Markers and Fools

Maybe I should have titled this, "Markers and Being Foolish"???

If you think you are immune from the 'lure' of the tables and winning, I am pretty safe to say, almost of us are not. Maybe not you (meaning-the person reading this) but most of us are legitimate and ultimate prey. I would not be saying this, but over he weekend I get a call from someone I have not spoke to me for the better part of 2014.

So, the guy calls me up. Pretty down. He is into a two properties for well over $200k. Three times they extended him $75k. We are about the same style and wager of playing. He plays a bit more careful than I. We both used to do only FM/Cash. But around 2012 or 13 he moved to markers. Had $50k or $75k line at the couple places he played at. When he was on cash, I really do think he played excellent and had that value to 'hard earned money' out there. (in my mind I am totally convinced there is a huge (HUGE) difference in the respect a person has with, you own cash on the table versus markers.

I am thoroughly convinced that losing you own physical cash stock, going home and recouping is a lot different than playing with the casinos markers that someday you might or might not have to pay back. Please read>>>all IMO only!

Tells me he blew one night his marker so quick and nothing like the way he used to play. Could not explain it to me or even himself. Further tells me he tried to play catch up with the next one a week later. Then he lost that too, straight lose. Then he goes back a few weeks later and takes another marker he had at a different property. Lost that. Said he was wagering faster and larger than he ever did with cash. He compares it to driving a super fast sports car in a league he was not familiar with.

He is a good person, great business and has the assets to pay it off. No, he is not a whale, just a solid, full comp'd, player that wagers usually $2-$5k a hand if things are right. Down to $1k or even less when things are not there. Really a good all around very savory player. But the paper money got to him and it will hurt him to pay it back. Sad, very sad.

It sounds like he was chasing losses and perhaps made some desperate or foolish bets trying to get it all back at once. I have never had 5K on the felt at once. The most I have ever had on a hand of anything was $750 and that was after a long string of consecutive wins and increasing my bet by roughly 50% after every win. (Started at $25). What caused me to get up was the pit boss decided to change dealers. So I colored up and left.

Quote: Baccaratfrom79

Maybe I should have titled this, "Markers and Being Foolish"???

If you think you are immune from the 'lure' of the tables and winning, I am pretty safe to say, almost of us are not. Maybe not you (meaning-the person reading this) but most of us are legitimate and ultimate prey. I would not be saying this, but over he weekend I get a call from someone I have not spoke to me for the better part of 2014.

So, the guy calls me up. Pretty down. He is into a two properties for well over $200k. Three times they extended him $75k. We are about the same style and wager of playing. He plays a bit more careful than I. We both used to do only FM/Cash. But around 2012 or 13 he moved to markers. Had $50k or $75k line at the couple places he played at. When he was on cash, I really do think he played excellent and had that value to 'hard earned money' out there. (in my mind I am totally convinced there is a huge (HUGE) difference in the respect a person has with, you own cash on the table versus markers.

I am thoroughly convinced that losing you own physical cash stock, going home and recouping is a lot different than playing with the casinos markers that someday you might or might not have to pay back. Please read>>>all IMO only!

Tells me he blew one night his marker so quick and nothing like the way he used to play. Could not explain it to me or even himself. Further tells me he tried to play catch up with the next one a week later. Then he lost that too, straight lose. Then he goes back a few weeks later and takes another marker he had at a different property. Lost that. Said he was wagering faster and larger than he ever did with cash. He compares it to driving a super fast sports car in a league he was not familiar with.

He is a good person, great business and has the assets to pay it off. No, he is not a whale, just a solid, full comp'd, player that wagers usually $2-$5k a hand if things are right. Down to $1k or even less when things are not there. Really a good all around very savory player. But the paper money got to him and it will hurt him to pay it back. Sad, very sad.

Yeah, markers scare the hell out of me. I've only ever played with my own cash. I can absolutely see myself justifying what this guy did, one step at a time deeper into it, until I was done to a sizzle. So I've refused every offer to set up credit.

I have never opened a marker because they scare the hell out of me, too. It's just too easy (for me) to blow through that, it's almost as though it's not "real" money. What works for me is money in the safe. I have to go up to the room to get more. A lot of times that 10 minute walk is enough to clear my head and make me stop and think if I've had enough for the night. I confess to having pretty poor discipline but knowing that about myself has helped me avoid trouble. May I add that the candor on this forum is very refreshing. People actually admit to their losses and struggles. Not commonly found among gamblers LOL

Quote: Gabes22

It sounds like he was chasing losses and perhaps made some desperate or foolish bets trying to get it all back at once. I have never had 5K on the felt at once. The most I have ever had on a hand of anything was $750 and that was after a long string of consecutive wins and increasing my bet by roughly 50% after every win. (Started at $25). What caused me to get up was the pit boss decided to change dealers. So I colored up and left.

