Dirty Chips
With our previous currency, metal coins, they always stayed very shiny and clean looking. The new clay chips are now a bit grimy and we're looking in to methods/products to clean and disinfect them. One system I am looking at cost about 10K and that is hard to justify having events only about 10-20 days per-year. http://www.tcsjohnhuxley.com/en/live-gaming/utilities/chip-washer-mini-system.html
This got me to thinking...I wonder how often a casino cleans and disinfects their chips? If you were to ask them, I would bet they would not give you an answer. Literally tens of thousands of thousands of people handle these chip each and every day and they have to be a breeding ground for germs and transmittable diseases, let alone grungy, oily and dirty. I'm sure many of you here have horror stories to share surrounding this subject.
If anybody here has any insight as how chips are cleaned at a casino and how often, please share. Thanks.
This varies greatly by casinos of course. Some casino's never clean them and some clean them just as needed. I wouldn't worry about cleaning yours unless some of them were really bad.
here are a few links
http://oldvegaschips.com/chipcleaning.htm
http://www.tcsjohnhuxley.com/en/live-gaming/utilities/chip-washer.html
http://casinochipsworld.com/chips-cleaning.htm
Quote: GWAEHi Riva
This varies greatly by casinos of course. Some casino's never clean them and some clean them just as needed. I wouldn't worry about cleaning yours unless some of them were really bad.
here are a few links
http://oldvegaschips.com/chipcleaning.htm
http://www.tcsjohnhuxley.com/en/live-gaming/utilities/chip-washer.html
http://casinochipsworld.com/chips-cleaning.htm
Thanks.
I am intrigued by the ultrasonic cleaning process. We have about 40,000 chips so, individually hand cleaning is not an option--even if only done once a year or so.
TCSjohnhuxley will only deal with casinos and not some small potatoes outfit like us. However, the 3 different chemicals they use with their "system" is available from other sources and I believe that, at the end of the day, that is the most important part. Ultrasonic cleaners are available from a zillion sources.
Quote: DeucekiesGo to your hardware store and pick up some Trisodium Phosphate detergent. Fill two buckets with hot water, and put one cup of TSP in one of them. Wash 100-300 chips at a time in the TSP, transfer to the rinse bucket, and hand dry with towels. This is the method the casino where I work uses, and it works like a charm. I can't imagine many casinos doing it a more costly way.
Wouldn't a common household [or commercial] dishwasher work? That by the way is how I use to wash my baseball hats.
Quote: petroglyphQuote: DeucekiesGo to your hardware store and pick up some Trisodium Phosphate detergent. Fill two buckets with hot water, and put one cup of TSP in one of them. Wash 100-300 chips at a time in the TSP, transfer to the rinse bucket, and hand dry with towels. This is the method the casino where I work uses, and it works like a charm. I can't imagine many casinos doing it a more costly way.
Wouldn't a common household [or commercial] dishwasher work? That by the way is how I use to wash my baseball hats.
The heat in the "dry" cycle might be too much for the plastic based compounds in the chips, as well as the sealant over the center inserts. Be very careful if you go this route.
Quote: AyecarumbaQuote: petroglyphQuote: DeucekiesGo to your hardware store and pick up some Trisodium Phosphate detergent. Fill two buckets with hot water, and put one cup of TSP in one of them. Wash 100-300 chips at a time in the TSP, transfer to the rinse bucket, and hand dry with towels. This is the method the casino where I work uses, and it works like a charm. I can't imagine many casinos doing it a more costly way.
Wouldn't a common household [or commercial] dishwasher work? That by the way is how I use to wash my baseball hats.
The heat in the "dry" cycle might be too much for the plastic based compounds in the chips, as well as the sealant over the center inserts. Be very careful if you go this route.
I was thinking start with say ten or so of the 1 chips not the whole 40 large? Good call on the dry cycle maybe turn that off?
It would be tricky to keep them from blowing all over the inside of the washer. They would need to be in some sort of permeable container. To me, Deucekies TSP method is the best suggestion so far. With two or three bucket stations running simultaneously, you should be able to finish all 40k in half a day. (Given that you have enough paper towels on hand). If you want to splurge, do the final rinse in distilled water to cut down on the spotting.Quote: GWAECan you use it to just wash with no dry cycle and then air dry them. Also I would doubt that you would need to wash all 40k.
With the right tools, you could build your own "shaker" table, to agitate the buckets of chips covered in water and TSP for much less than the $10k you've been quoted for an, "Ultrasonic" system. Heck, you could just throw the filled buckets in the back of an old pick-up and run them around the block a few times, or leave a bucket on top of your washing machine with an unbalanced load in the spin cycle, for the same "sonic" effect.
