Illinois "slot machines" in bars
Quote: TranscendThey are VLTs correct? So playing them is a bad idea correct?
They actually call them "Video Gaming Terminals" (VGTs) because the lottery does not run the game. Regardless of the name, the games are all RNG-driven just like in Vegas and Illinois riverboats. So slots and video poker act exactly the same.
The technical standards of Illinois VGTs may be found here:
http://www.igb.illinois.gov/VideoGaming/Technical%20Standards%20for%20Video%20Gaming%20Terminals%20in%20IL%20v1.3.pdf
But with video poker, the game is usually has lower pay tables than I would like. The law capping a win at $500 hurts the game too since a royal with 5 quarters bet is usually $1000. Also I wouldn't recommend playing VP for more than 5 quarters because of this payout cap. The best video poker I have found so far is 7/5 Super Aces Bonus (97.61% 1-coin; 97.92% 5-Coin). I've found it on IGT games in multiple locations.
Lately, the overall return of these games (includes both slots and video poker; heavily weighted by slots because penny slots are the most popular games) is about 92%. The riverboats are closer to 91% right now. The biggest drawback to the "bar games" though is that they don't have loyalty programs usually (it is legal for them to have such a setup though) and the atmosphere is nothing close to an actual riverboat.
Quote: tringlomaneThey actually call them "Video Gaming Terminals" (VGTs) because the lottery does not run the game. Regardless of the name, the games are all RNG-driven just like in Vegas and Illinois riverboats. So slots and video poker act exactly the same.
The technical standards of Illinois VGTs may be found here:
http://www.igb.illinois.gov/VideoGaming/Technical%20Standards%20for%20Video%20Gaming%20Terminals%20in%20IL%20v1.3.pdf
But with video poker, the game is usually has lower pay tables than I would like. The law capping a win at $500 hurts the game too since a royal with 5 quarters bet is usually $1000. Also I wouldn't recommend playing VP for more than 5 quarters because of this payout cap. The best video poker I have found so far is 7/5 Super Aces Bonus (97.61% 1-coin; 97.92% 5-Coin). I've found it on IGT games in multiple locations.
Lately, the overall return of these games (includes both slots and video poker; heavily weighted by slots because penny slots are the most popular games) is about 92%. The riverboats are closer to 91% right now. The biggest drawback to the "bar games" though is that they don't have loyalty programs usually (it is legal for them to have such a setup though) and the atmosphere is nothing close to an actual riverboat.
I was hoping you would reply, thanks for the wealth of information on the VGTs. So it sounds like if I find a good game one credit might be my best bet on it? Also do you know of any recourse if the bar 86s the machine so they don't have to pay out?
Quote: TranscendI was hoping you would reply, thanks for the wealth of information on the VGTs. So it sounds like if I find a good game one credit might be my best bet on it? Also do you know of any recourse if the bar 86s the machine so they don't have to pay out?
Well, one credit pays very similar to five credits for video poker by percentage, and since the games are all negative longterm, I usually just play 7/5 Super Aces for 1 quarter when I briefly play these things when I visit the Chicagoland area. I haven't found a game that's positive, and it's doubtful you ever will. It's against the law for any machine to be > 100% in the long-term. So the only way a game could possibly be positive is if they put a progressive slot game on the units, which I don't think I have found so far.
And I'm not sure what exactly you mean by the latter question. Are you saying when a malfunction in the machine occurs, so they have an issue in paying you? Unfortunately this is probably a more fuzzy area, and resolution of the problem will be a lot more difficult/time intensive than at the riverboats because the bar employees there will be ill-equipped to fix the problem, and will likely have to call the VGT manufacturer to have one of their employees to be sent out to fix the problem. I would assume you would eventually get paid, but I dunno how long it would take. Fortunately, I have never seen a unit malfunction in my limited play on these things so far.
If the bar literally gets rid of their video gaming terminals (has any bar actually done this yet??), then I would expect they would still have to honor any vouchers until their expiration dates. Here is the relative law for this scenario: http://ilga.gov/commission/jcar/admincode/011/011018000N14200R.html
Quote: tringlomaneWell, one credit pays very similar to five credits for video poker by percentage, and since the games are all negative longterm, I usually just play 7/5 Super Aces for 1 quarter when I briefly play these things when I visit the Chicagoland area. I haven't found a game that's positive, and it's doubtful you ever will. It's against the law for any machine to be > 100% in the long-term. So the only way a game could possibly be positive is if they put a progressive slot game on the units, which I don't think I have found so far.
And I'm not sure what exactly you mean by the latter question. Are you saying when a malfunction in the machine occurs, so they have an issue in paying you? Unfortunately this is probably a more fuzzy area, and resolution of the problem will be a lot more difficult/time intensive than at the riverboats because the bar employees there will be ill-equipped to fix the problem, and will likely have to call the VGT manufacturer to have one of their employees to be sent out to fix the problem. I would assume you would eventually get paid, but I dunno how long it would take. Fortunately, I have never seen a unit malfunction in my limited play on these things so far.
If the bar literally gets rid of their video gaming terminals (has any bar actually done this yet??), then I would expect they would still have to honor any vouchers until their expiration dates. Here is the relative law for this scenario: http://ilga.gov/commission/jcar/admincode/011/011018000N14200R.html
My friend was playing at a bar and hit a couple hundred dollar jackpot, the owner not wanting to pay it out unplugged the bank of machines.
Quote: TranscendMy friend was playing at a bar and hit a couple hundred dollar jackpot, the owner not wanting to pay it out unplugged the bank of machines.