He specifically told me that, he did not value the chips the same way he did in the past-without them being on markers. I have to say, he is intelligent, has a very successful large business and definitely has the assets. He knows he has to pay it and the part that sucks, is that he never had these kind of quick and repetitive loses with his FM/Cash, etc. One thing he was conscious of, after the fact each time (and not during) was he started playing bigger and faster and not toning it down to get through the swings or sit out, the way we always did. He said he also parlayed when losing rather than the way we always did together, which was parlay into the larger wagers with the win money.

" Casinos have mastered the art of temptation. A barrage of psychological and economic incentives are designed to part you from your money. Once you have have made a bet and lost some money, you have a greater motivation to continue betting in order to recover your losses. Unless you are extremely disciplined and stop betting, trying to recover a gambling loss can start a vicious cycle in which you keep losing against the casino. "

http://www.scientificpsychic.com/workbook/gambling.html

Money is converted to "credits", tokens, or chips for gambling. This abstraction makes it harder to keep track of how much money has actually been lost. Once real money has been converted to play money, it takes significant mental effort and discipline to cash out, even after a win.

Quote: Baccaratfrom79

But the paper money got to him and it will hurt him to pay it back. Sad, very sad.

It's a combination of anger and panic and
even self loathing at some point. You're
so pissed at yourself for being so stupid
as to take out markers because you think
you're some kind of real gambler, that you
go a little nuts. Your emotional state overrides
your judgement. They say to never shop
for food when you're hungry. You should
never gamble when you're angry or desperate.

Pro's have no emotion attached to playing,
win or lose it's all the same to them. They
know from experience emotion is a waste of
time.

Quote: EvenBob

Pro's have no emotion attached to playing,
win or lose it's all the same to them. They
know from experience emotion is a waste of
time.

In absolutely no way whatsoever is that definitive in sports and in gambling. Just watch and one can see the anger present.

Quote: Baccaratfrom79

In absolutely no way whatsoever is that definitive in sports and in gambling. Just watch and one can see the anger present.

Successful gamblers are cold blooded. Don't confuse the acts with the facts. I have seen guys lose life changing money and simply shrug their shoulders. Just another day at the office, pool room, or race track.

I remember Johnny U. throwing a 40 yard touchdown pass to win a big game. He was walking off the field as the catch was made, his back turned. He had done his job.

Quote: Baccaratfrom79

In absolutely no way whatsoever is that definitive in sports and in gambling. Just watch and one can see the anger present.

Who said anything about sports. If you
think pro casino gamblers walk around
getting emotional all day, you'd be wrong.
It's just another job, who has the time
for emotion on the job. If you get angry
or upset, you don't understand the game
you're playing.

And there is John McEnroe, who claimed his anger made him great. LOL

So why did the guys who broke their cue sticks after losing, continue to suck ?

Quote: EvenBob

It's a combination of anger and panic and
even self loathing at some point. You're
so pissed at yourself for being so stupid
as to take out markers because you think
you're some kind of real gambler, that you
go a little nuts. Your emotional state overrides
your judgement. They say to never shop
for food when you're hungry. You should
never gamble when you're angry or desperate.

Pro's have no emotion attached to playing,
win or lose it's all the same to them. They
know from experience emotion is a waste of
time.

Very well put. If you see me at the blackjack table you will not be able to tell if I'm winning or losing. Being too stoic, however, can be a tip off to the pit. If you see me get emotional over a bet, rest assured that it's a cool, calculated act. It could even be an act within an act.

In poker, you have to sell your hand.

Quote: 1BB

Very well put. If you see me at the blackjack table you will not be able to tell if I'm winning or losing.

Look at Phil Ivy, he is stoic. The players
who get emotional at poker, it's just an
act to get under your skin. Chip Reese
said after a few years you just become
a robot, no thinking, no emotions. You
just play automatically because you've been
in every situation possible a hundred times.

Guess I am more in reality with the high limit rooms rather than the world of TV. My bad guys.

Gambling is like cab driving. You never know
how much you're going to make a day. Some
days in the summer you drive for nothing. If
you get emotional about making money, you
won't last a week. The advice I gave new
guys was, count how much you made at the
end of the month and you'll find you make
close to that month after month. Emotions
have no place in being a pro, you're in control
of the money, it's not in control of you.

I took a cab from the rental car place in Vegas
to DT last year. The lady driver said I was the
3rd fare she'd had all day, and her shift was
almost over. Just like gambling, it's a random
job and some days the variance just isn't in
your favor.

I find it harder to bet more when I am losing so I usually end up just drinking and finding other things to do then keep gambling. I hate gambling angry or upset I usually wait till I am excited to start gambling after a loss. I chased when I was younger like early 20's but lesson learned. Keep it fun!