Quote: GWAECan you use it to just wash with no dry cycle and then air dry them. Also I would doubt that you would need to wash all 40k.
I don't think it's the dry cycle that's the enemy. Rather, a dishwasher, by design, is a very aggressive cleaning appliance, as it should be. Plus, it operates at "near boiling" temps during the wash cycle. Not good for some chip surfaces. http://i62.tinypic.com/2i8yux5.jpg
Frankly, with all this Ebola noise going around, I am curious why any/every casino anywhere does not slug in the tag-line: "all chips washed and disinfected every 24 hours". Think about it.
I'm pretty sure it's because they would have to wash and disinfect them... heheQuote: Riva...Frankly, with all this Ebola noise going around, I am curious why any/every casino anywhere does not slug in the tag-line: "all chips washed and disinfected every 24 hours"...
Quote: AyecarumbaI'm pretty sure it's because they would have to wash and disinfect them... hehe
If there was a "mini tie-breaker" between going to "Casino A" and "Casino B" and, "Casino A", all things being equal, said that they wash and disinfect their chips every 24 hours, that could tip me to spend my money there.
Conversely, as a non-profit, making the same kind of grandiose statement, could make people think...."why on Earth would they be making a statement like that?" and avoid the place.
As for TSP, it would be a really good cleaner but it is really hard on the inserts. I wouldn't do it very very often or you will be replacing chips. As a collector of chips, I would never wash them in it. When I wash my chips I put a little bit of dawn in with warm water. I take a soft bristle tooth brush and dip it in the water and scrub the chip gently. Then I put the chip dry and let it air dry standing up over night. I can imagine it would take about a year to do 20k chips.
You said you have 3500 volunteers; you could knock this out in an evening with 20 of them. Buy the pizza and beer and go for it.
Quote: beachbumbabsIf it were me, I'd be doing the Girl Scout thing with "ditty bags". Net drawstring bags about 12-14" square (easy and cheap to make) with 300-500 chips/bag, dipped in a mixture of Dawn and clothes detergent (gentle amount) and warm water, then dip in hot weak bleach, then final dip in warm clear water. Agitate them in each bucket (not just a swish, but light rub handfuls of chips thru the net), to get the chip faces exposed. No soaking; you're just after surface dirt, and they are clay. Dump out onto old beach towels and hand dry.
You said you have 3500 volunteers; you could knock this out in an evening with 20 of them. Buy the pizza and beer and go for it.
Security is a concern with too many "helpers". Checks and balances mean this is a job that can't be done by just one person either. I think six folks, and an independent verification of the count before and after the cleaning should be able to do it in a day.
The best way is a bucket of TSP water and a bucket of rinse water. Works like a charm
I work in small card rooms and we wash them by hand. We buy a cleanser meant for chips and put it in a bucket. Then we dunk about 100-300 chips in the bucket and scrub/mix them around with a toilet brush for a few minutes. Then dump the chips out on towels and hand dry them. We use an smaller bucket with holes drilled in the bottom to hold the chips so when we pull it out, the cleanser stays in the original bucket. It is usually good for 7-10 washes (depending on how dirty your chips are).
We have to go through about 3-4 of the gallons of cleanser and it takes a team of 3-4 people about 2-3 hours to finish it up, but it is a lot cheaper than paying someone else to do it.
Dishwashers are tough because once the chips get wet they tend to stick together, which is why we scrub/mix them around with the toilet brush.
Takes some elbow grease, but it works. We do this for our supply of 30,000-40,000 chips. Just do it in smaller sections and verify the count prior to and after cleaning each section.
Are the real chips cleaner than the counterfeit chips or do they all match?Quote: RivaA few years ago, we purchased new chips for our fundraising events. They are casino quality and have the school logo and other graphics printed on them. They are VERY nice however, it was no small investment. And, when not in use, they are kept in a remote storage room that requires two different keys to access. No one individual has both keys. http://i58.tinypic.com/j9nd5h.jpg
With our previous currency, metal coins, they always stayed very shiny and clean looking. The new clay chips are now a bit grimy and we're looking in to methods/products to clean and disinfect them. One system I am looking at cost about 10K and that is hard to justify having events only about 10-20 days per-year. http://www.tcsjohnhuxley.com/en/live-gaming/utilities/chip-washer-mini-system.html
This got me to thinking...I wonder how often a casino cleans and disinfects their chips? If you were to ask them, I would bet they would not give you an answer. Literally tens of thousands of thousands of people handle these chip each and every day and they have to be a breeding ground for germs and transmittable diseases, let alone grungy, oily and dirty. I'm sure many of you here have horror stories to share surrounding this subject.