LOL wow. I would have immediately called the phone number on the sign that should be posted on the outside of every gaming area. The game result would be stored in memory for awhile. If this happened last night though, I'm not sure as the minimum requirement is only 10 games of recall (but it could be able to store more). I'd still call this number if I was him. And of course, never play, eat, or drink there again.
http://www.igb.illinois.gov/VideoGaming/VGSignRequirements.pdf
Illinois Gaming Board Hotline: 1-855-494-0237
Quote: tringlomaneLOL wow. I would have immediately called the phone number on the sign that should be posted on the outside of every gaming area. The game result would be stored in memory for awhile. If this happened last night though, I'm not sure as the minimum requirement is only 10 games of recall (but it could be able to store more). I'd still call this number if I was him. And of course, never play, eat, or drink there again.
http://www.igb.illinois.gov/VideoGaming/VGSignRequirements.pdf
Illinois Gaming Board Hotline: 1-855-494-0237
He called when it happened, this was about a month ago, though I don't know what exactly came of it. Pretty sure they ended up kicking him out by the end of everything because he was obviously irate. I'm just debating going there and trying my luck and see if the owner is stupid enough to do it again. The bar is literally a minute from my house and I wouldn't mind seeing what I can do with $100 there
Quote: TranscendHe called when it happened, this was about a month ago, though I don't know what exactly came of it. Pretty sure they ended up kicking him out by the end of everything because he was obviously irate. I'm just debating going there and trying my luck and see if the owner is stupid enough to do it again. The bar is literally a minute from my house and I wouldn't mind seeing what I can do with $100 there
I'd probably get kicked out too at some point if it happened to me. And I would probably ask what happened with your friend first. If he didn't get paid, then you're really, really gambling. I have a bad feeling the owner cashed the machine out after the bar was empty. Also if the owner didn't get punished either, then it's definitely possible he'd do it again. I would drive further just to avoid playing there; there are like 5 bars within 5 minutes of my g/f's parents' house for example. But if you still decide to play there, make sure you cashout any sizable hit immediately, and ideally play when the owner wasn't looking. The game I typically play pays $100 for 4 Aces if you bet a quarter. $500 if you bet $1.25, so he would definitely have an incentive to screw me over if he thought he could get away with it.
Quote: tringlomaneI'd probably get kicked out too at some point if it happened to me. And I would probably ask what happened with your friend first. If he didn't get paid, then you're really, really gambling. I have a bad feeling the owner cashed the machine out after the bar was empty. Also if the owner didn't get punished either, then it's definitely possible he'd do it again. I would drive further just to avoid playing there; there are like 5 bars within 5 minutes of my g/f's parents' house for example. But if you still decide to play there, make sure you cashout any sizable hit immediately, and ideally play when the owner wasn't looking. The game I typically play pays $100 for 4 Aces if you bet a quarter. $500 if you bet $1.25, so he would definitely have an incentive to screw me over if he thought he could get away with it.
I have a casino within 15 minutes of where I live I am more going to see if he would really do it again and if he does make sure he gets punished for it. The bar in question is a terrible place that draws a terrible crowd. It is the worst...but if I can take money from it I will and if he wants to pull some shady business, I won't let it happen. I will have to check out what games they have and see what the best pay table is, hopefully they have the one you speak of and I can hit a nice 4 aces and see how they handle it.
2.4.2 Odds of Winning
a) For line up games, the game must calculate the odds of winning anything with all lines
wagered and display that odds value to the player on-screen. The display is ONLY required for
wagered spins.
. The odds of winning must be displayed on-screen to the player.
b) For poker themes, the game must indicate the odds adjacent to each winning hand
displayed in the paytable, assuming a wager of one credit and using an optimal or near optimal
strategy.)
If one of you in Illinois could take a picture of this I would be interested in seeing how they display it for slot games and poker games.
Quote: DRichAccording to the regulations:
2.4.2 Odds of Winning
a) For line up games, the game must calculate the odds of winning anything with all lines
wagered and display that odds value to the player on-screen. The display is ONLY required for
wagered spins.
. The odds of winning must be displayed on-screen to the player.
b) For poker themes, the game must indicate the odds adjacent to each winning hand
displayed in the paytable, assuming a wager of one credit and using an optimal or near optimal
strategy.)
If one of you in Illinois could take a picture of this I would be interested in seeing how they display it for slot games and poker games.
Next time I go I will see what I can do
Quote: DRichAccording to the regulations:
2.4.2 Odds of Winning
a) For line up games, the game must calculate the odds of winning anything with all lines
wagered and display that odds value to the player on-screen. The display is ONLY required for
wagered spins.
. The odds of winning must be displayed on-screen to the player.
b) For poker themes, the game must indicate the odds adjacent to each winning hand
displayed in the paytable, assuming a wager of one credit and using an optimal or near optimal
strategy.)
If one of you in Illinois could take a picture of this I would be interested in seeing how they display it for slot games and poker games.
For VP, it's buried in the help screen, but with it you could theoretically calculate the 1-coin optimal return without the aid of useful calculators such as JB's. For slots, it's usually written in the top left corner, but the hit rate is somewhat a worthless stat anyway.
But, nevertheless, pictures always make things more fun, Transcend. :) (I won't be in Illinois until next month at the minimum most likely). If you do play, hit his machines for something big! :D
Quote: TranscendMy friend was playing at a bar and hit a couple hundred dollar jackpot, the owner not wanting to pay it out unplugged the bank of machines.
If that happened to me, I'd be hopping over that counter in a second.
