "craps table". I tell my girlfriend I'm playing craps, or I'm heading to the craps table. Actually, when we walk into a casino, I usually say, "Oh, look. They have craps. Maybe I'll try to learn the game."

Quote: rudeboyoi

its a racial/cultural thing.

if youre black, its crap.

if youre white, its craps.

good stuff!
I actually heard that at a table one day. An older asian gentleman laughed and added, " then me being yellow, I must be crappy"

Quote: konceptum

"Any craps", since there are 3 crap numbers (2,3,12). Thus, betting any craps meaning any of those three dice result possibilities. As opposed to any seven, since that is only one dice result possibility (7). All of this, of course, not taking into account the fact that there is more than one way to roll a 7. The typical person doesn't think about that, but only the fact that 7 is one result. 2,3,12 is 3 results.

If the typical player just wants to bet on a 7, then why not just call the bet "seven." By putting "any" in front of it, you imply there are multiple ways to get a 7, and the bet is on all of them. I'm not saying that "any sevens" is correct English, but if "any seven" is correct, then "any crap" should be too. If you wish to argue it should be "any craps" because the 2, 3, and 12 can be bet individually, the same could be said of betting on 7, by betting the 1-6, 2-5, and 3-4 hops separately. I might add you would get a better value doing it that way too.

You seem to understand all this. I guess my point is that I think most players and dealers are not using correct English at the crap [ahem] table. It could be argued that the dictionaries should be updated to allow for the changing usage of crap and craps.

Also, I think if this survey were done on those over the age of 60 only then "crap table" would likely win.

I like to bet "any craps" at the crappy crap table.

The reason I think that they don't just call the bet "seven" is because it's an unlucky word to say. So, the bet is called "Big Red".

Personally, it's a matter of history. Craps and crap are interchangeable. I've heard dealers yell both. It depends on whether when you throw a 2, 3 or 12, it's crap, or is it Craps. I don't know.

Quote: Wizard

Also, I think if this survey were done on those over the age of 60 only then "crap table" would likely win.

Well, that could explain one of the (now total of 2 out of 18) votes for "crap". I'm not sure who the other potential-geezer voter might be.

Quote: Wizard

I guess my point is that I think most players and dealers are not using correct English at the crap [ahem] table.

How much of the incorrect usage of the English language is due to texting?

Not to derail the thread, but I find the bad usage of the English language to be rather annoying. And yes, that previous sentence was horrible in the usage of English. My girlfriend gets mad at me because I always point out road signs that I feel are vague or just poorly worded. I always wonder if that could be used in a court of law to defend a certain action that someone takes.

Two examples:

1) Here in Phoenix, they built a light-rail train system, not too long ago. At the crossings of the tracks, there is a sign that reads "Do Not Drive on Tracks". Of course, they mean that someone should not be driving down on top of the track, but because of the wording, it almost seems like you can't even cross the track, because you would have to drive on it in order to do so.

2) I went on a road trip to California. The HOV lanes there read something along the lines of "HOV is 2 or more persons per vehicle". To me (maybe because I'm a gambler) that implies that the AVERAGE needs to be 2 persons per vehicle. In other words, 3 persons in one vehicle, and 1 person in another vehicle, meets the average and should be allowed. I guess I would write it as "HOV is 2 or more persons in each vehicle".

Now, those may not necessarily be bad usage of the English language, just more vague usage of the English language. Much like the lack of assurance on whether we're playing at a craps table, a crap table, a Craps Table, or a Crap Table.

But I'd still much rather see someone take a switch to all these kids that are texting and writing "u" instead of "you", as if those 2 extra letters are going to kill them.

According to Webster, The name of the game is derived from Louisiana French. It's origin is from the English dice game "hazard" where the lowest throw was known as "crabs". Webster notes "craps" functions as a,"noun plural but singular or plural in construction"

Source:
"craps." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2010.

Merriam-Webster Online. 6 July 2010
<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/craps>


However, "crap" (a noun), is also defined as an "attributive form" of craps, (e.g., "crap game", "crap table")

Source:
"crap[3]." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2010.

Merriam-Webster Online. 6 July 2010
<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crap[3]>


Therefore, according to Webster, when talking about the table, "crap table" is appropriate.