If anybody here has any insight as how chips are cleaned at a casino and how often, please share. Thanks.
I bet you lose 2k in EV per night due to shenanigans.
No Video surveillance = Rampant easy 3 rd rate cheating, any 1 day practiced armature can do. No doubt some people feel they are justified(Robin Hood) due to your horrible raping odds of charitable type people.
I would hire a team to secretly show you how easy any average Joe can swindle you.
Quote: RivaIf anybody here has any insight as how chips are cleaned at a casino and how often, please share. Thanks.
I see it all the time when a player gets a cut on their hand and might have bled on the chips. (I see a dealer doing this maybe every 6 weeks or so, but this is out in the hinterlands.)
First, they take a white plastic garbage bag, and spread it over the table so the felt doesn't get soaked.
Then, the dealer gloves up.
Someone brings a bucket of warm water with bleach over, and the chips get counted and dunked and sloshed around, then spread out to dry, then recounted, and re-racked.
I bought a few cartons of retired casino chips. They were filthy. 40-50 at a time into a smallish (1 quart, maybe) bucket with warm (or hot) water and a small squirt of Dawn dish soap, agitate for as long as I felt necessary, then rinse, then spread on a bath towel.
Quote: AxelWolfAre the real chips cleaner than the counterfeit chips or do they all match?
I bet you lose 2k in EV per night due to shenanigans.
No Video surveillance = Rampant easy 3 rd rate cheating, any 1 day practiced armature can do. No doubt some people feel they are justified(Robin Hood) due to your horrible raping odds of charitable type people.
I would hire a team to secretly show you how easy any average Joe can swindle you.
Someone is going to go through a lot of expense printing up a copy-cat a set of our chips. To begin with, most are in $1-$5 denominations and the $10 chips only come out if they are needed. Plus, each chip has the school logo burnt in plus a hologram. Then, we have a $500 cap on winnings per-night. Hardly worth it.
We know that people cheat. Perhaps the biggest weakness is the volunteer dealers making goof-ball mistakes. That's why they only have the barest amount of chips in their tray at any one time. Plus, they are rotated every 30 minutes.
Even if someone skims us for a couple of hundred or so, we look at the final tally and say it was a good night if we made any profit--which we ALWAYS do.
Quote: DJTeddyBearHere's an idea. Are you a regular at your local casino? If so, talk to one of the foreman, explain your situation, etc. Ask if they'll wash your chips. You never know. Worst that will happen is you wasted two minutes asking.
Not a bad idea however, all the local (Detroit) casinos will not do a thing for you charity-wise, if the goods or services are even remotely connected with under-age persons. Of course, our students are all minors.
Actually, I think that I have this thing solved.....
There are local places that rent ultrasonic cleaners. I can purchase all the chemicals that tcsjohnhuxley offers from other sources. Some night this winter, I'll recruit some volunteers, get a few cases of beer and a dozen pizzas and we'll have a chip cleaning party down at the school. :)
yes I doubt people are chip scamming you much.Quote: RivaSomeone is going to go through a lot of expense printing up a copy-cat a set of our chips. To begin with, most are in $1-$5 denominations and the $10 chips only come out if they are needed. Plus, each chip has the school logo burnt in plus a hologram. Then, we have a $500 cap on winnings per-night. Hardly worth it.
We know that people cheat. Perhaps the biggest weakness is the volunteer dealers making goof-ball mistakes. That's why they only have the barest amount of chips in their tray at any one time. Plus, they are rotated every 30 minutes.
Even if someone skims us for a couple of hundred or so, we look at the final tally and say it was a good night if we made any profit--which we ALWAYS do.
As for Cheating at roulette I bet its happening often and for more than you think..
Quote: AxelWolfyes I doubt people are chip scamming you much.
As for Cheating at roulette I bet its happening often and for more than you think..
AxelWolf...you now have my antennae up. Please share how people may be cheating on us in roulette. I'm serious.
We have 2, 20' roulette tables. Each table is made up of 2, 10' sections. There is a layout on each side, right and left. The wheel (32") rests in the middle between each layout. Each table is manned by 3 people: a person in the middle who spins the wheel and makes the calls. They also muck chips between spins.
Then, there is a dealer directly parked over each layout right and left. They hover over their respective layout like it was a their own wallet laying there. If anybody tried to drag a bet and/or past-post, it's almost sure to be seen.
And, as far as dealer/player collusion...the people are, for the most part, volunteers and, have children that attend this parochial school. For what benefit?. Again, we have a $500 cap on winnings per-night. Jilted wheel? No way. Unbalanced wheel? Perhaps.
So, somebody scams us for $100. No big deal. The room cleared $25,000 for the night. If I put the hammer down on the games, would I then make $27,400?
Look at the big picture. Just to get in to the room, 1,000 people have to fork over $5 each. That's 5k. We make 30%-40% on each dollar wagered, with a $15k cap. That's another 8K. Then there's beer and pizza with a net per-body, per-night of another $20. That's $20,000. Grand total; $45K per-night, no overhead, clear profit. What am I missing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l48P86a2QOQQuote: RivaAxelWolf...you now have my antennae up. Please share how people may be cheating on us in roulette. I'm serious.
We have 2, 20' roulette tables. Each table is made up of 2, 10' sections. There is a layout on each side, right and left. The wheel (32") rests in the middle between each layout. Each table is manned by 3 people: a person in the middle who spins the wheel and makes the calls. They also muck chips between spins.
Then, there is a dealer directly parked over each layout right and left. They hover over their respective layout like it was a their own wallet laying there. If anybody tried to drag a bet and/or past-post, it's almost sure to be seen.
And, as far as dealer/player collusion...the people are, for the most part, volunteers and, have children that attend this parochial school. For what benefit?. Again, we have a $500 cap on winnings per-night. Jilted wheel? No way. Unbalanced wheel? Perhaps.
So, somebody scams us for $100. No big deal. The room cleared $25,000 for the night. If I put the hammer down on the games, would I then make $27,400?
Look at the big picture. Just to get in to the room, 1,000 people have to fork over $5 each. That's 5k. We make 30%-40% on each dollar wagered, with a $15k cap. That's another 8K. Then there's beer and pizza with a net per-body, per-night of another $20. That's $20,000. Grand total; $45K per-night, no overhead, clear profit. What am I missing?
A few guys doing this could be costing you a half a mill per year.
Quote: RivaAxelWolf...you now have my antennae up. Please share how people may be cheating on us in roulette. I'm serious.
We have 2, 20' roulette tables. Each table is made up of 2, 10' sections. There is a layout on each side, right and left. The wheel (32") rests in the middle between each layout. Each table is manned by 3 people: a person in the middle who spins the wheel and makes the calls. They also muck chips between spins.
Then, there is a dealer directly parked over each layout right and left. They hover over their respective layout like it was a their own wallet laying there. If anybody tried to drag a bet and/or past-post, it's almost sure to be seen.
And, as far as dealer/player collusion...the people are, for the most part, volunteers and, have children that attend this parochial school. For what benefit?. Again, we have a $500 cap on winnings per-night. Jilted wheel? No way. Unbalanced wheel? Perhaps.
So, somebody scams us for $100. No big deal. The room cleared $25,000 for the night. If I put the hammer down on the games, would I then make $27,400?
Look at the big picture. Just to get in to the room, 1,000 people have to fork over $5 each. That's 5k. We make 30%-40% on each dollar wagered, with a $15k cap. That's another 8K. Then there's beer and pizza with a net per-body, per-night of another $20. That's $20,000. Grand total; $45K per-night, no overhead, clear profit. What am I missing?
There really seems to be no downside to attempting to cheat, as you could only kick people out and it would be very difficult to bring charges without video evidence. The thing is, you can't even calculate how much you are losing to cheating/collusion/mispays. Hire a couple plainclothes guys to observe for just one night and see if you snap anyone off. A team of two guys that can win $1000/night can crush you. Even more if they recruit accomplices to cash chips. If you can just set up cheap cameras to record the layouts it would be a good investment.
You could alternatively find a friend who is a professional magician/cheat and have him "mystery shop" the games and see how much he can make off with (returning it at the end), although this may not be legally feasible. I have physically been looking directly at people who are past posting, knowing they are cheating, and not being able to see the move.
Anyways, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, etc. Some people will never be convinced that putting a tiny percentage of your win towards game protection is worth it. You might just try reaching out to some surveillance directors in your local area, telling them you are a charity, and asking for off the record advice.
Quote: RivaIf anybody here has any insight as how chips are cleaned at a casino and how often, please share. Thanks.
Before working as a dealer I used to have allergies and hay-fever all summer and colds all winter ... after a few years I became immune to point blank chemical weapons it seams .. lol .. I'm thinking this has a direct link to all teeny-tiny creepy-crawleys on chips and money!
I've asked before but never really got a straight answer .. I'd guess it was a little like currency where they simply destroy and replace. But that's a total guess! lol
